University

[Finnaldo]

Bit of a double-edged sword innit?

 

As someone who is probably not far older than him and whose friends have for the most part graduated, it’s really done to a few different factors.

You say he isn’t sure if he’s dedicated to another three years of academia, but he needs to ask himself exactly how much that’s the case. From what I’ve seen it’s very easy to get seriously disillusioned with a course, even if it’s a subject you previously had seriously enjoyed. By A Levels I was already somewhat tired of academics, and whilst I got passable grades, I seriously couldn’t see myself lasting another three high-pressure years. Two of my mates who went on to do History (which probably would’ve been what I went for) at University of Birmingham and both struggled at points and were both sick of it by the time they came out, and they both had better grades than me out of Sixth Form. Once you’re in it can be a real slog at times. That said, if he does truly enjoy the subject he wants to take a course in then he should do it. At that age you shouldn’t sacrifice any academic pursuit just to ‘get a job’, it isn’t a healthy mindset to take into adult life in my opinion. 
 

I notice as well a lot of people on here rubbishing degrees in ‘the arts’ in favour of more ‘vocational’ degrees in science, computing and engineering . I can see that to an extent but in practicality, it’s not necessarily true. There’s a massive shortage of teachers in general, and the government is throwing money at graduates in bursary form to do PGCEs (one year teacher training to the uninitiated) science teachers do receive the most from what i recall, but others do receive notable sums and it’s a proper career with tangible benefits (not many jobs you’re taking a 6 week break in summer! ) I have a few mates who have taken this route from non-vocational degrees, including one of the aforementioned history graduates, and it’s going well for them, and it takes what most would call ‘useless’ degrees and can make it into a very rewarding, well-paying and stable career. 
 

In terms of a year off, it’s probably a wise move if he’s unsure. As long as he’s doing something productive or rewarding, like a job or travelling, it gives him time to take some pressure off himself and consider his options. Ultimately it has to be his choice and if he’s unsure he should take the time to think about it. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

What sort of course is he looking at? 
In all fairness, if he’s clever which sounds so by his predicted grades I would not worry about him wasting his intellect. Providing he gets on to a solid apprentice scheme and is educated on what qualifications he will get from it, he will be fine. If he was to leave his sixth form he could easily get onto a reputable graduate scheme and get qualifications equal to a degree.

[Benguin]

Worst decision of my life to go uni. You should only go if you’re getting a valuable degree: I.e Law, medicine etc and want to work in that field. Spunking 30k on an Italian art or gender studies degree is nonsensical. If your son wants some fun before starting a career then he should go do a working holiday or a seasonal job like PGL etc

[Guest Col city fan]

Uni is so much more than doing a course and progressing academically!

It’s about making mates, getting pissed, joining societies, and in my case, playing football.

I look back on my uni years as having probably the biggest laff ever. 
It’s so much more than planning for your career. Bollox to that. That can come later

Like anything, Uni is about what you make of it. I recall our kid for instance was Freshers rep and just about lived in the boxing club.

And got a first degree (the first ever in the family)

[Wolfox]

In the end it’s up to him…. Your job as a dad is to give him options…

 

my eldest will most likely go away next year…  My only advice is to do something you enjoy doing, otherwise it’s likely to be a grind…

 

i don’t necessarily concur with other posters who’ve suggested that it’s only worth doing a specialist degree….  Surprisingly few people know what they want to do at 18…  My current job is not remotely related to my qualification, however, I couldn’t have applied for it unless I was a graduate…. It was 3 years well spent 

 

 

[Crinklyfox]

On 16/12/2019 at 17:16, Desabafar said:

My son is finishing his A-Levels this year and is unsure about whether he wants to go to university although he has decided he is definitely taking a year out. I didnt go to university myself and i am unsure on what advice to give him, i dont really know too much about it all to try to help him out. Im only 39 myself but it all seems a lot different when i was leaving school. He has told me that he is interested in some programmes that companies run for school leavers and he isnt sure whether he wants to do another 3 years of academic learning. I think it would be great for him to go to university and he has been predicted very good grades but ultimately its his decision. Ive said the cost isnt an issue as I will pay for his living costs but that doesnt seem to bother him and he doesnt seem excited by the lifestyle. I just think he is fed up of education but i feel itd be a shame not to use his intelligence.

 

They do seem to be push towards university these days so i am happy that he is giving it good consideration but i just dont know what advice to give. Ive done well despite not going to uni so we know its possible but it is a good thing for his job prospects. What are people's personal experiences of uni or kids going to uni and what advice do you give. There's a lot of options and i dont know how to help him with the decision, i dont want him getting lazy and wasting these years during his year off.

 

Does anybody know what other options there are

I went to Uni a long time ago so things may have changed, however..

 

1.  A year out is a great idea if it helps your son decide what he wants to do.  If there's no plan he may end up working in an industry he doesn't particularly like, or hopping from one short term job to another.  The upside is that it could give him the motivation to better himself or to clarify that he really didn't want further education.  Also, if he does work in an industry he likes he may be able to determine if a degree would be necessary to help his career.

 

2.  It depends on the course, but personally I didn't find Uni an easy ride.  There was a lot of studying and course work to do, and without the motivation to achieve some students simply gave up which was a waste of their time and money.   It's best if he really wants it before committing three years of his life.

 

3.  Have a read of the job requirements for what you perceive to be decent jobs on the net.  A lot of them will contain words such as ' You will have a degree in (subject or field)'.  A degree is used as a filter to exclude the less well educated, regardless of ability.

 

4.  A degree isn't an essential for a successful career, but it can help.  I wouldn't have had some of the opportunities in my own career without one.

 

 

[Detroit Blues]

I think the typical advice is to consider the career field your son is interested in, and work backwards to determine how to get there.

 

The problem that arises is that young people often do not know what they want to do for the rest of their life. I never had a clue what to answer when asked "what do you want to be when you grow up," I had never experienced being a lawyer, a doctor, or an engineer, so how would I know if that was something I would be interested in doing?

 

You're right that there is strong societal pressure to attend University. So much pressure, in fact, that a lot of people end up taking on debt to get degrees in fields that do not make financial sense. However, I feel like the narrative has gone so far against University that we've lost sight into its benefits.

 

The main benefits, in my (highly biased ) opinion are this:

 

1) You learn to learn. I know it sounds dumb, but I've found that in University, compared to prior education, the burden of teaching falls on the student. The class sizes are too big for the professors to ensure each student understands the material. You spend countless nights reading and re-reading the textbooks to try and learn the material so that you can finish the homework or pass the exams.

 

That ability to absorb information quickly, think on your feet, and explain concepts is something that University graduates are better at than their counterparts. This makes them more valuable in the workplace, and more flexible to adapting to other jobs/careers.

 

Many people will switch jobs and career fields in their lifetime, especially as we live longer and retire later. Also consider the rate that robotics and automation will replace jobs. Which jobs are the easiest to automate? Which jobs are the hardest? 

 

2) You have a better chance at getting your foot in the door. Not only is a degree often a pre-requisite, but attending University allows you to build connections in your field. You take classes with other students, work with professors, befriend people with connected parents/family, and become part of an alumni group.

 

The sad reality is, it's not what you know, it's who you know. The easiest way to get a high paying job at a young age is through getting a degree and working with your connections to secure an entry level position.

 

Getting that first job out of University often sets your career trajectory. Getting a job with a high salary out of the gate allows you to negotiate raises and job offers from a position of strength. 

 

3) I debated whether or not to leave this one in, because its value is much more subjective than the other two:

 

Those who graduate college often come out with a different set of beliefs/values than the ones they came with, and they make lifelong friendships including, quite potentially, their future spouse. Everyone's mileage may vary, but every dollar I spent on college was worth it to meet my wife, and many of my current friends. Just don't tell Mrs. Detroit that

 

 

I don't know you or your kid. Either way he'll likely turn out fine. But this would be the same advice I will tell my kid in 18-19 years. It is based on my lived experience, and it may work for them. But at the end of the day, it is their life, and their path to carve. By no means is a degree an indication that I am better than anyone without one, but education is a ladder of upward economic and societal mobility. It is a useful option at an increasingly outrageous cost. 

 

My apologies for the length of this post

 

 

 

 

[Beechey]

10 hours ago, Crinklyfox said:

I went to Uni a long time ago so things may have changed, however..

 

1.  A year out is a great idea if it helps your son decide what he wants to do.  If there's no plan he may end up working in an industry he doesn't particularly like, or hopping from one short term job to another.  The upside is that it could give him the motivation to better himself or to clarify that he really didn't want further education.  Also, if he does work in an industry he likes he may be able to determine if a degree would be necessary to help his career.

 

2.  It depends on the course, but personally I didn't find Uni an easy ride.  There was a lot of studying and course work to do, and without the motivation to achieve some students simply gave up which was a waste of their time and money.   It's best if he really wants it before committing three years of his life.

 

3.  Have a read of the job requirements for what you perceive to be decent jobs on the net.  A lot of them will contain words such as ' You will have a degree in (subject or field)'.  A degree is used as a filter to exclude the less well educated, regardless of ability.

 

4.  A degree isn't an essential for a successful career, but it can help.  I wouldn't have had some of the opportunities in my own career without one.

 

 

I wouldn't go as far to say this is untrue, but I would caution in saying that not having a degree will absolutely close doors in certain fields, but not all.

[Guest Fktf]

My main advice would be that, if he decides to apply, pick a course that he's genuinely interested in (as long as it is not the air guitar degree someone mentioned!).To echo other posters, uni isn't (always) an easy ride. Any course will require hours of personal study, and if the whole course is of no interest, chances of are he'll become disillusioned quite quickly. Students that don't enjoy the course skip personal study, and many also skip the lectures/classes, and at that point it becomes a waste of time and money. 

 

I wouldn't necessarily get too boged down with 'is there a clearly defined career path after graduation'. So if he's not sure on what to do in future life (most 18 year olds are not), taking a specialist degree may not be the best choice. There's lots of subjects that give you a range of skills that can transfer to many professions. For instance, business, geography, and psychology all have elements of data analysis, report writing, and presentation skills that are valuable in graduate jobs beyond those fields. Quite a few graduates from all of these courses end up in finance, marketing, HR, banking. 

 

Hard to give more concrete advice without knowing what courses he's considering. Has he given you any indication? 

 

[Guest Harrydc]

I can see why people would claim it's a waste of time, i'm so close to saying that myself at the moment. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

Did anyone attend either Newcastle University or Northumbria on here?

[Nick]

1 hour ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

Did anyone attend either Newcastle University or Northumbria on here?

No but if you are asking, all the pretty girls live in Jesmond.

[Steven]

As Britain has left the EU now, another reason for having a Degree is your potential mobility. It is so much easier to move around this world with a Degree than without.

 

I would also say that apart from the obvious social side, even I had a girlfriend during my University days  , what I learnt at University, in terms of self organisation and self discipline, has helped me manage many stressful and complex situations.

 

Finally I think the idea that a Degree somehow helps your career is somewhat misplaced. Your career will evolve over time and will go through more than one phase. I have a Computer Science degree and although I work in IT, it is of no use as the whole industry is still very craft based. Clearly it could be useful if you wanted to be in a specialised field.

 

The usefulness of a degree to an employer is not necessarily what you studied but the fact that you did study. 

 

 

[Osavo]

5 hours ago, Steven said:

As Britain has left the EU now, another reason for having a Degree is your potential mobility. It is so much easier to move around this world with a Degree than without.

 

I would also say that apart from the obvious social side, even I had a girlfriend during my University days  , what I learnt at University, in terms of self organisation and self discipline, has helped me manage many stressful and complex situations.

 

Finally I think the idea that a Degree somehow helps your career is somewhat misplaced. Your career will evolve over time and will go through more than one phase. I have a Computer Science degree and although I work in IT, it is of no use as the whole industry is still very craft based. Clearly it could be useful if you wanted to be in a specialised field.

 

The usefulness of a degree to an employer is not necessarily what you studied but the fact that you did study. 

 

 

This is an important point for me. Employers look at a degree as an aptitude for learning, something very useful in a job, and so as long as you've shown that you can study a decent, well respected subject and get a good result in it, it doesn't really matter what that subject is. 

[Desabafar]

my son has decided he is going to university next year, he wanted to have this year off and maybe go for something else but the economy means there aren't many options so he can might as well go to university for a few years. his grades were aab in the end. he is now considering a maths degree despite saying no before, apparently you can do maths and business together but also maybe economics or a language combined

 

what are the things that make you decide where to go? what makes a university good or not? what is it that means some universities are considered better what do they do different. as i understand exams aren't like at school where they are the same across the country. 

 

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, Desabafar said:

my son has decided he is going to university next year, he wanted to have this year off and maybe go for something else but the economy means there aren't many options so he can might as well go to university for a few years. his grades were aab in the end. he is now considering a maths degree despite saying no before, apparently you can do maths and business together but also maybe economics or a language combined

 

what are the things that make you decide where to go? what makes a university good or not? what is it that means some universities are considered better what do they do different. as i understand exams aren't like at school where they are the same across the country. 

 

Personally I think the more important thing probably is finding a city or town you're comfortable living in. Some people love being in a big city, others find it overwhelming and prefer being in a smaller city or large town.

It's true that Oxbridge and maybe Durham will have better reputation, but a friend of mine's son went to Durham a couple of years ago and struggled to fit in and make friends because he said he found it to be all full of public schoolboys who cared about wealth and their parent's status, so that might be a factor at the very high end ones.

Any redbrick university will have a better reputation than a non-redbrick one but how much that really matters I'm not sure (others might know more). Usually the best advise is to go and do an open day and spend the day in the city as well as looking round the university as the feel of the city is going to be as or more important than the university.

We took my son around 3 or 4 universities when we were looking a few years back and he ended up decided he wanted to go to Bristol because he liked the idea of a larger city (larger compared to here in Portsmouth where he grew up) with more nightlife more than anything on the course really and he's stayed in the city after his graduation because he enjoyed his time there.

However, I'm not sure how practical open days are in covid times unfortunately. Might even be worth telling him to go to a couple of cities for the day to get a feel of the city and look round the area and see the uni buildings from the outside even if he can't go and look round the university properly.

[UniFox21]

2 hours ago, Desabafar said:

my son has decided he is going to university next year, he wanted to have this year off and maybe go for something else but the economy means there aren't many options so he can might as well go to university for a few years. his grades were aab in the end. he is now considering a maths degree despite saying no before, apparently you can do maths and business together but also maybe economics or a language combined

 

what are the things that make you decide where to go? what makes a university good or not? what is it that means some universities are considered better what do they do different. as i understand exams aren't like at school where they are the same across the country. 

 

From the sounds of what he's described, economics could be for him, a mix of both maths and business. Could well be worth looking at course content for both business, econ and maths. 

 

Not hugely helpful currently, but when I went round the uni I ended up going to, it just felt right. I liked the campus, the area and the course itself. Most Univeristies are now doing online open days, so make sure to "book" those as they'll be happening around now. 

 

In terms of what makes a university "good" or "bad" is generally down to their league tables. If the university is well ranked for the course, it generally means they teach to a good standard, teach the right content and have decent facilities. This sometimes then helps with finding opportunities later on. For science at least, a "better" university has quality lab facilities, is involved with high quality research and offers well rounded content. 

 

In terms of what draws someone to the uni itself, its a mixture of things including location, the course, the campus, the accommodation for first year and other facilities such as the gym or student union.

For reference I graduated from one uni last year and now work at another, so like to think i have a decent idea on them. 

[Devonfox1884]

2 hours ago, Desabafar said:

my son has decided he is going to university next year, he wanted to have this year off and maybe go for something else but the economy means there aren't many options so he can might as well go to university for a few years. his grades were aab in the end. he is now considering a maths degree despite saying no before, apparently you can do maths and business together but also maybe economics or a language combined

 

what are the things that make you decide where to go? what makes a university good or not? what is it that means some universities are considered better what do they do different. as i understand exams aren't like at school where they are the same across the country. 

 

It’s all about feeling comfortable where you live for me. I’m in Cheltenham and absolutely love it.

 

I’m also not a fan of large, busy campuses and ours is fairly small and quiet which is a plus, too. It also allows me to have a closer relationship with my lecturers which I also feel is important.

[Guest Kopfkino]

The academic rigour is variable across unis and I suppose it's all a function of each other but it's down to the quality of student they can attract and the reputation they've amassed from their output, be it research or student, over a period of time. I think since Brian Cox has been teaching Physics at Manchester the entry requirements have gone up significantly and therefore so has the calibre of student being admitted.

 

There is significant difference in terms of what's expected of students. I remember a few years back Economics students at Sheffield calling a question on a third year paper impossible, although I think the wording a bit poor. Sheffield is supposed to be a decent uni and I found it pretty odd when I saw the question that third year students couldn't do it because that could easily have been a first year question for us. It required a bit of knowledge of A Level Maths and a bit of intuition which many on here could give a go at reasoning without formal teaching. It certainly shouldn't have felt impossible for a third year student especially compared to what we did. So I had a friend at Sheffield and I asked them to send me some past papers to have a look at the kind of stuff they had on it. They had multiple choice sections ffs and I did notice that a lot of it didn't go the extra steps we'd have been expected to, nor did the questions deviate from standard as much. Sheffield is likely much stronger in subjects that aren't economics. Tbf Oxford's Econ isn't that rigorous, certainly quantitatively, partly because they don't teach it as a standalone.

 

It's all about the rep the department has built up, whilst the research output has little impact on undergrads, it does govern the reputation and thus it's appeal for some of the big, and certainly prestige, employers. At the end of the day, the top academics tend towards the top departments, they tend to be more competitive, they get the best students in, and generally output the best students. When I went to an offer holder day at Birmingham, the head of department told me which unis to choose over Birmingham, it's just sort of something that has built up over time which is why the newer unis tend to be less well thought of. When you get further up the academic ladder, you look for more niche things around specific academics and overall uni rep becomes outweighed by the individual academic.

 

But when choosing a uni, as long as you're in a general ballpark it doesn't really matter. Location is important. If they wanna be in a big, bustling city, don't go to Durham or St Andrews. If they don't want to be with a bunch of posh people that didn't get into Oxford, don't go to Durham or St Andrews. If they don't like a college system, don't go to Durham. If they don't like people headbutting horses, don't go to Newcastle. If they want the 'typical' uni experience, don't study in London. Campus v city etc etc

 

[fuchsntf]

On 16/12/2019 at 18:16, Desabafar said:

My son is finishing his A-Levels this year and is unsure about whether he wants to go to university although he has decided he is definitely taking a year out. I didnt go to university myself and i am unsure on what advice to give him, i dont really know too much about it all to try to help him out. Im only 39 myself but it all seems a lot different when i was leaving school. He has told me that he is interested in some programmes that companies run for school leavers and he isnt sure whether he wants to do another 3 years of academic learning. I think it would be great for him to go to university and he has been predicted very good grades but ultimately its his decision. Ive said the cost isnt an issue as I will pay for his living costs but that doesnt seem to bother him and he doesnt seem excited by the lifestyle. I just think he is fed up of education but i feel itd be a shame not to use his intelligence.

 

They do seem to be push towards university these days so i am happy that he is giving it good consideration but i just dont know what advice to give. Ive done well despite not going to uni so we know its possible but it is a good thing for his job prospects. What are people's personal experiences of uni or kids going to uni and what advice do you give. There's a lot of options and i dont know how to help him with the decision, i dont want him getting lazy and wasting these years during his year off.

 

Does anybody know what other options there are

I like the idea some of my German Relations(through marriage) and ex-colleges did....They Left School, took on a Good job, or some Short Term apprenticeships,

Then returns to Uni education in their then chosen field...

Ps.   A few years back, many of my Top bosses,from France,Germany & USA...Engin.& IT.  Did Apprenticeships & learnt the shopfloor,before

        Diving into earning their degrees...