Qualification for Champions' League & Europa League

[lcfcfoz]

6 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

Well, let’s say Man U wins by 2 but scores less than 4 goals. By my reckoning that means we’d have the edge on them on goals scored if we beat them by a goal on Sunday - which would leave us tied in GD.

 

If you set aside the fact that us beating them looks extremely unlikely in the first place, that’s not an outlandish scenario.  It’d be nice to have our fate in our own hands, anyway.

Yup, that would be nice. Plus a draw be enough for man u to guarantee 3rd so if wolves can get 2 nil up at the bridge with 10 mins to go we can play out a draw 😀

[SemperEadem]

21 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Playing in the Europa League is a bloody great consolation prize.  We will see that once we get over the dissapointment.

 

The owners will put some money in, the question is whether we spend it wisely!

I could well be wrong but is this something they have not actually done for some time. Rather than putting cash into the club now it uses it’s player sales, loans and TV money.

Edited 21 July 2020 by SemperEadem

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, SemperEadem said:

I could well be wrong but is this something they have not actually done for some time. Rather than putting cash into the club now it uses it’s player sales, loans and TV money.

I don’t think you’re wrong but KP would likely be guarantor on some loans etc.  

Edited 21 July 2020 by st albans fox

[st albans fox]

As far as CL is concerned, I would say that there is more chance Chelsea don’t get another win than we beat yanited .....which makes our failure to get a point at Bournemouth even more stark !  And the same could be said about spurs - we could have set up for a boring 90 mins of two low blocks - naive .....

[Ric Flair]

21 hours ago, Foxin_Mad said:

Neither is great if you dont make the correct investment in your squad. It's more likely you have more money from Champions  League to reinvest. Europa Lesgue you need to do it from your own back or play a more European style like Wolves.

 

30-40 million nearly buys 1 decent player. Champions league you are talking 100s of millions. That's the difference.

 

If the owners want us to compete in both the they need to empty their pockets out.

You get about £15m for qualifying for the CL

[st albans fox]

30 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You get about £15m for qualifying for the CL

but you get decent sums for each result, moreso a win and the English tv pool makes that 15m into 40m  before you start the rewards for performance part  (I think).  If we had an unsuccessful CL campaign we would pocket 40/50m.  A poor EL one would be 10m ???  to get close to the poor run  CL monies, our EL run would have to take us to the final ! 
 

my numbers are approximate 

Edited 21 July 2020 by st albans fox

[Alf Bentley]

Am I correct in thinking that the following could happen, theoretically?

 

- Spurs finish 6th and look set for the group stage of the Europa League

- Arsenal then win the FA Cup, displacing Spurs from group stage to 2nd qualifying round

- Wolves then win this year's Europa League, displacing Spurs from Europe entirely (top 4 + Wolves qualify for Champions' League; only 2 English teams in Europa League - whoever finishes 5th plus Arsenal as FA Cup winners)

 

If I'm correct about that, it would be a highly amusing scenario. Bring it on!

 

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Am I correct in thinking that the following could happen, theoretically?

 

- Spurs finish 6th and look set for the group stage of the Europa League

- Arsenal then win the FA Cup, displacing Spurs from group stage to 2nd qualifying round

- Wolves then win this year's Europa League, displacing Spurs from Europe entirely (top 4 + Wolves qualify for Champions' League; only 2 English teams in Europa League - whoever finishes 5th plus Arsenal as FA Cup winners)

 

If I'm correct about that, it would be a highly amusing scenario. Bring it on!

 

Amusing ?

 

that wolves are in the CL and we are in the EL ???

 

sorry but I don’t find that in the least bit amusing ...........

 

btw, by ten pm, we could well be in the EL with Sunday of little consequence as a three goal win v yanited simply isn’t feasible ..... can’t see Chelsea winning at lpool though so hopefully not .....

[oadby.fox]

Since Man U are still in Europa and will be in the quarters, won’t we be able to get into the CL even finishing fifth so long as they finish above us and also win the EL? A lot of “ifs” I know but isn’t such an insane prospect given the way things are going for them at the moment.

 

 

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, oadby.fox said:

Since Man U are still in Europa and will be in the quarters, won’t we be able to get into the CL even finishing fifth so long as they finish above us and also win the EL? A lot of “ifs” I know but isn’t such an insane prospect given the way things are going for them at the moment.

 

No ..... question has been raised many times and I can’t be bothered to make the AFCON joke as a response any more ! 

[oadby.fox]

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

No ..... question has been raised many times and I can’t be bothered to make the AFCON joke as a response any more ! 

I had wondered why it wasn’t being mooted as an option... just read up on it - not sure why I thought that the extra place was given to fifth in such cases

[st albans fox]

3 minutes ago, oadby.fox said:

I had wondered why it wasn’t being mooted as an option... just read up on it - not sure why I thought that the extra place was given to fifth in such cases

because outside top 4 can be CL if Europa league or CL winners are outside top four ....it’s not an extra place for the PL , it’s achieved via winning one of the european competitions........ 

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Amusing ?

 

that wolves are in the CL and we are in the EL ???

 

sorry but I don’t find that in the least bit amusing ...........

 

btw, by ten pm, we could well be in the EL with Sunday of little consequence as a three goal win v yanited simply isn’t feasible ..... can’t see Chelsea winning at lpool though so hopefully not .....

 

Who said we are in the EL?! 

 

You assume that. I didn't and don't. 

 

We could still easily finish 3rd or 4th - and I certainly haven't given up on that.

 

We could finish 3rd or 4th and the scenario that I described could unfold (I think): Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd or Chelsea AND Wolves in the CL, Man Utd or Chelsea and Arsenal in the EL, Spurs nowhere.

I can tell you that I would find that enormously amusing.

 

Aren't there enough challenges in real life just now without certain people - you, in this instance - seizing every opportunity to create an unnecessary whinefest?!??!!! 

 

 

[lcfcfoz]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Who said we are in the EL?! 

 

You assume that. I didn't and don't. 

 

We could still easily finish 3rd or 4th - and I certainly haven't given up on that.

 

We could finish 3rd or 4th and the scenario that I described could unfold (I think): Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd or Chelsea AND Wolves in the CL, Man Utd or Chelsea and Arsenal in the EL, Spurs nowhere.

I can tell you that I would find that enormously amusing.

 

Aren't there enough challenges in real life just now without certain people - you, in this instance - seizing every opportunity to create an unnecessary whinefest?!??!!! 

 

 

hear! hear!

Edited 22 July 2020 by lcfcfoz

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Who said we are in the EL?! 

 

You assume that. I didn't and don't. 

 

We could still easily finish 3rd or 4th - and I certainly haven't given up on that.

 

We could finish 3rd or 4th and the scenario that I described could unfold (I think): Leicester, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd or Chelsea AND Wolves in the CL, Man Utd or Chelsea and Arsenal in the EL, Spurs nowhere.

I can tell you that I would find that enormously amusing.

 

Aren't there enough challenges in real life just now without certain people - you, in this instance - seizing every opportunity to create an unnecessary whinefest?!??!!! 

 

 

Don’t know about whine but seems a few have been on the vino !!

 

’we could still easily finish 3rd or 4th’ ......

 

yes it’s possible but ‘easily’ ?? 

the only way we get CL is if chelsea screw up so badly that yanited aren’t bothered second half on Sunday once they hear that wolves are 3-0 up OR  brendan pulls out a tactical master class ......

being a realist isn’t indulging in a whinefest !! 

[leicesterseddon]

Have to say I've written off hope really, although CL is still theoretically possible. 

 

Can see Man Utd winning by at least a two-goal margin tonight, meaning we'll have to beat them by three to overtake them on the final day. 

 

I can see Chelsea getting something at Anfield too, although even if they don't, I think they will beat Wolves at home. 

 

Obviously I hope I'm wrong! 

[Alf Bentley]

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Don’t know about whine but seems a few have been on the vino !!

 

’we could still easily finish 3rd or 4th’ ......

 

yes it’s possible but ‘easily’ ?? 

the only way we get CL is if chelsea screw up so badly that yanited aren’t bothered second half on Sunday once they hear that wolves are 3-0 up OR  brendan pulls out a tactical master class ......

being a realist isn’t indulging in a whinefest !! 

 

I haven't been on the vino - or the cerveza - for 5+ years. 

 

Our prospects are a matter of opinion, of course, and your opinion seems to be based on the thinking of Dad's Army's Private Frazer!

I'd say we have about a 40% chance of making the CL, Chelsea about 50% & Man Utd about 80% (I appreciate those maths probably don't quite add up)......but that's just an opinion and the future's unwritten.

 

Being a realist, it is entirely possible, for example, that (a) We beat Utd & they fail to beat West Ham by more than 2 or Chelsea fail to beat Liverpool or Wolves; (b) We draw with Utd & Chelsea lose to Liverpool & Wolves. Might not happen, but might.

 

But that debate is a distraction from my original post and your original response.

My original post didn't even mention our prospects, which are obviously unclear. It only speculated on a potential scenario affecting the qualification / non-qualification of other clubs, particularly Spurs.

In response, not content with implying that we're inevitably doomed to the EL (a pessimistic opinion you're entited to, even if it was a diversion from my point), you implied that I shared your pessimistic assumption....when I'd said nothing of the sort.

 

The moaning misery-mongers are all over a dozen threads, so why express your misery by responding to my post about something else and then distorting what I'd said?!

 

Cheer up, love! Might never happen! 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, leicesterseddon said:

Can see Man Utd winning by at least a two-goal margin tonight, meaning we'll have to beat them by three to overtake them on the final day. 

If ManU win 2-0, 3-1 or 4-2 tonight then a 1-0 win will do for us on Sunday for fourth (or third, depending on Chelsea's results).

We'd have the same GD as ManU (ie we'd gain 1 goal and they'd lose 1 goal) but we'd have scored more than them this season.

It's points, GD then GS.

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

If ManU win 2-0, 3-1 or 4-2 tonight then a 1-0 win will do for us on Sunday for fourth (or third, depending on Chelsea's results).

We'd have the same GD as ManU (ie we'd gain 1 goal and they'd lose 1 goal) but we'd have scored more than them this season.

It's points, GD then GS.

Do you they’d notice if we played both kasper and wardy ??

[st albans fox]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I haven't been on the vino - or the cerveza - for 5+ years. 

 

Our prospects are a matter of opinion, of course, and your opinion seems to be based on the thinking of Dad's Army's Private Frazer!

I'd say we have about a 40% chance of making the CL, Chelsea about 50% & Man Utd about 80% (I appreciate those maths probably don't quite add up)......but that's just an opinion and the future's unwritten.

 

Being a realist, it is entirely possible, for example, that (a) We beat Utd & they fail to beat West Ham by more than 2 or Chelsea fail to beat Liverpool or Wolves; (b) We draw with Utd & Chelsea lose to Liverpool & Wolves. Might not happen, but might.

 

But that debate is a distraction from my original post and your original response.

My original post didn't even mention our prospects, which are obviously unclear. It only speculated on a potential scenario affecting the qualification / non-qualification of other clubs, particularly Spurs.

In response, not content with implying that we're inevitably doomed to the EL (a pessimistic opinion you're entited to, even if it was a diversion from my point), you implied that I shared your pessimistic assumption....when I'd said nothing of the sort.

 

The moaning misery-mongers are all over a dozen threads, so why express your misery by responding to my post about something else and then distorting what I'd said?!

 

Cheer up, love! Might never happen! 

l’m overtly miserable because I simply didn’t see this coming.  Until the 65th minute at the vitality when kasper’s goal kick thudded into wilfs arse I was oblivious to the thought that we wouldn’t make CL. I argued after every game with my eldest that it wasn’t a worry ......that we’d cobble together enough points and both Chelsea and Man U wouldn’t both get enough to finish above us ...... plus we had the fall back of fifth ....... and then it all came tumbling down when cags lost his marbles and the following morning CAS exonerated Man City .....

 

so ignore me - I’m totally fooked off .....not so much with the fact that we’re not getting CL (my club have let me down enough over the decades for me to cope with that) but the impact it will have on the next five years at the club which was going to be secured on the back of a CL campaign with extra funds and some decent recruitment as a consequence (we couldn’t make the same mistakes twice surely ) 

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

15 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

l’m overtly miserable because I simply didn’t see this coming.  Until the 65th minute at the vitality when kasper’s goal kick thudded into wilfs arse I was oblivious to the thought that we wouldn’t make CL. I argued after every game with my eldest that it wasn’t a worry ......that we’d cobble together enough points and both Chelsea and Man U wouldn’t both get enough to finish above us ...... plus we had the fall back of fifth ....... and then it all came tumbling down when cags lost his marbles and the following morning CAS exonerated Man City .....

 

so ignore me - I’m totally fooked off .....not so much with the fact that we’re not getting CL (my club have let me down enough over the decades for me to cope with that) but the impact it will have on the next five years at the club which was going to be secured on the back of a CL campaign with extra funds and some decent recruitment as a consequence (we couldn’t make the same mistakes twice surely ) 

 

 

 

I can quite understand your disappointment, which we all feel in varying ways and to varying extents. We seemed to have CL qualification sewn up, but there's now every chance we'll miss out - even if I retain a bit more optimism than you.

 

I also understand the potential longer-term impacts, not least that it might make it harder to retain or to sign certain players if we can't offer CL football.....though I think that assuming a 5-year impact is overstating it. All sorts of things could affect the trajectory of the club over that timescale, for better or worse (Covid, the economy & King Power's fortunes, not to mention the ups and downs of football). Each season can be a step forward or back or a treading of water for multiple reasons.

 

I suppose that it's just my psychology:

(1) to work from where we are, not from where we might have been or from where we might be if something disastrous happens - so I've come to terms with the risk that we might end up in the EL but won't assume that is the case until it actually happens.

(2) to try to see the possibility of positive outcomes while they remain, without being in denial about real negative events (but not assuming potential negative events).

.....that makes life easier and happier for me, as there's enough unavoidable crap in life without needlessly making yourself miserable!

 

It was in that positive context that I posted what was supposed to be a cheerful little comment, highlighting how circumstances could conspire against Spurs & leave them eliminated from European qualification by Wolves and Arsenal (regardless of what happens to our qualification).....so it was a bit dispiriting to get a response dripping in misery and pessimism, and implicitly accusing me (wrongly) of assuming EL football for LCFC and of not caring about that.

 

Next time you post something intended to be positive, tag me in and I'll reply to remind you of all the misery in the world, Covid, nukes, China, Trump, terrorism and the inevitability of decay and death. 

 

Anyway, no problem. This is all just jabber...... Let's hope for a few favours this evening: I'd settle for a Liverpool win (even a draw) & a narrow Man Utd win.

[leicesterseddon]

3 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

If ManU win 2-0, 3-1 or 4-2 tonight then a 1-0 win will do for us on Sunday for fourth (or third, depending on Chelsea's results).

We'd have the same GD as ManU (ie we'd gain 1 goal and they'd lose 1 goal) but we'd have scored more than them this season.

It's points, GD then GS.

Didn’t Man Utd have the same goal difference as us before tonight’s fixtures though? 

[Stevosevic]

34 minutes ago, leicesterseddon said:

Didn’t Man Utd have the same goal difference as us before tonight’s fixtures though? 

They were. So a 2 goal win leaves it +2 for Man United.

 

A one goal win by us on Sunday would take us to the same GD again.

Edited 22 July 2020 by Stevosevic

[Pliskin]

The more I think about it, the more I’m satisfied with Europa league. I wasn’t keen initially because it is a more difficult competition to negotiate in my opinion, Thursday nights, lots of Sunday games and If you get a group with the more far field teams it can be difficult to manage. But perhaps were more ready for the Europa, but we will need heavy investment to be able to cope.

[HighPeakFox]

Personally, I'd like us to win on Sunday - call me crazy and all that.