Getting brexit done!

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’m not sure I can agree, if not having the perks were a barrier, the numbers for elsewhere would less.

Nah, the only key comparative factor is numbers before and after, I think. But I guess we're only going to be sure on those numbers after some time of the perks not being there. Only time will tell.

 

In any case, I'd argue that any regulation that makes the process of traveling to another country more difficult in terms of bureaucratic or financial requirement (or indeed, regulation taking away factors that make those requirements easier) inhibits opportunities for travel simply by definition.

[Strokes]

44 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Nah, the only key comparative factor is numbers before and after, I think. But I guess we're only going to be sure on those numbers after some time of the perks not being there. Only time will tell.

 

In any case, I'd argue that any regulation that makes the process of traveling to another country more difficult in terms of bureaucratic or financial requirement (or indeed, regulation taking away factors that make those requirements easier) inhibits opportunities for travel simply by definition.

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree if it’s relevant or not.

I know you’re well traveled and I have only worked within the EU FOM boundaries thus far but I don’t see how the numbers can be ignored.

[leicsmac]

32 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree if it’s relevant or not.

I know you’re well traveled and I have only worked within the EU FOM boundaries thus far but I don’t see how the numbers can be ignored.

Fair enough.

 

You know my POV on how nation-states get in the way of sometimes critical matters anyhow.

[fuchsntf]

4 hours ago, Strokes said:

Again though, there is no evidence that these perks lead to more people travelling or enjoying, else their would be more in EU countries than Australia for example.

Not foo sure what you mean "travel".....more UK Citizens travel & hop around Europe, than they do Australia.

More took Short time jobs, or Worked out of UK into Europe than they do... Australia

emigration..for years Europe was still the Main destination....

The last few years Australia/NZealand have climbed Maybe outdoing Europe in doses , but OZ/NZS.Africa have a lot of returnees.

Where European expats tended to stay ,even some moving more times  to neighbouring country...

 

To be honest the last 5 years I Haven t Followed much in detail,even now for this post not looked into any data..

But Changing to favourite destination, doesn't mean consistent numbers,just more have favoured OZ...in a certain registared last period...

Also European emigration as Brexit got serious went up 30%...

 

I am sure on some UK Govt Home Office more Details could be found....Though again Returnees & other numbers on movement has not always been

an exact science. Eg: Dual Nationality Plus   declaring 1st/2nd domicile...Plus like me People have taken on the Nationality of their

Host nation, but Keep their UK Passport how do they go down or found in stats..I

Some have The Luxury of 2-3 passports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 January 2021 by fuchsntf

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, fuchsntf said:

Not foo sure what you mean "travel".....more UK Citizens travel & hop around Europe, than they do Australia.

More took Short time jobs, or Worked out of UK into Europe than they do... Australia

emigration..for years Europe was still the Main destination....

The last few years Australia/NZealand have climbed Maybe outdoing Europe in doses , but OZ/NZS.Africa have a lot of returnees.

Where European expats tended to stay ,even some moving more times  to neighbouring country...

 

To be honest the last 5 years I Haven t Followed much in detail,even now for this post not looked into any data..

But Changing to favourite destination, doesn't mean consistent numbers,just more have favoured OZ...in a certain registared last period...

Also European emigration as Brexit got serious went up 30%...

 

I am sure on some UK Govt Home Office more Details could be found....Though again Returnees & other numbers on movement has not always been

an exact science. Eg: Dual Nationality Plus   declaring 1st/2nd domicile...Plus like me People have taken on the Nationality of their

Host nation, but Keep their UK Passport how do they go down or found in stats..I

Some have The Luxury of 2-3 passports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are as many expats in Australia as there are in the EU as a whole. My point was and is that the removal of these perks aren’t detrimental to people moving and settling in other countries. As Mac says, we won’t know if that will change as it’s only been a few days, however it hasn’t stopped us going to places where the path is not so easy, so I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

[bovril]

17 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There are as many expats in Australia as there are in the EU as a whole. My point was and is that the removal of these perks aren’t detrimental to people moving and settling in other countries. As Mac says, we won’t know if that will change as it’s only been a few days, however it hasn’t stopped us going to places where the path is not so easy, so I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

It will make a difference. Brexit happened largely because people wanted to end FoM. If things continue as normal, what was the point?

Edited 2 January 2021 by bovril

[Clever Fox]

27 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There are as many expats in Australia as there are in the EU as a whole. My point was and is that the removal of these perks aren’t detrimental to people moving and settling in other countries. As Mac says, we won’t know if that will change as it’s only been a few days, however it hasn’t stopped us going to places where the path is not so easy, so I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

It has already made a difference. I know a few lads who have made Portugal their home years. Two were happy just to live their on their uk passport. One made the full transition years ago when he decided to stay.  He had a UK and a Portuguese Passport and that suited him fine as he came home regularly to visit his elderly Mother.

When he went to renew his PT Passport recently they took his Uk passport off him. Now he's a EU citizen but has lost the flexibility having both Passports gave him,

In the case of the first two. The legal system closing in on them made it necessary to take out residency. Little things like endless paperwork, or visits to Doctors and Hospitals.

Siilarly with the Cars. One had a uk reg Jag which he drove for years their even though he was stopped many times. Then all of a sudden he was being stopped daily and advised to 

remove it from the Country or transfer to a pt reg. Though he loved his Jag. He sold it and bought a pt car as he said he was getting too much hassle.

 

So to say it won't make a difference is not correct, It already has..

[Carl the Llama]

37 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There are as many expats in Australia as there are in the EU as a whole. My point was and is that the removal of these perks aren’t detrimental to people moving and settling in other countries. As Mac says, we won’t know if that will change as it’s only been a few days, however it hasn’t stopped us going to places where the path is not so easy, so I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

For one thing there are no more EU civil service positions open to UK residents so that's one slight difference without even thinking about things like what @FoxesDeb has been telling us from Spain.

[Strokes]

38 minutes ago, bovril said:

It will make a difference. Brexit happened largely because people wanted to end FoM. If things continue as normal, what was the point?

I didn’t say things would carry on as normal, I said it wouldn’t stop people from emigrating if they want too. 
We haven’t had these perks outside the EU, and people emigrate all over the world in big numbers.

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

For one thing there are no more EU civil service positions open to UK residents so that's one slight difference without even thinking about things like what @FoxesDeb has been telling us from Spain.

Job openings come and go all the time, it won’t stop people who want to emigrate from emigrating. It might change their target destination but it won’t stop them.

[Strokes]

21 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

It has already made a difference. I know a few lads who have made Portugal their home years. Two were happy just to live their on their uk passport. One made the full transition years ago when he decided to stay.  He had a UK and a Portuguese Passport and that suited him fine as he came home regularly to visit his elderly Mother.

When he went to renew his PT Passport recently they took his Uk passport off him. Now he's a EU citizen but has lost the flexibility having both Passports gave him,

In the case of the first two. The legal system closing in on them made it necessary to take out residency. Little things like endless paperwork, or visits to Doctors and Hospitals.

Siilarly with the Cars. One had a uk reg Jag which he drove for years their even though he was stopped many times. Then all of a sudden he was being stopped daily and advised to 

remove it from the Country or transfer to a pt reg. Though he loved his Jag. He sold it and bought a pt car as he said he was getting too much hassle.

 

So to say it won't make a difference is not correct, It already has..

I mean you taking the word difference and putting it in completely different context. It won’t make a difference to the amount of people emigrating.

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I didn’t say things would carry on as normal, I said it wouldn’t stop people from emigrating if they want too. 
We haven’t had these perks outside the EU, and people emigrate all over the world in big numbers.

 

Australia, NZ, Canada and the US have quite severe restrictions on who can emigrate (Qualifications, criminal record, for example); the EU was open to all.

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Australia, NZ, Canada and the US have quite severe restrictions on who can emigrate (Qualifications, criminal record, for example); the EU was open to all.

I know, that’s my point.

Its not stopped people going to them places in bigger numbers than the EU. 

[Buce]

Just now, Strokes said:

I know, that’s my point.

Its not stopped people going to them places in bigger numbers than the EU. 

 

No, it hasn't stopped qualified people.

 

Those who are not qualified still had the whole of Europe to live and work or retire in, something they no longer have.

[Carl the Llama]

Just now, Strokes said:

Job openings come and go all the time, it won’t stop people who want to emigrate from emigrating. It might change their target destination but it won’t stop them.

Jobs in the EU civil service don't come and go all the time, in this case it's a binary:  If you're in the EU you'll offer jobs in the EU institutions to your civil servants, if you aren't you won't.  Since these people are working in the civil service it's not the sort of thing the private sector can offset, that should be self-evident.

[Izzy]

What an innings by @Strokes 

 

Been at the crease for two days fending off bouncers from the remainers but he’s still there, not out.

 

Edited 2 January 2021 by Izzy

[Strokes]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No, it hasn't stopped qualified people.

 

Those who are not qualified still had the whole of Europe to live and work or retire in, something they no longer have.

Well that’s what I disliked about FOM, people taking jobs that the local unskilled could do. So that’s a good thing in my book.

[StanSP]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

What an innings by @Strokes 

 

Been at the crease for two days fending off bouncers from the remainers but he’s still there, not out.

 

In the end this can happen though

 

Ironically, 'out'. 

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Jobs in the EU civil service don't come and go all the time, in this case it's a binary:  If you're in the EU you'll offer jobs in the EU institutions to your civil servants, if you aren't you won't.  Since these people are working in the civil service it's not the sort of thing the private sector can offset, that should be self-evident.

We have plenty of foreigners working in our Civil Service, I’m sure jobs can be found in abroad that match there skill set if they really want it. 

[Carl the Llama]

4 minutes ago, Izzy said:

What an innings by @Strokes 

 

Been at the crease for two days fending off bouncers from the remainers but he’s still there, not out.

 

He's showing incredible staying power but he's still only got the one run from 50 overs 

 

[Buce]

16 minutes ago, Izzy said:

What an innings by @Strokes 

 

Been at the crease for two days fending off bouncers from the remainers but he’s still there, not out.

 

 

I'd give an answer to that if I knew what the fvck you're on about, bro, but golf just isn't my thing.

Edited 2 January 2021 by Buce

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

In the end this can happen though

 

Ironically, 'out'. 

State of that pitch

 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

He's showing incredible staying power but he's still only got the one run from 50 overs 

 

50 overs in 2 days? No wonder I’m not hitting them they must all be wides.

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

There are as many expats in Australia as there are in the EU as a whole. My point was and is that the removal of these perks aren’t detrimental to people moving and settling in other countries. As Mac says, we won’t know if that will change as it’s only been a few days, however it hasn’t stopped us going to places where the path is not so easy, so I doubt it will make the slightest difference.

Yep..didn t Stop Brits or Irish before the EU's  Schenged it...

[Carl the Llama]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

We have plenty of foreigners working in our Civil Service, I’m sure jobs can be found in abroad that match there skill set if they really want it. 

That's a key point, anecdotally a lot of these cases are people who would not have otherwise been planning on working abroad.

 

Besides it's irrelevant because that's not a new possibility since Brexit, with the EU institutions scrubbed it's a net loss for jobs however you try to spin it.  Plus it will depend entirely on which countries allow foreign nationals/non-EU nationals to work in their civil service which isn't something I've looked into.  But you don't care about that, you just don't want to admit you're wrong about it making a difference.