Leader?

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Hugely disappointing as it is, we have to move on on learn from the semi final defeat. 

 

I think we lack an outfield leader badly, vocally and by their own actions, especially in times of adversity in games. Kasper is too far removed in goal. We lacked that last night and in recent league games. 

 

It is still a young team on the whole, easy to overlook that. Hopefully someone will emerge from within. Usually midfield is the area that offers up that type of player. I thought Youri might but he is struggling with his own game at the moment. I can't see Wilf being vocal enough to don the leader's mantle.  None of the others spring to mind other than perhaps Hamza in the future if he develops.

 

Thoughts? 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Although not an in your face, shouting at folk to gee them up type of leader I’d say Vardy is a leader in so much that he leads by example and with him in the side the other players will feel they have a chance against anyone.

 

I get your point though, I think centre back through to the middle of the park there’s a real general type personality missing in there. Soyuncu looks like he could develop into that sort of personality mind you. 
 

Take the above with a pinch of salt obviously given I don’t watch the team week in week out.

[StriderHiryu]

1 minute ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Hugely disappointing as it is, we have to move on on learn from the semi final defeat. 

 

I think we lack an outfield leader badly, vocally and by their own actions, especially in times of adversity in games. Kasper is too far removed in goal. We lacked that last night and in recent league games. 

 

It is still a young team on the whole, easy to overlook that. Hopefully someone will emerge from within. Usually midfield is the area that offers up that type of player. I thought Youri might but he is struggling with his own game at the moment. I can't see Wilf being vocal enough to don the leader's mantle.  None of the others spring to mind other than perhaps Hamza in the future if he develops.

 

Thoughts? 

We do lack an outfield leader, especially in midfield where we don't have a commanding presence there to get hold of the game, and that has cost us in big games especially. That said I always see Tielemans conducting the midfield, pointing out which players are free and talking to his teammates constantly, which is superb and makes me think he's the most likely to become that leader. What he doesn't have is the ability to pull everyone's performance up a level (including his own) when things aren't happening. That could well come with time though as he's still a young player in football terms.

However, we didn't lost to Villa through a lack of leadership! We made enough chances over both legs to win and lost it because we didn't take our chances and they did. 

[Guest Cujek]

3 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Although not an in your face, shouting at folk to gee them up type of leader I’d say Vardy is a leader in so much that he leads by example and with him in the side the other players will feel they have a chance against anyone.

 

I get your point though, I think centre back through to the middle of the park there’s a real general type personality missing in there. Soyuncu looks like he could develop into that sort of personality mind you. 
 

Take the above with a pinch of salt obviously given I don’t watch the team week in week out.

I dont think Vardy would make a good captain, he is not involved enough and i dont think he can control his mouth when he needs to, he has a lot of the atteibutes to be a captain but he has a lot of attributes that would make him not a good captain also.

 

I have never been a fan of goalies being captains, of course there are exceptions (Neuer / Kahn / Seaman) but on the whole they are to far removed from a lot of the action to get involved effectively.

 

 

im not sure what the answer is, but we need to do something.

 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

We do lack an outfield leader, especially in midfield where we don't have a commanding presence there to get hold of the game, and that has cost us in big games especially. That said I always see Tielemans conducting the midfield, pointing out which players are free and talking to his teammates constantly, which is superb and makes me think he's the most likely to become that leader. What he doesn't have is the ability to pull everyone's performance up a level (including his own) when things aren't happening. That could well come with time though as he's still a young player in football terms.

However, we didn't lost to Villa through a lack of leadership! We made enough chances over both legs to win and lost it because we didn't take our chances and they did. 

Don't disagree with your last paragraph. But I think with a commanding presence we would have gone through comfortably. Grealish was excellent for them in that respect. 

[Stoopid]

4 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Don't disagree with your last paragraph. But I think with a commanding presence we would have gone through comfortably. Grealish was excellent for them in that respect. 

Agreed - possibly an unpopular opinion right now, but I also think Grealish tipped it for Villa. He gives them something beyond his ability (which is considerable). They take belief and industry (fight, if you like) from him and last night that kept them in it to the end (as against Watford) when really we should have seen them off.

Intangible, but vital.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

We don't really have one at the moment. Kasper is physically too far away from the action in goal to get in the lads' ears and to pick up issues with the ref. Evans is OK and would probably be my shout for the captaincy next season, but that would get Kasper's knickers in a twist. Caglar is a mental bastard but too young and his English is a problem. There's nothing in the midfield or the wings really worth speaking about in terms of seasoned leaders, people talk about Youri but clearly situations like last night are too much for him at the moment. 

 

Vards is the one but I'd be wary pinning too much on him , we already rely on him to get the goals, he can't be the leader/Mr Motivator as well on top of that. 

[StriderHiryu]

39 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Don't disagree with your last paragraph. But I think with a commanding presence we would have gone through comfortably. Grealish was excellent for them in that respect. 

Grealish was arguably the best over both legs, but I think lots of people on here are being very harsh on our team. First leg they took the lead completely against the run of play, but managed to find an equaliser. Our manager came out and said it was his fault for playing 352 in that game and it didn't work.

 

2nd leg we start off like a house on fire and could easily have been a couple of goals up, and then they again score against the run of play. Again we stick in the game and fight back to 1-1 before a bad mistake gives them the tie. So I don't think we were mentally weak, we just didn't take our chances.

 

Where I agree with you though is a that a top central midfielder would be able to play on the emotions of the crowd and momentum of the game and turn 1-1 to 2-1 to us and win the tie. Players like Xavi, Scholes, Iniesta, Pirlo, Modric, Kroos, Fabregas, KDB and David Silva all had / have that ability. We definitely played better after equalising in both legs but played it too safe instead of going for the jugular and finishing the tie. But look at the calibre of player I have mentioned here; these are some of the best midfielders in Europe over the last 10 years and all ended up at the very best clubs. That is a level which very few players get to! 

 

I could compare the Villa game a little bit to England vs Croatia in the World Cup. We took the lead and looked the better team, but then stood of Croatia and let them play, then Modric realises this and took the game by the scruff of the neck and not only do they equalise, he smells blood and knows they can beat us in normal time, which they do. That's what a top commanding central midfielder does for a team, and what we failed to do in either leg of the tie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 29 January 2020 by StriderHiryu

[RowlattsFox]

Evans is the nearest thing we have to a leader, tries to organize things the best he can but we need others. Kasper isn't a captain, he just shouts a lot. Don't really see Vardy as a captain either, the midfielder is where we lack a bit of organization and experience. Hopefully that comes with time but for now its missing in key moments.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

Might not be a good thing. But given that Maddison is or should be a shoe in for his proper position, would the captaincy suit him? Some flourish with the added responsibility, others don't. Perhaps he is tasked with outfield leadership now? 

Edited 29 January 2020 by Cadno'r Cymoedd

[Winchesterfox]

I a

5 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Hugely disappointing as it is, we have to move on on learn from the semi final defeat. 

 

I think we lack an outfield leader badly, vocally and by their own actions, especially in times of adversity in games. Kasper is too far removed in goal. We lacked that last night and in recent league games. 

 

It is still a young team on the whole, easy to overlook that. Hopefully someone will emerge from within. Usually midfield is the area that offers up that type of player. I thought Youri might but he is struggling with his own game at the moment. I can't see Wilf being vocal enough to don the leader's mantle.  None of the others spring to mind other than perhaps Hamza in the future if he develops.

 

Thoughts? 

Yes I agree with this.  Having a young team with so much skill and potential is great, but I think we're a bit short of leadership when things get tough.  I think we need someone in the middle of the pitch with a bit more grit and nous, who can marshall and drive the team on when needed, and bawl them out when they don't track back or press, etc.   Even better if they aren't quite as nice, and can put in a few more crunching tackles and tactiical fouls when needed.  

[Guest Danny Clender]

I felt this last night, not sure if it's connected, but thought it more from a physical side.

We're a little light in the pounding sense, we're extremely skilful, but don't offer that brute of a player to fight back.

Of course this does link well with Grealish's angry side, he's not afraid to throw his weight around if he needs to. 

 

I understand you can't have everything, but it really showed last night how frail we can be when a real tussle is all that's needed in situations like last night. 

[Guest Cujek]

13 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Might not be a good thing. But given that Maddison is or should a shoe in for his proper position, would the captaincy suit him? Some flourish with the added responsibility, others don't. Perhaps he is tasked with outfield leadership now? 

I was thinking maybe him being captain would give him more responsibility and stop some of the silliness, he is very well spoken and intelligent (apart from his bag choices).

 

I think we could do a lot worse.

[themightyfin]

We are not short of leaders on the pitch. 

Evans

Vardy

Youri 

Maddison

 

Are all very vocal and leaders on the pitch.

I feel we are just looking for reasons to why we are not winning every game as some think we should be.

We are a young side 3rd on the league with great cup runs and 90% of football fans would swop our season for theirs right now.

 

We are on the verge of our second greatest season ever let's enjoy it and embrace it.

We are not going to win every game and there will be bumps in the road.

This is where fans play a very important part. 

Keep the faith and support your team. 

 

[Katy]

I’ve never really liked having goalkeepers as captains because, as has been said, they’re too far away from the action (apart from corners). Never really liked Kasper being captain either, Wes has been a great and it’s a shame he’s reaching the end of his career and doesn’t play much anymore. 
 

I’m not sure if Tielemans is being groomed for being the next captain, he’s in the leadership group now but seems really quiet. I dunno. I reckon Evans is the best bet - cool, calm and well respected but like others have said, Kasper would kick off.  

[StriderHiryu]

3 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

We are not short of leaders on the pitch. 

Evans

Vardy

Youri 

Maddison

 

Are all very vocal and leaders on the pitch.

I feel we are just looking for reasons to why we are not winning every game as some think we should be.

We are a young side 3rd on the league with great cup runs and 90% of football fans would swop our season for theirs right now.

 

We are on the verge of our second greatest season ever let's enjoy it and embrace it.

We are not going to win every game and there will be bumps in the road.

This is where fans play a very important part. 

Keep the faith and support your team. 

 

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

30 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

We are not short of leaders on the pitch. 

Evans

Vardy

Youri 

Maddison

 

Are all very vocal and leaders on the pitch.

I feel we are just looking for reasons to why we are not winning every game as some think we should be.

We are a young side 3rd on the league with great cup runs and 90% of football fans would swop our season for theirs right now.

 

We are on the verge of our second greatest season ever let's enjoy it and embrace it.

We are not going to win every game and there will be bumps in the road.

This is where fans play a very important part. 

Keep the faith and support your team. 

 

Don't agree sorry. No one, or at least not me. is looking for excuses or reasons for last night. The lack of a talismanic leader outfield has been evident for some time. Nothing to do with keeping the faith with the players. 

[themightyfin]

19 minutes ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Don't agree sorry. No one, or at least not me. is looking for excuses or reasons for last night. The lack of a talismanic leader outfield has been evident for some time. Nothing to do with keeping the faith with the players. 

As I said before. There are lots of leaders on the pitch. It's not like the old days when there was one person everyone would look to. Everyone plays a part in leadership and responsibility its encouraged.  You see it all the time all over the pitch so I really have no idea of what your saying. It's not 50 years ago. 

 

Explain exatly what leadership skills where lacking last night? 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

1 hour ago, Danny Clender said:

I felt this last night, not sure if it's connected, but thought it more from a physical side.

We're a little light in the pounding sense, we're extremely skilful, but don't offer that brute of a player to fight back.

Of course this does link well with Grealish's angry side, he's not afraid to throw his weight around if he needs to. 

 

I understand you can't have everything, but it really showed last night how frail we can be when a real tussle is all that's needed in situations like last night. 

We’re just a little too nice aren’t we? All the hugging beforehand doesn’t feel right, saying that we had enough chances over the 2 games to win.

[mabrah]

I sort of agree, and said something similar on another thread. I do think we need a midfield general type of player. Not just for onfield leadership but also as a steadying influence. Things got overly frantic last night and I thought we needed someone to take the heat out. I've no idea who that might be but an Iborra type player (but quicker!) who can calm things down when needed, lead by example. I also think we're too reliant on Ndidi covering the midfield defensively and it's asking too much and leaving us exposed, particularly when Wilf ventures forward to join the attack/press. Maybe we have one already in Praet, I don't know, but I imagine someone a little more battle hardened.

[Benji]

2 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

Although not an in your face, shouting at folk to gee them up type of leader I’d say Vardy is a leader in so much that he leads by example and with him in the side the other players will feel they have a chance against anyone.

 

I get your point though, I think centre back through to the middle of the park there’s a real general type personality missing in there. Soyuncu looks like he could develop into that sort of personality mind you. 
 

Take the above with a pinch of salt obviously given I don’t watch the team week in week out.

 

Obviously social media means nothing, but I like how when we lose Vardy's one of the only players to still post and own up to a defeat, whereas almost all of the other players big up pre-game, go full love-in with each other when we win but go completely silent when we lose.  I'm sure some just think why bother I'll just get loads of abuse hurled at me, but Vardy puts his neck out.  On the pitch he's always talking and presses from the front - unfortunately last night he was clearly not fit (neither was N'didi).  Our midfield is where we really lack a mouthpiece.

[Al-aLondon-Foxile]

I said this last night to my two lads, we are a young side, lacking experience and in some instances probably language skills (cags?) to lead the team when under the cosh. We need a leader, an ‘orrible git’ who spreads confidence and intimidates the opposition. We were out muscled a bit last night, not that it was a physical encounter, but they just seemed to be more up for the fight than us. After a strong start when we didn’t score we just seemed to slowly wilt. I think this is something we’re lacking and have suffered from for some weeks now. We will grow though, if we keep the group together, and we will learn to win these games. 

[TonyN11]

5 hours ago, Cadno'r Cymoedd said:

Hugely disappointing as it is, we have to move on on learn from the semi final defeat. 

 

I think we lack an outfield leader badly, vocally and by their own actions, especially in times of adversity in games. Kasper is too far removed in goal. We lacked that last night and in recent league games. 

 

It is still a young team on the whole, easy to overlook that. Hopefully someone will emerge from within. Usually midfield is the area that offers up that type of player. I thought Youri might but he is struggling with his own game at the moment. I can't see Wilf being vocal enough to don the leader's mantle.  None of the others spring to mind other than perhaps Hamza in the future if he develops.

 

Thoughts? 

Can't think beyond Evans

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, TonyN11 said:

Can't think beyond Evans

jonny is a quiet type person …… who was the leader in 15/16 ?  wes isn't particularly vocal on the pitch.  that side had wes, huth, fuchs, drinks, vardy and kasper, all of which are leaders of one type or another.  the team we have now misses that and unless you are going to remove one of them, how are you getting this experienced voice into the team, even if you can find him !

 

its a developmental thing, as is the current squad. i expect Brendan will eb xpeaking with kasper, jonny and vards on this subject as Saturday is going to be a v tough game, both physically and mentally

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

As I said before. There are lots of leaders on the pitch. It's not like the old days when there was one person everyone would look to. Everyone plays a part in leadership and responsibility its encouraged.  You see it all the time all over the pitch so I really have no idea of what your saying. It's not 50 years ago. 

 

Explain exatly what leadership skills where lacking last night? 

Let me answer your question, if I may, by saying that without Grealish in the two semi final games, there is no way that Villa would have drawn or won. We'd have won both games easily. He might put noses out of joint amongst opposition fans as he does on here, but he gets those around him to get stuck in and does lead by example. I'd like to see that in our team, so when things are not going well or we feel we've not had the run of the ball - those great saves against last night for example - there's someone to hold the team together and bring them through outfield. Ideally everyone would be a fighter and a leader. That is not a criticism of the undoubtedly wonderful talents we have whatsoever but it is about having a dog in the fight when things get tough. I think we just lack that a bit at the moment. Maybe as I said, someone will emerge. 

Edited 29 January 2020 by Cadno'r Cymoedd