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Anorak

Europa League 19/20

By Anorak, in General Football and Sport

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Dan LCFC

Dan LCFC

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

Poor Harry. What did he say after they beat us ? “Big players show up for big games”.

 

 

What did he say after nearly every time we lost here as well? Didn't get what we deserved lol remember when he put it after we lost 4-2 at Bournemouth and ended up taking it down.

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Manwell Pablo

Manwell Pablo

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, don_danbury said:

yeah we judge by one single match. ok then

Well yeah of course we do, It’s the one match that knocked them out, if the competition is fixed so they win it they don’t go out with two plausible penalties being turned away and a goal given against them that shouldn’t of stood do they.

 

But the competition isn’t fixed so they win it, just like the premier league wasn’t fixed. As I’ve said already if anyone thinks, legitimately, that Manchester United were paying people outside of the club to throw games the first person who should be under scrutiny is Kasper. Kicking the ball into your own player from a goal kick is far beyond any reffing negligence that has gone in their favour.

Edited by Manwell Pablo
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Vacamion

Vacamion

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Manwell Pablo said:

Well yeah of course we do, It’s the one match that knocked them out, if the competition is fixed so they win it they don’t go out with two plausible penalties being turned away and a goal given against them that shouldn’t of stood do they.

 

But the competition isn’t fixed so they win it, just like the premier league wasn’t fixed. As I’ve said already if anyone thinks, legitimately, that Manchester United were paying people outside of the club to throw games the first person who should be under scrutiny is Kasper. Kicking the ball into your own player from a goal kick is far beyond any reffing negligence that has gone in their favour.

 

By all means correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting a full blown conspiracy with money changing hands.

 

Man Utd do get a massive amount of penalties, though, many of them debatable.

 

It's not just people in here pointing it out.

 

"Penchester United" was trending on Twitter during the game. 

 

Some of it will be because Manchester United have more rapid players than most teams, who advance on goal quickly and overwhelm defenders.

 

Some of it will be because their bunch of utterly entitled overpaid spolit players are prone to cheat.  We saw Bruno Fernandes launch himself with no contact and then beat the ground in frustration when not awarded the penalty he expected. A disgraceful cheating incident which should have been booked.

 

I can imagine some of it might be pre Covid crowd influencing weak decision makers (again we saw how utterly entitled their fans and even their ex players appeared to be after the game).  Where a debatable decision is given in the ground, VAR ain't gonna overturn it as often as you'd expect and officials have been reluctant to go the VAR screen and review their own decisions.

 

I'm afraid some of it is poor officiating.  The penalty against Villa was utterly baffling and worrying.  It was a foul against the defender.  VAR had a chance to overturn a clear and obvious error and didn't do so.

 

All of this will provoke "big club bias" allegations.

 

Some in here will say "Aye aye, Fergie's behind the desk at Stockley Park" or whatever, but it's tongue in cheek.  I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting brown envelopes full of money etc.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Vacamion
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KingsX

KingsX

Posted
Posted (edited)

MUFC has been reduced to a business, defined solely by a culture of entitlement.  So why be outraged that the only media discussion about that club is what they are “entitled” to?

 

What else is there?  A style of football?  Excellence in recruitment, development, tactics, or defense, or attacking in open play?  To discuss MUFC is to fixate on entitlement.  There's not much else to talk about.  The only other things in the building are a dusty trophy room and the owners’ 24-7 cash machine.

 

Yes, it’s rich to have a sense of victimhood when you own the most expensive players and half of the refs.  But we can see it as a good thing, because it’s a loser’s mentality that has replaced the impetus to fight and improve.  Diving and whining are a loser’s recourse.  If this is what OGS has fostered in his captain and dressing room, good for the rest of us!

 

Edited by KingsX
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Nalis

Nalis

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, KingsX said:

MUFC has been reduced to a business, defined solely by a culture of entitlement.  So why be outraged that the only media discussion about that club is what they are “entitled” to?

 

What else is there?  A style of football?  Excellence in recruitment, development, tactics, or defense, or attacking in open play?  To discuss MUFC is to fixate on entitlement.  There's not much else to talk about.  The only other things in the building are a dusty trophy room and the owners’ 24-7 cash machine.

 

Yes, it’s rich to have a sense of victimhood when you own the most expensive players and half of the refs.  But we can see it as a good thing, because it’s a loser’s mentality that has replaced the impetus to fight and improve.  Diving and whining are a loser’s recourse.  If this is what OGS has fostered in his captain and dressing room, good for the rest of us!

 

Bit like how Arsenal's sole purpose these days is to look good on social media. YouTube players who dress like Neymar / Lewis Hamilton and do some sh it celebration from pop culture. Non flashy, solid players need not apply.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

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12 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

By all means correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting a full blown conspiracy with money changing hands.

 

Man Utd do get a massive amount of penalties, though, many of them debatable.

 

It's not just people in here pointing it out.

 

"Penchester United" was trending on Twitter during the game. 

 

Some of it will be because Manchester United have more rapid players than most teams, who advance on goal quickly and overwhelm defenders.

 

Some of it will be because their bunch of utterly entitled overpaid spolit players are prone to cheat.  We saw Bruno Fernandes launch himself with no contact and then beat the ground in frustration when not awarded the penalty he expected. A disgraceful cheating incident which should have been booked.

 

I can imagine some of it might be pre Covid crowd influencing weak decision makers (again we saw how utterly entitled their fans and even their ex players appeared to be after the game).  Where a debatable decision is given in the ground, VAR ain't gonna overturn it as often as you'd expect and officials have been reluctant to go the VAR screen and review their own decisions.

 

I'm afraid some of it is poor officiating.  The penalty against Villa was utterly baffling and worrying.  It was a foul against the defender.  VAR had a chance to overturn a clear and obvious error and didn't do so.

 

All of this will provoke "big club bias" allegations.

 

Some in here will say "Aye aye, Fergie's behind the desk at Stockley Park" or whatever, but it's tongue in cheek.  I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting brown envelopes full of money etc.

 

 

 

 

 

I've got to be honest, I'm pretty much the last person in the world to buy conspiracy theories. I'm so intensely cynical by nature that I end up distrusting everything but particularly the sort of beardy weirdos that pedal that shit. I'm sure EL Empty and Zingari are currently off somewhere all over social media ranting against 5G and that shit isn't for me. 

 

But sooner or later that sort of cynicism comes 360 and points back around at the established order too. 

 

We live in a world where major corporations left, right and centre are being exposed for fraudulent, profiteering practices. We've had pure fantasy fraud like Enron, we've had some of the biggest companies in the world like DuPont and Volkswagen lying about horrendous environment practices to skirt regulations. 

 

Then within the sport we've had match fixing scandals in Spain, Italy and Greece. We've had the literal president of FIFA, the highest ranked official in our entire sport arrested and ousted for corruption, yet somehow we're still having the world cup he sold in an oil state where the infrastructure is literally being built by slaves. 

 

Oh and Blatter's replacement is now also under criminal investigation. 

 

And remember that Independent article from earlier in the year, where a Premier League executive is quoted as uttering "we can't be having too many Leicester Cities."

 

When you consider the financial implications of Manchester United not being in European competition, not being in the Champions league, it's massive. Forget their own owners, they're relative paupers. Think of General Motors (who own Chevy), think of Adidas and what the two of those paid for and stand to make out of United shirts. 

 

Think of Gazprom, the Russian state owned fossil fuel giant that's the primary sponsor of the champions league, think of Sky, BT and every other international broadcaster and what they've paid for in rights, think of every company that pays to advertise on those channels and and how much it must cost just to air one advert during the Champions league final. 

 

Now think about how many people around the world identify as a United fan. Think bigger than old jokes about Sussex and Kent, think about as big as you can get. Delve in to soccer social media (don't actually it'll make you want to top yourself) and look at how many kids and grown adults around the world have drunk the Red Devils koolaid and worship the club like an actual religion. 

 

NOW go back and watch every penalty they've been given in their actual record breaking season, in the year they needed it the most, when it looked for all the world like - without the penalties - this might actually have been a real mid table finish. Look at how VAR, what should have been the great equaliser, was used this year. Look at how "clear and obvious" has been used as an excuse to keep backing up the same big club bias we hoped it would get rid of. 

 

If you can do all of that and still not entertain the idea of metaphorical envelopes of cash changing hands I honestly think you're naive. 

 

I'm not asking you to believe the game is fixed, I'm not asking you to believe that the sport is entirely corrupt and its all predcided and there's no point us following it anymore. I get that in the heat of the moment some of us probably get carried away getting angry at the Penchester United stuff and that it can seem hysterical. I don't even know what I actually believe, really. I don't know far I think it goes or what IT even is. 

 

But I am asking people to use some common sense and keep an open mind. Be cynical from time to time and not so quick to trust "the establishment" just because it pains you to question if maybe the sport we love is dirty.

 

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Dan LCFC

Dan LCFC

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Nalis said:

Bit like how Arsenal's sole purpose these days is to look good on social media. YouTube players who dress like Neymar / Lewis Hamilton and do some sh it celebration from pop culture. Non flashy, solid players need not apply.

Funny how they do this and then go and undo it all by letting their staff go as they sign Chelsea's latest relic.

 

FWIW I do agree with you.

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Dan LCFC

Dan LCFC

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've got to be honest, I'm pretty much the last person in the world to buy conspiracy theories. I'm so intensely cynical by nature that I end up distrusting everything but particularly the sort of beardy weirdos that pedal that shit. I'm sure EL Empty and Zingari are currently off somewhere all over social media ranting against 5G and that shit isn't for me. 

 

But sooner or later that sort of cynicism comes 360 and points back around at the established order too. 

 

We live in a world where major corporations left, right and centre are being exposed for fraudulent, profiteering practices. We've had pure fantasy fraud like Enron, we've had some of the biggest companies in the world like DuPont and Volkswagen lying about horrendous environment practices to skirt regulations. 

 

Then within the sport we've had match fixing scandals in Spain, Italy and Greece. We've had the literal president of FIFA, the highest ranked official in our entire sport arrested and ousted for corruption, yet somehow we're still having the world cup he sold in an oil state where the infrastructure is literally being built by slaves. 

 

Oh and Blatter's replacement is now also under criminal investigation. 

 

And remember that Independent article from earlier in the year, where a Premier League executive is quoted as uttering "we can't be having too many Leicester Cities."

 

When you consider the financial implications of Manchester United not being in European competition, not being in the Champions league, it's massive. Forget their own owners, they're relative paupers. Think of General Motors (who own Chevy), think of Adidas and what the two of those paid for and stand to make out of United shirts. 

 

Think of Gazprom, the Russian state owned fossil fuel giant that's the primary sponsor of the champions league, think of Sky, BT and every other international broadcaster and what they've paid for in rights, think of every company that pays to advertise on those channels and and how much it must cost just to air one advert during the Champions league final. 

 

Now think about how many people around the world identify as a United fan. Think bigger than old jokes about Sussex and Kent, think about as big as you can get. Delve in to soccer social media (don't actually it'll make you want to top yourself) and look at how many kids and grown adults around the world have drunk the Red Devils koolaid and worship the club like an actual religion. 

 

NOW go back and watch every penalty they've been given in their actual record breaking season, in the year they needed it the most, when it looked for all the world like - without the penalties - this might actually have been a real mid table finish. Look at how VAR, what should have been the great equaliser, was used this year. Look at how "clear and obvious" has been used as an excuse to keep backing up the same big club bias we hoped it would get rid of. 

 

If you can do all of that and still not entertain the idea of metaphorical envelopes of cash changing hands I honestly think you're naive. 

 

I'm not asking you to believe the game is fixed, I'm not asking you to believe that the sport is entirely corrupt and its all predcided and there's no point us following it anymore. I get that in the heat of the moment some of us probably get carried away getting angry at the Penchester United stuff and that it can seem hysterical. I don't even know what I actually believe, really. I don't know far I think it goes or what IT even is. 

 

But I am asking people to use some common sense and keep an open mind. Be cynical from time to time and not so quick to trust "the establishment" just because it pains you to question if maybe the sport we love is dirty.

 

Lovely stuff. Basically everything I think but written far better than I could've possibly written it. 

 

I'd also add in the fact that the game is likely to be having a quite relative tough time in terms of money as well given the pandemic, even more reason to get Manchester United back in the Champions League.

 

I'm convinced them getting back into the CL was rigged. Absolutely sure of it. Fingers crossed it comes out one day. I'm not buying this bullshit.

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Vacamion

Vacamion

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've got to be honest, I'm pretty much the last person in the world to buy conspiracy theories. I'm so intensely cynical by nature that I end up distrusting everything but particularly the sort of beardy weirdos that pedal that shit. I'm sure EL Empty and Zingari are currently off somewhere all over social media ranting against 5G and that shit isn't for me. 

 

But sooner or later that sort of cynicism comes 360 and points back around at the established order too. 

 

We live in a world where major corporations left, right and centre are being exposed for fraudulent, profiteering practices. We've had pure fantasy fraud like Enron, we've had some of the biggest companies in the world like DuPont and Volkswagen lying about horrendous environment practices to skirt regulations. 

 

Then within the sport we've had match fixing scandals in Spain, Italy and Greece. We've had the literal president of FIFA, the highest ranked official in our entire sport arrested and ousted for corruption, yet somehow we're still having the world cup he sold in an oil state where the infrastructure is literally being built by slaves. 

 

Oh and Blatter's replacement is now also under criminal investigation. 

 

And remember that Independent article from earlier in the year, where a Premier League executive is quoted as uttering "we can't be having too many Leicester Cities."

 

When you consider the financial implications of Manchester United not being in European competition, not being in the Champions league, it's massive. Forget their own owners, they're relative paupers. Think of General Motors (who own Chevy), think of Adidas and what the two of those paid for and stand to make out of United shirts. 

 

Think of Gazprom, the Russian state owned fossil fuel giant that's the primary sponsor of the champions league, think of Sky, BT and every other international broadcaster and what they've paid for in rights, think of every company that pays to advertise on those channels and and how much it must cost just to air one advert during the Champions league final. 

 

Now think about how many people around the world identify as a United fan. Think bigger than old jokes about Sussex and Kent, think about as big as you can get. Delve in to soccer social media (don't actually it'll make you want to top yourself) and look at how many kids and grown adults around the world have drunk the Red Devils koolaid and worship the club like an actual religion. 

 

NOW go back and watch every penalty they've been given in their actual record breaking season, in the year they needed it the most, when it looked for all the world like - without the penalties - this might actually have been a real mid table finish. Look at how VAR, what should have been the great equaliser, was used this year. Look at how "clear and obvious" has been used as an excuse to keep backing up the same big club bias we hoped it would get rid of. 

 

If you can do all of that and still not entertain the idea of metaphorical envelopes of cash changing hands I honestly think you're naive. 

 

I'm not asking you to believe the game is fixed, I'm not asking you to believe that the sport is entirely corrupt and its all predcided and there's no point us following it anymore. I get that in the heat of the moment some of us probably get carried away getting angry at the Penchester United stuff and that it can seem hysterical. I don't even know what I actually believe, really. I don't know far I think it goes or what IT even is. 

 

But I am asking people to use some common sense and keep an open mind. Be cynical from time to time and not so quick to trust "the establishment" just because it pains you to question if maybe the sport we love is dirty.

 

 

Great post.

 

I agree that there is a lot of corruption out there and football has its fair share.

 

I also believe that any journo who could uncover it would have one hell of a story.

 

My point was mostly that Manwell Pablo appeared to be suggesting that some in here are in the tin foil hat brigade and I was pointing, in contrast, to other various reasons that penalties are given, whilst conceding that there have been some very ropey penalties awarded this season.

 

The other thing I would add is that I have learned over the years that very often Captain Cockup causes problems initially, then people stick to their guns and cover for themselves and their interests.  Maybe there's a bit of that, too.

 

Interesting stuff...

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UniFox21

UniFox21

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Was just about to mention this. 

How desperate were BT Sport that they had to rely on someone like him to be a pundit lol

 

 

Such a contrast between him and Owen Hargreaves, who can give a decent contribution. 

 

And when you think things can't get worse, Savage pops up

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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Ian Darke, where's that indignation when it's a player at a big English club trying to cheat to win?

Glad someone else mentioned it. Beat me to it. 

 

Heard nothing for Williams yesterday when it was very similar. Brush on the face, writhed round in agony. Up about 10 seconds later totally fine. 

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UniFox21

UniFox21

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Ian Darke, where's that indignation when it's a player at a big English club trying to cheat to win?

 

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Glad someone else mentioned it. Beat me to it. 

 

Heard nothing for Williams yesterday when it was very similar. Brush on the face, writhed round in agony. Up about 10 seconds later totally fine. 

Same thoughts here. We're hearing commentators show disgust for diving or play acting in these European Competitions, but nothing when it happens in the Prem or English sides. The hypocrisy is appauling. Savage laughing at how he used to do it made the whole thing worse

 

 

 

But brilliant header there. 

Edited by UniFox21
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Manwell Pablo

Manwell Pablo

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Vacamion said:

 

By all means correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting a full blown conspiracy with money changing hands.

 

Man Utd do get a massive amount of penalties, though, many of them debatable.

 

It's not just people in here pointing it out.

 

"Penchester United" was trending on Twitter during the game. 

 

Some of it will be because Manchester United have more rapid players than most teams, who advance on goal quickly and overwhelm defenders.

 

Some of it will be because their bunch of utterly entitled overpaid spolit players are prone to cheat.  We saw Bruno Fernandes launch himself with no contact and then beat the ground in frustration when not awarded the penalty he expected. A disgraceful cheating incident which should have been booked.

 

I can imagine some of it might be pre Covid crowd influencing weak decision makers (again we saw how utterly entitled their fans and even their ex players appeared to be after the game).  Where a debatable decision is given in the ground, VAR ain't gonna overturn it as often as you'd expect and officials have been reluctant to go the VAR screen and review their own decisions.

 

I'm afraid some of it is poor officiating.  The penalty against Villa was utterly baffling and worrying.  It was a foul against the defender.  VAR had a chance to overturn a clear and obvious error and didn't do so.

 

All of this will provoke "big club bias" allegations.

 

Some in here will say "Aye aye, Fergie's behind the desk at Stockley Park" or whatever, but it's tongue in cheek.  I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting brown envelopes full of money etc.

 

 

 

 


No good post. Big club bias is a different discussion

 

Sadly the first thing is wrong, posters on the forum have been suggesting, in fact not only suggesting but also vigorously defending their beliefs when questioned, a full blown conspiracy.

 

I think one post actually claimed “corruption from top to bottom”

 

Anyway, seems the low key goal celebrations are well out the window.

Edited by Manwell Pablo
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KingsX

KingsX

Posted
Posted

It's fine that Martinez and Lukaku are padding their stats by are pumping a mediocre side after they've given up.  They have shown they are dangerous players against better than this.

 

But Shakhtar have been so rank, it's hard to gauge how good Inter are.  I'm still thinking Sevilla in the final.

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