Brexit!

[Guest MattP]

I'm actually amazed we don't have photo ID in the first place to vote - it's pretty incredible that you can just walk into a polling station say a name in the area and get a vote.

 

Although if you aren't financially able to afford it you should be given a form of identification to vote.

 

Not sure how this is "voter supression" - pretty sure it's fairly common in most countries.

[Alf Bentley]

7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

 

I would say that the argument against photo ID for voting is nonsense - they took the stats of people who where turned away and then where surprised that some didn't come back.  Not many people would bother to go back if they were turned away for any reason.  This is important though, hence the Government also says it will provide free photo ID to those who cannot afford it.

 

I hadn't seen that info about free photo ID - though people would still have to apply for it in advance, so I'd say that reduces the risk of skewing things, rather than eliminating it.

 

Here's a pretty thorough, balanced C4 Fact Check on the pros & cons for anyone interested: https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-governments-voter-id-plans

[rachhere]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

I'm actually amazed we don't have photo ID in the first place to vote - it's pretty incredible that you can just walk into a polling station say a name in the area and get a vote.

 

Although if you aren't financially able to afford it you should be given a form of identification to vote.

 

Not sure how this is "voter supression" - pretty sure it's fairly common in most countries.

I saw some analysis on this recently from a large dataset, which confirmed the arguments against using photo ID - i.e. that low income and certain ethnic minority groups are a lot less likely to have photo ID that they could use. I always found it strange that you didn't have to take your polling card with you. Surely that's a suitable compromise?

 

 

[Legend_in_blue]

Bojo finally beginning to play all his remaining cards on the table.  Force his GE and then blame parliament, but never himself.  

 

No chance he wins a vote tonight that he knows full well he wont win.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, rachhere said:

I saw some analysis on this recently from a large dataset, which confirmed the arguments against using photo ID - i.e. that low income and certain ethnic minority groups are a lot less likely to have photo ID that they could use. I always found it strange that you didn't have to take your polling card with you. Surely that's a suitable compromise?

Just making sure everybody has ID is the ideal compromise. So it doesn't effect any group of people.

 

To be honest I'd rather we clamped down on postal vote voting than this - when you've got people already convicted of voting fraud like Tariq Mahmood running around for Labour in Peterborough during by-elections I dread to think what is going on.

 

You should only be voting by post if you are incapable of getting to the ballot box or are out of the country.

[leicsmac]

I'd say voter suppression is much more a problem in a lot of the US than it is in the UK, given the inaccessibility of resources to obtain valid ID for poorer people over there, but all the same it certainly shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

 

As above, if you're going to insist on ID for voters, you'd damn well make sure that everyone eligible to vote has the easiest possible access to that ID. Or don't do it.

Edited 22 October 2019 by leicsmac

[Guest MattP]

Well the chamber is now virtually empty and not a single Labour MP is standing to ask a question. 

 

Looks like 6 hours was more than enough to scrutinise the deal.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well the chamber is now virtually empty and not a single Labour MP is standing to ask a question. 

 

Looks like 6 hours was more than enough to scrutinise the deal.

They are probably tired Matt, they had to work a Saturday this week the poor sods. Workers rights are already out the bloody window.

[Guest MattP]

Well it took until October 2019 but our government has finally voted for some form of Brexit. 

 

Still don't see Boris winning this vote on the timetable - but it might be closer than I thought.

[Jon the Hat]

26 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well it took until October 2019 but our government has finally voted for some form of Brexit. 

 

Still don't see Boris winning this vote on the timetable - but it might be closer than I thought.

Was quite close

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Was quite close

It was. 

 

So now we have a parliament that wants to leave the EU but just can't decide when.

 

I suppose that's progress.

[Mike Oxlong]

Historic day indeed 

 

Boris won a vote 

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

It was. 

 

So now we have a parliament that wants to leave the EU but just can't decide when.

 

I suppose that's progress.

Nice spin 👍

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Nice spin 👍

What's not true about that?

[Mike Oxlong]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

What's not true about that?

They voted to give it a second reading which isn’t the same as blanket approval 

 

Some will decide as informed by that process which could be critical as to whether it passes in its present form or at all 

[twoleftfeet]

Strange how you can select a government with out id but not buy cigarettes and alcohol get a job or open a bank account. it seems they are more stringent down the local supermarket than the the local polling station. Is the real issue that it could just lead to id cards for all and be used for other stuff like claiming benefits and trearment. Not sure why some see a national ID card as  bad thing?

[st albans fox]

Those who claim that no deal is a disaster for the country will now risk a general election Dec 5th or some time in January ..........  a potential majority Tory administration can then  take the country out with no deal  or drive a v hard brexit deal with Brussels ...... sometimes politicians can be a bit too clever .......

[Spiritwalker]

35 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Those who claim that no deal is a disaster for the country will now risk a general election Dec 5th or some time in January ..........  a potential majority Tory administration can then  take the country out with no deal  or drive a v hard brexit deal with Brussels ...... sometimes politicians can be a bit too clever .......

I’m not sure we could get a harder Brexit than the one that’s on offer.

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I’m not sure we could get a harder Brexit than the one that’s on offer.

depending on your perspective, you’ll be pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised !!!!!

[Spiritwalker]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

depending on your perspective, you’ll be pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised !!!!!

That would be unpleasantly then.

[HappyHamza]

6 hours ago, MattP said:

I'm actually amazed we don't have photo ID in the first place to vote - it's pretty incredible that you can just walk into a polling station say a name in the area and get a vote.

 

Although if you aren't financially able to afford it you should be given a form of identification to vote.

 

Not sure how this is "voter supression" - pretty sure it's fairly common in most countries.

If we had a national ID card which everybody owned then this would be fair enough. But we don't. 

Literally millions of people that are eligible to vote don't have photo ID.

And offering a government ID is not going to reach everybody.  That's obvious.  People never understand the rules of this sort of thing until it's too late.

At the last election there was one instance of ID fraud. During limited trials over 800 people were turned away from voting despite huge advertising about the need to bring ID.

We've seen elsewhere that bringing this sort of law in disenfranchises voters and that those voters are overwhelmingly the poor and the vulnerable.

If there was a significant problem and a mandatory ID which existed to solve it then I'd say fair enough but neither are true.

This is a blatant attempt to vote rig.

Edited 22 October 2019 by HappyHamza

[HappyHamza]

1 hour ago, twoleftfeet said:

Strange how you can select a government with out id but not buy cigarettes and alcohol get a job or open a bank account. it seems they are more stringent down the local supermarket than the the local polling station. Is the real issue that it could just lead to id cards for all and be used for other stuff like claiming benefits and trearment. Not sure why some see a national ID card as  bad thing?

As I've said above if a national ID was held by everybody then it might be workable but otherwise it's a barmy (and party political) idea.

[HappyHamza]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

It was. 

 

So now we have a parliament that wants to leave the EU but just can't decide when.

 

I suppose that's progress.

 

3 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

They voted to give it a second reading which isn’t the same as blanket approval 

 

Some will decide as informed by that process which could be critical as to whether it passes in its present form or at all 

The vote to take it to the next stage brings brexit closer on one hand but on the other is actually just enabling parliament to consider the whole range of possible brexit and a second referendum once again through amendments. Its only the final vote that matters. 

 

The vote to say no to the timeframe was absolutely right. It was ridiculous to try to push it through that fast. Trying not to have the ERG and soft brexiteers all look at the detail and notice how a number of statements made by ministers and the PM since the deal was struck are blatantly untrue. Claims that voting on 453 pages of documentation is the same as voting on the 3 page Benn bill are frankly embarrassing. 

Edited 22 October 2019 by HappyHamza

[st albans fox]

We know that a long period of amendments etc, won’t go anywhere as there was never a majority for any of the indicative votes. Boris doesn’t want ‘bill fatigue’ to result in a ‘watered down’ version. 
 

it’s possible that a two week timetable could just about be acceptable to the govt but they won’t get that from the HOC as the 322 all want stuff in the bill that the govt don’t (and a majority cannot agree anyway) 

 

so a GE is the only way forward but the opposition down want that either !!

[Guest MattP]

Public certainly support voter ID.