Hands-free phone ban for drivers 'should be considered'

[davieG]

Quote

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49320473

 

Hands-free phone ban for drivers 'should be considered'

Hands-free mobile phones create 'the same risks of collision' as held devices
Drivers could be banned from using hands-free mobile phones in England and Wales, a group of MPs has suggested.

Current laws give the "misleading impression" that hands-free options are safe, they warned.

While it has been illegal to use a handheld phone at the wheel since 2003, using a hands-free device creates "the same risks of collision", the Commons Transport Select Committee said.

The government said that, where legal, drivers must always use phones safely.

An expert told the committee that taking a hands-free phone call caused "essentially the same" amount of distraction as being at the legal limit for alcohol blood level in England and Wales.

A public consultation on the proposal should be published by the end of 2019, the cross-party group said.

It would only apply to England and Wales, as the issue is devolved in Scotland.

'Lifetime of suffering'
Joshua Harris, of road safety charity Brake, said research showed using a hands-free phone "can impair a driver in the same way as a hand-held device and so it makes sense that the law treats these acts equally".

"One moment's distraction from a phone can cause a lifetime of suffering so our advice to drivers is simple - when you're driving, make sure your phone is on silent and placed out of sight and out of reach," he said.

There were 773 casualties on Britain's roads in 2017, including 43 deaths and 135 serious injuries, in crashes where a driver using any kind of mobile was a contributory factor, the committee said in a report.

While the number of people killed or seriously injured in such incidents has increased since 2011, the rate of enforcement regarding phone use has fallen by more than two-thirds over the same period, the report added.

Since March 2017, motorists caught using a handheld phone have faced incurring six points on their licence and a £200 fine - up from the previous penalty of three points and £100.

The MPs urged the government to consider whether penalties should be increased further "to better reflect the serious risks created by drivers committing this offence".

Labour MP Lilian Greenwood, who chairs the committee, said "any use of a phone distracts from a driver's ability to pay full attention" to the road.

A 2016 study by scientists at the University of Sussex found conversations via hands-free devices caused some drivers to visually imagine what was being discussed.

A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: "While mobile phones are a vital part of modern life and business, drivers must always use them safely and responsibly.

"Being distracted by a mobile phone while driving is dangerous and puts people's lives at risk. The law is clear that anyone driving dangerously is committing a criminal offence."

 

 

 

 

Doesn't apply to me as i can't talk on the phone.

 

I understand their point but surely no more of a distraction than passengers conversing in the car especially disruptive children. Yes there's a need to minimise potential hazards but you can't keep legislating for every conceivable potential accident in life.

 

We're already on our way to a selfish if it's not a law I don't give a **** society. It seems to me every time you try to legislate away these risks you give some people an excuse to become more selfish and it still doesn't stop people breaking the new law or system I see examples of this everyday when driving.

[Babylon]

Ban radios in the car, stop putting lighters in cars, take out all seats so that you can't get distracted by passengers. Next they'll be telling me I can't sip on my can of special brew whilst I'm driving. 

[yorkie1999]

I can't figure out how sat-navs became ok to use in a car, especially now they're more like a 10" media centre slapped in the drivers eyeline, surely they are more of a distraction than a hands free phone system. Maybe it's really the car manufacturers who say they are safe! 

[mancunianfox]

7 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

I can't figure out how sat-navs became ok to use in a car, especially now they're more like a 10" media centre slapped in the drivers eyeline, surely they are more of a distraction than a hands free phone system. Maybe it's really the car manufacturers who say they are safe! 

The size of touch screens in cars is getting ridiculous, especially cars like Citroen's were you need to access a touch screen menu just to work the air con and heaters! Stuff like Android Auto and Apple Car Play is designed to be safer but how much safer is taking your eyes off the road to look at a screen? I make calls via blue tooth in my car if I am on my own and it no more distracting than talking to a passenger or driving with my kids in the car.

[yorkie1999]

4 minutes ago, mancunianfox said:

The size of touch screens in cars is getting ridiculous, especially cars like Citroen's were you need to access a touch screen menu just to work the air con and heaters! Stuff like Android Auto and Apple Car Play is designed to be safer but how much safer is taking your eyes off the road to look at a screen? I make calls via blue tooth in my car if I am on my own and it no more distracting than talking to a passenger or driving with my kids in the car.

What about teslas with the 20" media long screen media info centre...My father in law has his phone and a tomtom in the wind screen and he can't see either because he's got his driving glasses on, you take your life in your own hands if you jump in with him for a lift to the football, any phone call, he has to change his glasses so he can see the answer button, then he can't see the road!

[Innovindil]

So what about the built in system in my car that connects my phone with Bluetooth? No more talking through that? 

[ozleicester]

Its safer to be a driver than at any time in the past..anyway, in a couple of years it will all be self driving cars and you'll just sit back and insta your life away

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

So what about the built in system in my car that connects my phone with Bluetooth? No more talking through that? 

My son uses one of these and it's no more distracting than repeating everything he says to me  or when they announce the team for the days game 

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Its safer to be a driver than at any time in the past..anyway, in a couple of years it will all be self driving cars and you'll just sit back and insta your life away

Well they'll have to ban the others because they'll always be people that want to experience the thrill of driving their souped up car around.

[Steven]

10 minutes ago, davieG said:

Well they'll have to ban the others because they'll always be people that want to experience the thrill of driving their souped up car around.

Trust me, I enjoy the thrill of all 355 horses under the bonnet! 

[Guest Fktf]

I've delivered lectures on this topic - the findings they report in this article are accurate. Interestingly (if you like this stuff), having a conversation with passengers in the car doesn't create the same distraction - it is something about the artificial nature of conversations on phones.

[davieG]

10 minutes ago, Fktf said:

I've delivered lectures on this topic - the findings they report in this article are accurate. Interestingly (if you like this stuff), having a conversation with passengers in the car doesn't create the same distraction - it is something about the artificial nature of conversations on phones.

Maybe but I guess it depends on the nature of the conversation. Also misbehaving, bored children would be a distraction as will other things you simple can't ban everything.

 

The question is how far is too far?

 

There's also the almost impossible task of policing it, how would you detect someone using a bluetootth type connection?

[yorkie1999]

Wonder how many casualties have come from the 300,000 accidents where sat navs were involved. Bit hard to criminalise though isn't it. Seems to me that Dick Turpin may have more to do with it than anything else.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2438430/Sat-Nav-blunders-have-caused-up-to-300000-accidents.html

[Guest Fktf]

3 minutes ago, davieG said:

Maybe but I guess it depends on the nature of the conversation. Also misbehaving, bored children would be a distraction as will other things you simple can't ban everything.

 

The question is how far is too far?

 

There's also the almost impossible task of policing it, how would you detect someone using a bluetootth type connection?

Indeed. I think it comes down to a question of necessity. Banning kids from cars simply isn't feasible. I'm not sure banning phone conversations whilst driving would really have that much of negative impact on most people, although I'll admit that's based on my daily routine. Even the most trivial conversations (e.g. what to have for dinner later) have been shown to distract people whilst driving, such that they spot less hazards when driving.

 

Agree about policing it - no idea how that would be done effectively. This is why I'm in research and not policy making!

[davieG]

13 minutes ago, Fktf said:

Indeed. I think it comes down to a question of necessity. Banning kids from cars simply isn't feasible. I'm not sure banning phone conversations whilst driving would really have that much of negative impact on most people, although I'll admit that's based on my daily routine. Even the most trivial conversations (e.g. what to have for dinner later) have been shown to distract people whilst driving, such that they spot less hazards when driving.

 

Agree about policing it - no idea how that would be done effectively. This is why I'm in research and not policy making!

Well I'm sure there are many business based calls made. There are people, salesmen, service engineers etc on the road all day making site visits and will be kept upto date on the when, where and who to visit as just one example.

 

They can't currently police people using hand held phones, drive for 1/2 hour and you're almost guaranteed to see 2/3 people on their phones.

[David Guiza]

[RoboFox]

A bit silly, really. 

 

Phones in most modern cars connect via bluetooth and are controlled by a couple of buttons on the steering wheel. To physically operate the things require minimum attention, and as others have said how can they distinguish between the distractions caused by other passengers vs. phone conversations?

 

'Media centres' and sat-navs however... I literally have to pull over to change the f**king radio station.

 

 

Edited 13 August 2019 by RoboFox

[Finnegan]

One of the most retarded things I've seen in ages. 

 

What about people driving around with a screaming kid having a tantrum in the back? 

[Captain...]

I'm still not sure if they just mean phones with a hands free unit that you use to connect to the phone or if this includes in built Bluetooth calls. I get banning people from using a hands free kit that might require you to use the phone to answer and make calls, especially those that need to make a call, fish out their hands free kit, get their phone connect it and then use the handset to make the call. That is dangerous. If you're phone is already connected and you can answer it with a button on the steering wheel surely that is fine.

[Izzy]

Load of old Pony.

 

No way they can police it.

 

How can they distinguish between you being hands free on the phone, singing along to the radio or even talking to yourself out loud?

[stix]

This is a genuine question and not a dig at the Police/Emergency services. 

 

Are they exempt by law by law regarding the use of handheld devices/radios? 

 

I completely understand that there is a massive difference between my wife calling me on the hands free asking me what I want for dinner to a Police Officer answering and listening to a radio call requesting assistance to an RTA, I was just wondering if it was written in law that they could do it or it was just a given? 

[stix]

17 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Load of old Pony.

 

No way they can police it.

 

How can they distinguish between you being hands free on the phone, singing along to the radio or even talking to yourself out loud?

 

Are they allowed to check your recent call history if they suspected you were on the phone? At the roadside I mean. 

Edited 13 August 2019 by stix

[Izzy]

11 minutes ago, stix said:

 

Are they allowed to check your recent call history if they suspected you were on the phone? At the roadside I mean. 

No idea but I'd rather the Police used their time doing something more productive like catching real criminals tbh

[ScouseFox]

fu cking hell

[Guest Fktf]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

A bit silly, really. 

 

Phones in most modern cars connect via bluetooth and are controlled by a couple of buttons on the steering wheel. To physically operate the things require minimum attention, and as others have said how can they distinguish between the distractions caused by other passengers vs. phone conversations?

 

'Media centres' and sat-navs however... I literally have to pull over to change the f**king radio station.

 

 

You run experiments - usually in simulators. One group of drivers talk on the phone, one group of drivers talk to a passenger, one group just drives. You measure things like dangerous driving behaviours (e.g. lane deviations), get people to recall any hazards they spotted on the drive when they've finished. The people on the phone usually perform much worse than those talking to the passenger.

 

56 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I'm still not sure if they just mean phones with a hands free unit that you use to connect to the phone or if this includes in built Bluetooth calls. I get banning people from using a hands free kit that might require you to use the phone to answer and make calls, especially those that need to make a call, fish out their hands free kit, get their phone connect it and then use the handset to make the call. That is dangerous. If you're phone is already connected and you can answer it with a button on the steering wheel surely that is fine.

The issue isn't physically operating devices, it is that you pay attention to the conversation at the expense of paying attention to the road, and for someone reason talking on the phone seems to take up a lot more of our attention than talking to someone in the seat next to you - I'm not sure why, but the data show it quite clearly.