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Strokes

Getting brexit done!

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1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

That's a key point, anecdotally a lot of these cases are people who would not have otherwise been planning on working abroad.

 

Besides it's irrelevant because that's not a new possibility since Brexit, with the EU institutions scrubbed it's a net loss for jobs however you try to spin it.  Plus it will depend entirely on which countries allow foreign nationals/non-EU nationals to work in their civil service which isn't something I've looked into.  But you don't care about that, you just don't want to admit you're wrong about it making a difference.

How can I admit I’m wrong, when there is no evidence to say either way. 
As I’ve attempted to clarify the ‘no difference’ you lot are hung up on related to numbers not individual cases. So come back to me when you have some actual figures to contradict me rather than niche jobs that prove nothing.

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9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

How can I admit I’m wrong, when there is no evidence to say either way. 
As I’ve attempted to clarify the ‘no difference’ you lot are hung up on related to numbers not individual cases. So come back to me when you have some actual figures to contradict me rather than niche jobs that prove nothing.

I've just given you evidence, other people have given their evidence, it can't be helped that you choose to disregard it.  But remind me in a couple of years when we have the hard numbers on post-Brexit expats.

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1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

I've just given you evidence, other people have given their evidence, it can't be helped that you choose to disregard it.  But remind me in a couple of years when we have the hard numbers on post-Brexit expats.

It’s not evidence of it affecting the total numbers on day two is it? Your evidence was of a very niche job role/s that account for how many jobs exactly?

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Just now, Strokes said:

It’s not evidence of it affecting the total numbers on day two is it? Your evidence was of a very niche job role/s that account for how many jobs exactly?

Dunno, the point is simply that it will be a net loss in terms of jobs available to UK citizens.  It might only be a small impact but an impact nonetheless.  And if there are lots of similar small impacts then it all adds up.

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On 01/01/2021 at 15:43, Foxy_Bear said:

I'm fundamentally opposed to Brexit but now that it has happened and looking at it from a purely Scottish point of view, it's win/win. 

 

One of two thing will happen....

 

Either it's all sunshine and rainbows as promised and it improves the lives of everyone in Scotland as well as the UK.

 

OR....

 

It's a disaster making life worse for us all and nudges Scotlands bid for independence over the line with more people realising that the mess they are in was done so against their will. 

 

....Or ofcourse, our lives aren't affected in the slightest and you would have to wonder what all the fuss has been about. 

I really don’t get people who are nationalists yet were pro remain. Surely it’s the same mind set that you

don’t want foreigners/the English telling you what you can or can’t do.

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22 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Dunno, the point is simply that it will be a net loss in terms of jobs available to UK citizens.  It might only be a small impact but an impact nonetheless.  And if there are lots of similar small impacts then it all adds up.

The point was there wouldn’t be a negative difference in the numbers emigrating. There are always individual casualties in any big change.

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

I mean you taking the word difference and putting it in completely different context. It won’t make a difference to the amount of people emigrating.

As I've demonstrated it already has. The people I've mentioned were happy to live abroad but also happy to keep their uk citizenship.

Because of the Brexit vote they were forced to act either return to the Uk or Stay were they had a made a better life for themselves.

We discussed the were's and where nots having a few Beers after Golf and the common issue they all had with the UK was the amount of shit going on in England .

In short the system was working for the system and not for the good of the people. And nobody was doing anything about it.

People were misled in the Vote and nobody done anything about it. Not even the so called free press.

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2 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I really don’t get people who are nationalists yet were pro remain. Surely it’s the same mind set that you

don’t want foreigners/the English telling you what you can or can’t do.

Individual countries have much more autonomy in the EU than Scotland has in the UK. 

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1 minute ago, Strokes said:

The point was there wouldn’t be a negative difference in the numbers emigrating. There are always individual casualties in any big change.

Generally when you add a barrier to something, no matter how small, it creates resistance, a reduction in flow.  Now you might be right, this could turn out to be the 'exception that proves the rule' so to speak, but that can only be proved with time.

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14 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

I really don’t get people who are nationalists yet were pro remain. Surely it’s the same mind set that you

don’t want foreigners/the English telling you what you can or can’t do.

The level of involvement the EU has in UK politics is nowhere near the same level of involvement Westminster has in Scottish politics though. Not even close. 

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1 minute ago, Carl the Llama said:

Generally when you add a barrier to something, no matter how small, it creates resistance, a reduction in flow.  Now you might be right, this could turn out to be the 'exception that proves the rule' so to speak, but that can only be proved with time.

Thanks for accepting your argument before was invalid very big of you.

 

As I’ve stated, the barriers are no more than in place in non EU countries and you’d expect there to be many more in the EU than elsewhere given it’s A) closer in proximity B) easier to get too C) Pretty much barrier free.

But this proves to go against the logical principle, so I think I’m well within my rights to assume it won’t halt people’s ambitions becoming realised.

Moving abroad to live is not a decision taken on whim for many I shouldn’t imagine, it requires planning and careful consideration. I just can’t see why an application for work visa and having to download a VPN for SkyGo is really going to be the tipping point for the 400,000 that leave each year. And if it is, they probably didn’t really want to go that much in the first place.

Opportunities from within the EU might reduce or be limited to begin with, but whether or not that affects the overall figures we will have to see. I don’t think it will.

I still receive jobs that people want quoting from the EU, not that I’m interested right now. Seems a bit of a faff the old paperwork.

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5 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

The level of involvement the EU has in UK politics is nowhere near the same level of involvement Westminster has in Scottish politics though. Not even close. 

Fair enough. Has the torturous shenanigans of Brexit over the last 4 years and the probable economic shitstorm still

to come not put you off?

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5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Thanks for accepting your argument before was invalid very big of you.

 

As I’ve stated, the barriers are no more than in place in non EU countries and you’d expect there to be many more in the EU than elsewhere given it’s A) closer in proximity B) easier to get too C) Pretty much barrier free.

But this proves to go against the logical principle, so I think I’m well within my rights to assume it won’t halt people’s ambitions becoming realised.

Moving abroad to live is not a decision taken on whim for many I shouldn’t imagine, it requires planning and careful consideration. I just can’t see why an application for work visa and having to download a VPN for SkyGo is really going to be the tipping point for the 400,000 that leave each year. And if it is, they probably didn’t really want to go that much in the first place.

Opportunities from within the EU might reduce or be limited to begin with, but whether or not that affects the overall figures we will have to see. I don’t think it will.

I still receive jobs that people want quoting from the EU, not that I’m interested right now. Seems a bit of a faff the old paperwork.

3FFF05C9-E5A4-4BFB-8C21-4FE4213B4AF4.thumb.jpeg.0cd419f95bdd0de87617159136b50e6f.jpeg

Maybe no more barriers than other non-EU nations, but more than was previously the case in the countries we're actually talking about.  Logically the number of people making the move to the places with new barriers will reduce. 

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12 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

Fair enough. Has the torturous shenanigans of Brexit over the last 4 years and the probable economic shitstorm still

to come not put you off?

It hasn't because I feel like independence (and brexit for that matter) is a long term game but I do think that she shitshow of Brexit would have put off alot of people who were previously on the fence about Scottish independence.

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2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Maybe no more barriers than other non-EU nations, but more than was previously the case in the countries we're actually talking about.  Logically the number of people making the move to the places with new barriers will reduce. 

I never argued that it wouldn’t, although I don’t think it’s a given either.

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4 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think if it was just Brexit Scotland would probably vote to remain in the UK. It's Boris Johnson and the appalling incompetence and arrogance of this government that will probably convince them to leave, especially as they live up to every stereotype of the over-privileged and morally-bankrupt English ruling class. 

I can't see us leaving any time soon anyway. I think Stugeon has made a massive error in politicising the pandemic when she continually brought Independence up in a time the public's safety should have been a priority. 

 

If we went for a referendum now, it would be disastrous. We need to bide or time, wait to see how the dust settles on Brexit. Like I said earlier, either it will improve our lives or it will be a disaster and push people to our cause so we need to be patient. 

 

Tbh, Johnson is just another Tory off the production line of right wing politicians to treat Scotland with mild neglect and disdain. Nothing new. 

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15 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think if it was just Brexit Scotland would probably vote to remain in the UK. It's Boris Johnson and the appalling incompetence and arrogance of this government that will probably convince them to leave, especially as they live up to every stereotype of the over-privileged and morally-bankrupt English ruling class. 

 

On 01/01/2021 at 17:20, Facecloth said:

Its almost like they don't have an election every 4 years where everything might change.

:ph34r:

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Just now, Foxy_Bear said:

I can't see us leaving any time soon anyway. I think Stugeon has made a massive error in politicising the pandemic when she continually brought Independence up in a time the public's safety should have been a priority. 

 

If we went for a referendum now, it would be disastrous. We need to bide or time, wait to see how the dust settles on Brexit. Like I said earlier, either it will improve our lives or it will be a disaster and push people to our cause so we need to be patient. 

 

Tbh, Johnson is just another Tory off the production line of right wing politicians to treat Scotland with mild neglect and disdain. Nothing new. 

I hope you're right. I understand why Scots want independence but after the last five years I don't think throwing another indy ref into the mix is a great idea. 

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1 minute ago, bovril said:

I hope you're right. I understand why Scots want independence but after the last five years I don't think throwing another indy ref into the mix is a great idea. 

I agree. 

 

Listen, I am unquestionably and undeniably in favour of Scottish independence, probably a bit too stubborn on the matter in that nothing will change my mind on it but that doesn't mean I dont care about the rest of the UK and I would want them to be settled when we leave. I don't want to leave whilst they (along with us) are in turmoil. I want to leave but I want it to be done the right way. 

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