University

[Desabafar]

My son is finishing his A-Levels this year and is unsure about whether he wants to go to university although he has decided he is definitely taking a year out. I didnt go to university myself and i am unsure on what advice to give him, i dont really know too much about it all to try to help him out. Im only 39 myself but it all seems a lot different when i was leaving school. He has told me that he is interested in some programmes that companies run for school leavers and he isnt sure whether he wants to do another 3 years of academic learning. I think it would be great for him to go to university and he has been predicted very good grades but ultimately its his decision. Ive said the cost isnt an issue as I will pay for his living costs but that doesnt seem to bother him and he doesnt seem excited by the lifestyle. I just think he is fed up of education but i feel itd be a shame not to use his intelligence.

 

They do seem to be push towards university these days so i am happy that he is giving it good consideration but i just dont know what advice to give. Ive done well despite not going to uni so we know its possible but it is a good thing for his job prospects. What are people's personal experiences of uni or kids going to uni and what advice do you give. There's a lot of options and i dont know how to help him with the decision, i dont want him getting lazy and wasting these years during his year off.

 

Does anybody know what other options there are

[srbfox]

What courses/uni’s is he interested in?

 

I would only recommend going to uni if it’s a course/uni that can offer a good career. There are a lot of courses nowadays which have no relevance in the workplace. 

 

I went to uni and while it was fun and I made a lot of friends, I learnt nothing educational or life (probably my fault). My degree is completely irrelevant in my current career. 

 

Nowadays I manage a number number of individuals who are straight out of uni and I am really surprised by the lack of common sense, judgement and general life skills by some. Don’t get me wrong some are very intelligent but they do lack the skills needed in life. 

 

A good uni and a good uni course can really propel a career but I would choose wisely. I have mates and family members who went to uni and are excelling in the careers because of it, the majority of those took a year out before hand or took a year placement during their studies. 

 

My advice, take that year out and get some experience, find a course and university that can actually offer work placements. 

 

 

[Izzy]

I can't help with Uni advice but I'm guessing @UniFox21 could 

[bovril]

I agree that a year out is a good idea. I kind of rushed into going to uni and ended up doing something I didn't enjoy that much. I enjoyed the uni experience, but I wish I'd taken more time to find something that was really useful for me.

[UniFox21]

This topic is made for me 

 

So for me I finished A-levels, went straight into my 4 year masters degree and graduated from it in July. University was one of the best decisions I made, minus the bloody hard work, it was frankly incredible. 

I start my first grad job in January after a 3 or 4 month search, which isn't my dream job but it'll sure as hell give me experience and money to either get a more senior role or do a PhD. I know people who got a job a lot quicker than me and others who are taking a year out. 

 

If he's taking a year out for definite I'd make sure he got a job so he can experience what work life is like. I know a few people who travelled or worked for a year prior to starting just to take a break from studying. 

 

What course is he looking at and what universities?  

 

If he hasn't looked around any open days, I'd make sure he does before hand. You can get a real sense of how you'll fit in at a place from looking around and if you'd want to spend 3 years there. University can really help a person develop, living away from home can really help you mature and develop skills you wouldn't get living at home. 

 

But it isn't for everyone, and if he doesn't want to go there are loads of other options out there. My friend trained to be an accountant at college rather than uni for instance. 

It's a dilemma my brothers going through currently. 

 

If I haven't explained anything as much as you'd like or have any other questions then I'm happy to answer them! 

[Leicester_Loyal]

Depends on the degree. I went to university and did a degree which plenty of others did and it hasn't really helped me out at all.

 

I'd always recommend an apprenticeship if the degree isn't a specialist field.

[VLC86]

1 hour ago, Desabafar said:

My son is finishing his A-Levels this year and is unsure about whether he wants to go to university although he has decided he is definitely taking a year out. I didnt go to university myself and i am unsure on what advice to give him, i dont really know too much about it all to try to help him out. Im only 39 myself but it all seems a lot different when i was leaving school. He has told me that he is interested in some programmes that companies run for school leavers and he isnt sure whether he wants to do another 3 years of academic learning. I think it would be great for him to go to university and he has been predicted very good grades but ultimately its his decision. Ive said the cost isnt an issue as I will pay for his living costs but that doesnt seem to bother him and he doesnt seem excited by the lifestyle. I just think he is fed up of education but i feel itd be a shame not to use his intelligence.

 

They do seem to be push towards university these days so i am happy that he is giving it good consideration but i just dont know what advice to give. Ive done well despite not going to uni so we know its possible but it is a good thing for his job prospects. What are people's personal experiences of uni or kids going to uni and what advice do you give. There's a lot of options and i dont know how to help him with the decision, i dont want him getting lazy and wasting these years during his year off.

Let him go to Uni and shag/drink/drug himself senseless.

 

Obviously I didn’t go which is why I’m a huge virgin.

[Sampson]

As cliche parental advice as it is and its probably not the advice the kid wants to hear, but it's not really particuarly worth it economically if it's not a specialised degree.

 

Too many people have degrees now that they're not really as useful as they once were as there's too much competition for certain graduates now.

 

If he wants to go do Economics, Engineering or Computer Networking or something then it's definitely worth doing, if he just wants to do English,  Media or an arts course he's likely to end up regretting it. It's not going to add much to his wages and will take away a fair bit paying back loans later in life and the 3 years of opportunity cost you're losing by taking out of work, where you could work your way up a decent admin etc. job or do an apprenticeship in that 3 years and have a decent income and work experience by the end of it instead could easily end up losing £50k-70k just on missing out what you can earn in your first 3 years of work (and that 3 years of experience will probably look better to most future employers than an English degree).

 

That's just from a degree point of view though, there is also the experience of leaving home etc., making lifelong friends and getting responsibility etc. which can certainly be gained and be very helpful for some at that age (but can also equally be gained in the work place), but can also bit a bit too overwhelming and too much at once for others. You probably know how your son will react to that better than anyone.

 

It's a difficult one as a parent to balance telling very young adults who don't have the life/workplace experience yet to follow their dreams with also being realistic and taking into account that it's not necessarily going to be worthwhile.

 

You've got to let him make up his own life at the end of the day, I'd definitely remind him of other alternatives like trying full-time work or apprenticeship for a year or two as he can always go back to university later if he's unsure 

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, Sampson said:

If he wants to go do Economics, Engineering or Computer Networking or something then it's definitely worth doing, if he just wants to do English,  Media or an arts course he's likely to end up regretting

This is a good point, some degrees aren't worth it, unless you're sure you want to go into that field. Degrees also do allow you to apply for grad scheme jobs in a variety of fields. So it's a mix and match tbh.

 

I know for me personally, going out of my comfort zone at home and moving out allowed me to learn things I wouldn't had i stayed at home. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Sampson said:

You've got to let him make up his own life at the end of the day, I'd definitely remind him of other alternatives like trying full-timw work or apprenticeship for a year or two as he can always go back to university later if he's unsure 

If he enjoys education and learning new topics, uni is probably for him. But you're right it's all about what they want to do. A lot go because they feel they need to rather than because they want to.

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

This really depends on a ton of factors, what someone might want to study being the place to start and then moving onto uni choice. The Economist recently produced a good graphic and piece about earnings (not that this is necessarily the be all and end all of course) for different courses, basically showing that studying Maths, Comp Sci, Physics and Economics at a top uni (its kinda obvious anyway, they go use their quant skills in finance) is the way to make money. Its American focussed but its largely true for the UK. But there's so much more to uni (networks, social life, the whole experience, just enjoying learning) than that and its important to do something you enjoy.

 

Applying that to the UK, at a basic level you would say:

 

There are 5 absolute elite unis in the UK; Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, LSE, UCL where its an absolute no brainer. These are superb for career prospects and academic rigour. For example, we pretty much exclusively recruit from the first 4 (despite pretending other things matter), even at more senior levels, unless there's something standout on a CV (I absolutely don't agree with this policy btw)

There are then a good deal of absolutely fantastic universities, most of the Russell Group (not that RG is relevant for undergrad students) and a few that aren't part of that, for example (not exhaustive and not necessarily equal); Warwick, Nottingham, Bristol, Bath, Edinburgh, Manchester, St Andrews

Then a bunch of still really great unis(not exhaustive); Leicester, Liverpool, Queen Mary, Surrey, Newcastle, Cardiff

Then there's a load of decent unis: Kent, Royal Holloway, Loughborough, Reading, Sussex

After that there's a host of unis where it pretty much it depends what you study for places like: Keele, Brookes, Coventry, Portsmouth and getting progressively worse

Then there's the don't waste your time: Chichester, Bolton, Sunderland, London Met, London South Bank

 

The top two categories are always worth it, the next category is worth it most of the time and definitely be looking out for degrees that offer placement years or are massively academic and focussed. After that it becomes much more important to get subject right and for the uni to be good in that area. Of course, there are nuances involved with it all and places have their niches which they are great for, beyond their general reputation. For example, Reading (whilst still pretty good) is the place to be for meteorology, Brookes is good for architecture, Stratchclyde for Pharmacy. Also even the lesser unis can be a stepping stone to good postgrad courses at the better unis. A first degree here that someone enjoys and really excels in can be great to spark interest to pursue further elsewhere. And obviously some professions require a university qualification, for example to become an architect you need to do your 7 years studying, not really much of another option.

 

As I alluded to, some of the top professions are very picky on unis so it should be known that some things, real prestige careers, do become out of reach depending on uni name even at really good unis (individuals can always break that but its harder). The top strategy houses are very picky, the top investments banks a little less so but still, similar for the top magic circle law firms, and some departments in the Big 4.

Also though, the school leaver things can be pretty good. I mean if you got a school leaver thing at pwc or the like then well worth it over going to uni, can just visit friends at the weekend to get some of the experience. And even someone thats really capable and driven coming out of uni can really use those 3 years they don't spend at uni in a way that sets them up better than uni could have.

 

 

[UniFox21]

9 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

There are then a good deal of absolutely fantastic universities, most of the Russell Group (not that RG is relevant for undergrad students) and a few that aren't part of that, for example (not exhaustive and not necessarily equal); Warwick, Nottingham, Bristol, Bath, Edinburgh, Manchester, St Andrews

Not to be annoying but all those unis bar St Andrews and Bath are RG universities, unless you've meant that and I've misread it 

[Fox1970]

I went to university in 1980, graduated, had a successful career with my degree, took early retirement in 2013 and have started a MA at DMU, just for the love of learning. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

2 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Not to be annoying but all those unis bar St Andrews and Bath are RG universities, unless you've meant that and I've misread it 

Nah its just dead clumsy of me, I didn't mean it as they were example of non-RG but those are examples of unis in that bracket as a whole. 

[EastAnglianFox]

I'd always say go for it after my experience, I was a mature student at 23 and only went because I was sick of working 60 hours a week yet my University mates always seemed to have more money than me and certainly more women in their phone contacts list. 

 

I wasn't the brightest but couldn't believe my luck that not only was I unconditionally accepted but it was with a university that offered a degree in football studies!!... But they did also offer a course in playing the Air Guitar (I kid you not) 

 

Anyway it had no bearing on the career I'm in now, I am still in debt, and worst of all the women never really came knocking but in all seriousness I wouldn't change those 3 years for anything..absolutely great times. 

 

 

[cambridgefox]

My daughter was unsure about University.

She took a year out travelled and worked for Lloyds.

Lloyds were impressed and managed to get her a job whilst doing her degree.

Think a mixture of work and fun is important as the work shows you the real world.

She absolutely loves it,only came back for a day for a family wedding,I know not all are the same but she said she was so pleased she decided to go.

Her course is fairly full on MSci ( 4 years) but if it’s something your son enjoys he should be fine.

Good luck whatever his decision.

@Kopfkino might be a wrong move,but she went to the open day at UCL and the sheer arrogance of the staff put her off.She had already got her grades.The day was so disorganised they even said that there was no one to speak about her course on the day,even though we had booked taster lectures.Probably a bad experience.

University of Nottingham were the exact opposite,so much so she didn’t even go to Edinburgh or Warwick.

 

Go to the taster days and get a feel,I think it’s important you feel comfortable.This according to my daughter.

 

 

[Guest Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, cambridgefox said:

 

@Kopfkino might be a wrong move,but she went to the open day at UCL and the sheer arrogance of the staff put her off.She had already got her grades.The day was so disorganised they even said that there was no one to speak about her course on the day,even though we had booked taster lectures.Probably a bad experience.

University of Nottingham were the exact opposite,so much so she didn’t even go to Edinburgh or Warwick.

 

Go to the taster days and get a feel,I think it’s important you feel comfortable.This according to my daughter.

 

 

Oh no absolutely probably was the right move. I chose uni based solely on brand name, prestige, and career prospects and actively hated my experience for two years. It's important to have a good feel for the place and its not like the difference between UCL and Nottingham is big enough to risk hating the place and things going to shit, being a student in Nottingham would be better than London anyway. A happy 4 years at Notts would probably make you more employable than miserable 4 at UCL.

[Desabafar]

3 hours ago, srbfox said:

What courses/uni’s is he interested in?

 

I would only recommend going to uni if it’s a course/uni that can offer a good career. There are a lot of courses nowadays which have no relevance in the workplace. 

 

I went to uni and while it was fun and I made a lot of friends, I learnt nothing educational or life (probably my fault). My degree is completely irrelevant in my current career. 

 

Nowadays I manage a number number of individuals who are straight out of uni and I am really surprised by the lack of common sense, judgement and general life skills by some. Don’t get me wrong some are very intelligent but they do lack the skills needed in life. 

 

A good uni and a good uni course can really propel a career but I would choose wisely. I have mates and family members who went to uni and are excelling in the careers because of it, the majority of those took a year out before hand or took a year placement during their studies. 

 

My advice, take that year out and get some experience, find a course and university that can actually offer work placements. 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

This topic is made for me 

 

So for me I finished A-levels, went straight into my 4 year masters degree and graduated from it in July. University was one of the best decisions I made, minus the bloody hard work, it was frankly incredible. 

I start my first grad job in January after a 3 or 4 month search, which isn't my dream job but it'll sure as hell give me experience and money to either get a more senior role or do a PhD. I know people who got a job a lot quicker than me and others who are taking a year out. 

 

If he's taking a year out for definite I'd make sure he got a job so he can experience what work life is like. I know a few people who travelled or worked for a year prior to starting just to take a break from studying. 

 

What course is he looking at and what universities?  

 

If he hasn't looked around any open days, I'd make sure he does before hand. You can get a real sense of how you'll fit in at a place from looking around and if you'd want to spend 3 years there. University can really help a person develop, living away from home can really help you mature and develop skills you wouldn't get living at home. 

 

But it isn't for everyone, and if he doesn't want to go there are loads of other options out there. My friend trained to be an accountant at college rather than uni for instance. 

It's a dilemma my brothers going through currently. 

 

If I haven't explained anything as much as you'd like or have any other questions then I'm happy to answer them! 

I think he knows what he doesnt want to do rather than what he wants to do. As I say he is taking a year out anyway and i think its ridiculous that you have to being making applications and deciding before you know what grades you have. I am not sure what he is predicted in the end as he had an argumetn with his teacher about it but think its two A and one B but he thinks the B should be A but he can go somewhere good anyway. He is good at maths but says he doesnt enjoy its so has ruled out maths and science and engineering. He likes economics but apparently thats maths too. He says hes interersted in business courses so i think thats what he has been looking at. I hoped he wouldnt rule out all those courses because of maths and hopefully he might reconsider.

 

He is hoping to do some travelling and maybe work abroad and i think a year out will do him some good, its good to get other experiences. If I'm honest I think he has no idea what he wants and its overwhelming him. Are open days like taster days or are they just showing you around and marketing themselves cos the former might help him more?

[UniFox21]

10 minutes ago, Desabafar said:

 

 

I think he knows what he doesnt want to do rather than what he wants to do. As I say he is taking a year out anyway and i think its ridiculous that you have to being making applications and deciding before you know what grades you have. I am not sure what he is predicted in the end as he had an argumetn with his teacher about it but think its two A and one B but he thinks the B should be A but he can go somewhere good anyway. He is good at maths but says he doesnt enjoy its so has ruled out maths and science and engineering. He likes economics but apparently thats maths too. He says hes interersted in business courses so i think thats what he has been looking at. I hoped he wouldnt rule out all those courses because of maths and hopefully he might reconsider.

 

He is hoping to do some travelling and maybe work abroad and i think a year out will do him some good, its good to get other experiences. If I'm honest I think he has no idea what he wants and its overwhelming him. Are open days like taster days or are they just showing you around and marketing themselves cos the former might help him more?

So open days are your claasic showing you around and marketing things. However, some universities give better tours and information than others. I found birmingham uni open day poor, but the Nottingham one really insightful. If you get an offer to study at the university, you get an offer holder day. They're a lot more personal, you get another department tour but everything is smaller scale, normally you get a taster lecture or small tutorial group to show what ways you're taught. These give better ways to ask questions and find out about the course. If he found a few he liked it could be worth emailing a lecturer or the person sorting undergrad applications at the specific university for more info. 

 

In terms of course; economics was fairly heavy in maths, a housemate in first year struggled with those aspects. But as you get on you get significantly greater choice over modules, so he'd potentially be able to choose less maths based aspects. It's all things worth looking into. I know Warwick has a really good business school, so that's one to look at. You'll notice courses vary, make sure he checks courses for module content and any course recognition from groups like the royal societies etc. 

 

And applying prior to knowing your results is just to make the amount of admin and paper work easier, otherwise it would be a huge turnaround given results are in August and some terms start in September. There's this thing called "clearing " where if you didnt meet your offer and can't get into your first choice uni you can search for another. Same if you've done a lot better and can get into a 'better' university. 

[Fox1970]

1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

I know Warwick has a really good business school

My daughter has a senior position there.  It's a good faculty. But I would say that. 

[UniFox21]

4 minutes ago, Fox1970 said:

My daughter has a senior position there.  It's a good faculty. But I would say that. 

I went to the uni but different subject altogether, i just know its pretty good and gets a decent amount of funding 

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Desabafar said:

 

 

I think he knows what he doesnt want to do rather than what he wants to do. As I say he is taking a year out anyway and i think its ridiculous that you have to being making applications and deciding before you know what grades you have. I am not sure what he is predicted in the end as he had an argumetn with his teacher about it but think its two A and one B but he thinks the B should be A but he can go somewhere good anyway. He is good at maths but says he doesnt enjoy its so has ruled out maths and science and engineering. He likes economics but apparently thats maths too. He says hes interersted in business courses so i think thats what he has been looking at. I hoped he wouldnt rule out all those courses because of maths and hopefully he might reconsider.

 

He is hoping to do some travelling and maybe work abroad and i think a year out will do him some good, its good to get other experiences. If I'm honest I think he has no idea what he wants and its overwhelming him. Are open days like taster days or are they just showing you around and marketing themselves cos the former might help him more?

If he is interested in business, I'd say don't study it just do it. This is based on doing a degree in business studies and learning nothing of use. 

 

It's a tough decision there are so many non academic skills you learn at University that I would say it was hugely beneficial to me going, even if I didn't learn anything useful. That was before fees were extortionate.

 

If he doesn't know what he wants to do Uni probably won't help him decide but it will set him in good stead for most careers. The alternative is do what a friend of mine did which is start working in something they are interested in, in her case fashion retail, found something she wanted to do, was told she needed a degree to do it so went and studied that (international merchandising). She now handles the Asian markets for a large fashion brand.

 

As others have said, go to open days, stay in the application process, if you don't get the application in you can't go. Keep all options open if he has some offers he doesn't have to take them.

[Stadt]

I'm in my final year now (at a former poly, Sheff Hallam). My sentiments are basically the same as a lot of posters in here - its been fantastic for me as a person but I don't feel like it's necessary for a better career and sometimes even detrimental. Going to university abroad seems more appealing to me now than it did at 16/17. Generally, there's more teaching hours and tuition fees are significantly lower.

[SemperEadem]

Would always say to anyone that has the shot at going to Uni to do it. Can be three fantastic years.

 

However what I would say from my time as a student and working afterwards in the education environment still is that going to Uni and getting a degree is now not enough. Only perhaps so if you are at a top University. 

It's now so much about volunteering whilst you a there, part time job, placement and generally networking in the city whilst you have your time there.

[ozleicester]

4 minutes ago, SemperEadem said:

Would always say to anyone that has the shot at going to Uni to do it. Can be three fantastic years.

 

However what I would say from my time as a student and working afterwards in the education environment still is that going to Uni and getting a degree is now not enough. Only perhaps so if you are at a top University. 

It's now so much about volunteering whilst you a there, part time job, placement and generally networking in the city whilst you have your time there.

If this is true... i....i.... am speechless

[foxile5]

Educator here. Currently studying a Masters degree and have 2 prior degrees from 2 different universities.

 

University will only be beneficial if he makes it so - merely going for the lifestyle won't have any real impact whatsoever. Like with most choices educationally, it is what you make of it. 

 

Ostensibly thats all the advice I can give. It'll only be any good for him if he wants it to be.