Extinction Rebellion

[Carl the Llama]

3 hours ago, Benguin said:

Oh yeah I definitely agree with all that... Why do we care though? If we are atoms randomly and chaotically bouncing around until the grave, what's in it for us to care? 

 

Nah, not derailing another thread with this after how well previous attempts to have this discussion in good faith have gone.  Start a new thread if you want to get one locked.

[Phil Bowman]

2 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Missed most of this, can someone do a bullet point run down of what's going on in here please? 

The human race is making the world uninhabitable.

 

Some people are trying to draw attention to this by dancing on trains.

 

Some other people think those people are idiots.

 

Some more other people think those first people invalidate their protest by looking happy.

 

Some people think XR are entitled idiots.

 

Some people think that they should write to their MP instead. Or buy a Nissan Leaf.

 

Some people think if we can’t do everything there’s no point in doing anything.

 

TLDR:

Most people here blame both climate change and Extinction Rebellion on either Maddison’s backpack or Rodgers’ insistence on picking Perez.

[Carl the Llama]

2 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Missed most of this, can someone do a bullet point run down of what's going on in here please? 

ER have been protesting in London so we're talking about whether they're helping and what else could be done.

If you meant my previous comment, nothing's going on, but previous theological discussions with that user haven't ended well so I'm not keen to go too far into that particular conversation in this thread.  Like I said he's welcome to start a new one if he really wants to talk about it.

[leicsmac]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

 

Thanks guys.

 

@Carl the Llama wasn't referring to your post at all mate, just seems this threads been very active and haven't kept up with the news in last couple of days so was just intrigued haha. 

To add to the salient points above:

 

Some people have inferred that messengers being hypocrites invalidates the message they are giving, because the Earth apparently really cares about that sort of thing.

[ozleicester]

The discussions that are being held here and in millions of homes and workplaces are because XR are driving awareness. Without the protests...NOTHING would be happening.

A whole lot of old people especially (and by old i mean 35+) would still just be focussing on themselves and not the future of the planet.

[leicsmac]

...actually, having started this particular round of debate, I think @Wymseyshould get back here and tell folks what they think should be done regarding climate change and how it might work considering the actions of XR don't fit the bill.

[Dahnsouff]

4 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The discussions that are being held here and in millions of homes and workplaces are because XR are driving awareness. Without the protests...NOTHING would be happening.

A whole lot of old people especially (and by old i mean 35+) would still just be focussing on themselves and not the future of the planet.

So only young people do useful things? We changed our consumption footprint, our use of fossil fuels, ceased using cars in favour of bikes/walking. Stopped taking foreign holidays requiring air travel. Improved the house so our emissions are as for a small 1 bed terrace. All when we were over 35. Must see doctor I guess.

 

Shouting loud and throwing stuff is not the only form of positive action.

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

So only young people do useful things? We changed our consumption footprint, our use of fossil fuels, ceased using cars in favour of bikes/walking. Stopped taking foreign holidays requiring air travel. Improved the house so our emissions are as for a small 1 bed terrace. All when we were over 35. Must see doctor I guess.

 

Shouting loud and throwing stuff is not the only form of positive action.

It's true - self interest is hardly the sole preserve of the older.

 

However, it is that short-term self-interest that needs to be at least mitigated to guarantee a future.

[Dahnsouff]

16 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's true - self interest is hardly the sole preserve of the older.

 

However, it is that short-term self-interest that needs to be at least mitigated to guarantee a future.

You seem to be grafting some higher level of altruism onto younger people, would you care to explain why? Is this even in the face of concerns parents may have for their children’s futures?

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

You seem to be grafting some higher level of altruism onto younger people, would you care to explain why? Is this even in the face of concerns parents may have for their children’s futures?

I'm grafting altruism onto everyone, not just younger people, for two reasons that immediately come to mind:

 

 - Outside of a committed nihilist or misanthrope, the future of human civilisation should be everyone's concern

- and yes, the lives folks save may well end up being their own or that of their descendants, so it pays off for them anyway.

 

There might be more reasons that I can't think of right now.

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

So only young people do useful things? We changed our consumption footprint, our use of fossil fuels, ceased using cars in favour of bikes/walking. Stopped taking foreign holidays requiring air travel. Improved the house so our emissions are as for a small 1 bed terrace. All when we were over 35. Must see doctor I guess.

 

Shouting loud and throwing stuff is not the only form of positive action.

A. whole. lot. .......Were the words i used.

I too am old, i too changed.

"Not all old people"

[Wymsey]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...actually, having started this particular round of debate, I think @Wymseyshould get back here and tell folks what they think should be done regarding climate change and how it might work considering the actions of XR don't fit the bill.

That's a tough question.

 

Regarding ER - perhaps they should change their tact by organising something less congested to the public, who don't deserve to be affected by their current protest arrangements - I,e, handing out leaflets or setting up stalls in busy locations such as at train stations etc or shopping centres, explaining why there needs to be drastic change or try to promote their charity/organisation in a more appropriate manner?

Edited 28 August 2021 by Wymsey

[grobyfox1990]

Saw them causing chaos in the city of London yesterday. It was mildly amusing as I literally got caught in their daubing of guildhall in red paint. I cannot believe the police are so soft on them. agree with them or not, they're causing criminal damage whilst the police just look on. Also the resources spent on them in policing is shocking

[leicsmac]

15 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

That's a tough question.

 

Regarding ER - perhaps they should change their tact by organising something less congested to the public, who don't deserve to be affected by their current protest arrangements - I,e, handing out leaflets or setting up stalls in busy locations such as at train stations etc or shopping centres, explaining why there needs to be drastic change or try to promote their charity/organisation in a more appropriate manner?

It is a tough question, and unfortunately as has been stated before, it's highly likely that the more moderate approach is not working fast enough to address the problems that need addressing without having dire consequences.

 

I do apologise for calling you out to answer it, but as has been said before on here, there's an awful lot of criticism of XR here for the way they do things and not a lot of suggestions about what should be done instead apart from platitudes about "being nicer", which would be fine if the clock wasn't ticking and we weren't behind time anyway.

[Buce]

10 hours ago, Wymsey said:

That's a tough question.

 

Regarding ER - perhaps they should change their tact by organising something less congested to the public, who don't deserve to be affected by their current protest arrangements - I,e, handing out leaflets or setting up stalls in busy locations such as at train stations etc or shopping centres, explaining why there needs to be drastic change or try to promote their charity/organisation in a more appropriate manner?

 

That's certainly an option, Wymsey, but here's my proposal: let's get tough - the time for talking is over. Call it extreme if you like but I propose we hit it hard, and hit it fast with a major - and I mean major - leaflet campaign. And while it's reeling from that, we follow up with a whist drive, car boot sales, street theatre, and possibly even some benefit concerts. OK? Now, if that's not enough, then I'm sorry it's time for the t-shirts: "Global Warming Out. No Life Forms? No Thanks!"

 

Apologies to Grant and Naylor.

Edited 28 August 2021 by Buce

[Wymsey]

36 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

That's certainly an option, Wymsey, but here's my proposal: let's get tough - the time for talking is over. Call it extreme if you like but I propose we hit it hard, and hit it fast with a major - and I mean major - leaflet campaign. And while it's reeling from that, we follow up with a whist drive, car boot sales, street theatre, and possibly even some benefit concerts. OK? Now, if that's not enough, it's time for the t-shirts: "Global Warming Out. No Life Forms? No Thanks!"

 

Apologies to Grant and Naylor.

 

Seriously, though, what would you suggest? 

[Raj]

1 hour ago, Wymsey said:

 

Seriously, though, what would you suggest? 

This is thing and I e asked it loads of times on previous pages.

Although alot of folk moan about ER and what they are doing, no ones come up with a tangible  idea.

Some were jump off a cliff or boycott chinese products!!!

[fuchsntf]

On 26/08/2021 at 02:27, leicsmac said:

The point is that being clear and calm about the way the Earth is very obviously changing isn't getting people to listen and take appropriate action either. People listen to reports of reports of villages burning down or being swept away, say "oh, that's terrible"...and then go on eating their dinners.

 

So what is to be done?

 

I honestly don't know the best way to overcome that apathy based on empathy not extending beyond ones line of sight. Which is important, because by the time this problem really gets into the faces of the people who could do something about it, the consequences of it may not be stoppable and will be truly dire.

The simple Problem/truth is The Enlightened West, is probably not carrying  6% of the World's  populace

Probably then Not 2% Really care,though Not because they dont want to...Simply because everybody has to get on with life & Live their given lot...Roulade

 

Thats how Governments work, knowing their Electorate  are basically apathetic,

to much of their own  outside  environment & issues that dont seem to be effecting

their 24hr 7 day week routine. Grandads/Grandmas funeral, Tommy's Birthday,Heathers wedding,Tante Emma in hospital, the dog humping the the Apple tree,

the neighbours upset over the Cat Shitting in "his" garden....how is the Football Team getting on & when is the next chance of a decent Pint.

 

The Status Quo ( & Not from Rocking all over the world..sort) are Simply not that bovvered nor ready to react upon those things they complain about most...

It was just a good debate,and we all feel better humans now attitude..

 

 

Edited 28 August 2021 by fuchsntf

[Houdini Logic]

10 hours ago, ozleicester said:

The discussions that are being held here and in millions of homes and workplaces are because XR are driving awareness. Without the protests...NOTHING would be happening.

A whole lot of old people especially (and by old i mean 35+) would still just be focussing on themselves and not the future of the planet.

This post has so much wrong with it I don't even know where to begin. But anyway...

Start off by looking at ESGs and how they're becoming THE main focus of WEF and how some markets (Hong Kong and I think another in Asia) are mandating an ESG policy/reporting before a company can even be listed. Asset management companies are becoming a dominant force in financial markets (the top 3 AM companies own assets worth the GDP of a country) as investors move from short term risker investments to investing in assets for the longer term. As such, they naturally need to make sure they invest in companies who are sustainable for the long term, which has the knock on effect that shareholders (and by proxy asset management companies) are increasingly becoming interested in the ESG policy of organisations. There are numerous cases recently where shareholders have voted out CEOs regarding their (lack of) environmental and sustainability policies. 

 

Whether you like it or not - big business will change the world not ER - and there is certainly a change starting to happen regarding ESGs. I'm not saying I'm not a cynic and it's not for self-serving purposes, or some of it at this early stage isn't disguised box ticking, but the change will be driven by business and it is starting to happen.

[Claridge]

14 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

The simple Problem/truth is The Enlightened West, is probably not carrying  6% of the World's  populace

Probably then Not 2% Really care,though Not because they dont want to...Simply because everybody has to get on with life & Live their given lot...Roulade

 

Thats how Governments work, knowing their Electoral are basically apathetic,to much of their own  outside  environment & issues that dont seem to be effecting

their 24hr 7 day week routine. Grandads/Grandmas funeral, Tommy's Birthday,Heathers wedding,Tante Emma in hospital, the dog humping the the Apple tree,

the neighbours upset over the Cat Shitting in "his" garden....how is the Football Team getting on & when is the next chance of a decent Pint.

 

The Status Quo ( & Not from Rocking all over the world..sort) are Simply not that bovvered nor ready to react upon those things they complain about most...

It was just a good debate,and we all feel better humans now attitude..

 

 

Rich westerners whining about climate change, whilst billions live in absolute poverty around the world.

No wonder not many really care about a few rich kids doing silly stunts in London. 

[ozleicester]

7 minutes ago, Houdini Logic said:

This post has so much wrong with it I don't even know where to begin. But anyway...

Start off by looking at ESGs and how they're becoming THE main focus of WEF and how some markets (Hong Kong and I think another in Asia) are mandating an ESG policy/reporting before a company can even be listed. Asset management companies are becoming a dominant force in financial markets (the top 3 AM companies own assets worth the GDP of a country) as investors move from short term risker investments to investing in assets for the longer term. As such, they naturally need to make sure they invest in companies who are sustainable for the long term, which has the knock on effect that shareholders (and by proxy asset management companies) are increasingly becoming interested in the ESG policy of organisations. There are numerous cases recently where shareholders have voted out CEOs regarding their (lack of) environmental and sustainability policies. 

 

Whether you like it or not - big business will change the world not ER - and there is certainly a change starting to happen regarding ESGs. I'm not saying I'm not a cynic and it's not for self-serving purposes, or some of it at this early stage isn't disguised box ticking, but the change will be driven by business and it is starting to happen.

What will drive big business to change... people

[jonthefox]

Going to London tomorrow. It's going to be interesting to see, that's for sure. 

[Houdini Logic]

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

What will drive big business to change... people

I think you missed the point of everything I said. Doesn't matter.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Claridge said:

Rich westerners whining about climate change, whilst billions live in absolute poverty around the world.

No wonder not many really care about a few rich kids doing silly stunts in London. 

....and those billions living in poverty (mostly in sub Saharan Africa and parts of South Asia) will be the first to feel the effects of increased global temperatures in the form of much more drought and famine.

 

There is a problem here. Disparaging the stunts of XR isn't going to make it go away...except to those who don't really care about those billions living in poverty in the first place and are just using them to make a point.

[ozleicester]

3 minutes ago, Houdini Logic said:

I think you missed the point of everything I said. Doesn't matter.

feel free to explain