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UniFox21

2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

By UniFox21, in Leicester City Forum

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Interesting though. These kind of disputes are fairly new to me. Isn't Tav's dispute the same? Should the club fold?

The club at worst give a talented young player a few cup games or a loan and risk them stringing them a long on a new deal and walking away. Have they really lost anything when the alternative is, they refuse to do either until a new deal is signed and they walk away anyway. 

 

This potentially happened with Calvin Bassey, Dennis Gylamfi and now Sidnei Tavares. 

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Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

The club at worst give a talented young player a few cup games or a loan and risk them stringing them a long on a new deal and walking away. Have they really lost anything when the alternative is, they refuse to do either until a new deal is signed and they walk away anyway. 

 

This potentially happened with Calvin Bassey, Dennis Gylamfi and now Sidnei Tavares. 

Demanding playing time is tricky, though.

 

If everyone demands playing time, then the manager ain't the manager.

 

If everyone demands a loan, then the academy manager ain't the academy manager.

 

Edited by Foxxed
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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Demanding playing time is tricky, though.

 

If everyone demands playing time, then the manager ain't the manager.

 

If everyone demands a loan, then the academy manager ain't the academy manager.

 

Of course but this is a Portugal U20 International who the first team manager has gone on record saying is a great talent and the club need to hone it to get him first team ready. Tavares has had concerns for over a year now, he's been handled pretty badly. This isn't even a case of refusing to loan him, the club have barely played him in the U23's. I would argue the academy manager is already not doing what the academy manager should be doing.

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Foxxed

Foxxed

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Of course but this is a Portugal U20 International who the first team manager has gone on record saying is a great talent and the club need to hone it to get him first team ready. Tavares has had concerns for over a year now, he's been handled pretty badly. This isn't even a case of refusing to loan him, the club have barely played him in the U23's. I would argue the academy manager is already not doing what the academy manager should be doing.

I agree that it's shitty that it's got to this point. (Although this has also happened to other good academies.)

 

But what do we say? "Alright, if you get into a good national team, and the manager likes you, then you can demand the manager plays you, and we'll put it in a contract"? Smells like a bad dynamic to me.

 

I'm okay with the academy not folding to demands. But it's bad that the academy players have no faith in first team playing time. And that comes down to Bren.

 

I think the academy has done alright getting loans. Knight, KDL, Benk, Sowah and Eppiah are good examples. Could be better, sure. But you don't want to ruin your reputation by loaning out duds.

 

If you want to blame someone, you should point to the lack of faith in first team playing time. And comes down to Bren, no? Who's he actually played aside from Thomas?

 

Edited by Foxxed
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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I agree that it's shitty that it's got to this point. (Although this has also happened to other good academies.)

 

But what do we say? "Alright, if you get into a good national team, and the manager likes you, then you can demand the manager plays you, and we'll put it in a contract"? Smells like a bad dynamic to me.

 

I'm okay with the academy not folding to demands. But it's bad that the academy players have no faith in first team playing time. And that comes down to Bren.

 

I think the academy has done alright getting loans. Knight, KDL, Benk, Sowah and Eppiah are good examples. Could be better, sure. But you don't want to ruin your reputation by loaning out duds.

 

If you want to blame someone, you should point to the lack of faith in first team playing time. And comes down to Bren, no? Who's he actually played aside from Thomas?

 

Well yes, the academy shouldn't decide who is loaned and who isn't. The academies sole purpose is to be a conveyor belt of talent for the first team or to produce footballers capable of playing first team professional football. Thats a duty of care to the individuals and to the sport at the very least. Is enough done in academies to help these young players across the board? There's been some high profile reports in the last year or two that still suggest there's a long way to go.

 

Rodgers has already insinuated the club retain academy players for too long in the age groups and don't get them exposed to first team football as early as possible. This is hopefully changing at our club.

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baldeagle

baldeagle

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Of course but this is a Portugal U20 International who the first team manager has gone on record saying is a great talent and the club need to hone it to get him first team ready. Tavares has had concerns for over a year now, he's been handled pretty badly. This isn't even a case of refusing to loan him, the club have barely played him in the U23's. I would argue the academy manager is already not doing what the academy manager should be doing.

Not having a dig but you are beginning to sound like a broken record . You are straight away blaming the academy manager without yourself having the full facts only your opinion or snippets of information. You have no idea what he or his agent are asking for they could be completely unreasonable and want silly clauses put in . And the club should never be held to ransom by any player or agent . Also going on about  Calvin Basey to try and add weight to your argument isn’t the best he’s made six appearances total in a shit league so hardly pulling up trees  

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

Not having a dig but you are beginning to sound like a broken record . You are straight away blaming the academy manager without yourself having the full facts only your opinion or snippets of information. You have no idea what he or his agent are asking for they could be completely unreasonable and want silly clauses put in . And the club should never be held to ransom by any player or agent . Also going on about  Calvin Basey to try and add weight to your argument isn’t the best he’s made six appearances total in a shit league so hardly pulling up trees  

I was responding to the bit about " the academy manager not being the academy manager ". They shouldn't have much say on whether players go on loan or not and that's something Beaglehole was rumoured to have tried to do when trying to win the meaningless PL2 title. 

 

The point I was making about Calvin Bassey and Dennis Gyamfi is that they both were offered new deals and both rejected them. With Tavares seemingly doing the same, its a potential issue arising. Its easy to say the club shouldn't let player power take over bit its a balance. I'm concerned for the short to medium term future of academies anyway, these changes to recruitment of under 18's is going to take some time to settle down.

 

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baldeagle

baldeagle

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I was responding to the bit about " the academy manager not being the academy manager ". They shouldn't have much say on whether players go on loan or not and that's something Beaglehole was rumoured to have tried to do when trying to win the meaningless PL2 title. 

 

The point I was making about Calvin Bassey and Dennis Gyamfi is that they both were offered new deals and both rejected them. With Tavares seemingly doing the same, its a potential issue arising. Its easy to say the club shouldn't let player power take over bit its a balance. I'm concerned for the short to medium term future of academies anyway, these changes to recruitment of under 18's is going to take some time to settle down.

 

Yes but we don’t know what  deals they were offered , for  all we know they could have been more than reasonable and it  could be a case of young player thinking they should get more than what they are worth . I don’t know what the club has offered or what they wanted but looking at our clubs  history theve been pretty shrewd getting youngsters to sign a new deal then sending them out on loan Iverson and Hall to name just two . 

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Blue ROI

Blue ROI

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On 13/12/2020 at 10:48, Foxxed said:

Idiakez also left Derby after Pearson left there. It looks like he wanted to follow Pearson more than leave lcfc, else I suspect he would have stayed at Derby. I don’t think anyone knows about Halajko’s reasons. It could be he butted heads or it could be his wife didn’t fall in love with the city. So far I’d say there’s one dodgy leaving. Not quite a pattern tbh.

Sounds like a problem with Big Nige.

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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Demanding playing time is tricky, though.

 

If everyone demands playing time, then the manager ain't the manager.

 

If everyone demands a loan, then the academy manager ain't the academy manager.

 

..perhaps this is the catalyst we need to re-invent the academy structure!!!

Looking from the outside is it possible that the academy players have wised up to their lack of progress whilst traversing our structured academy and the need to get  players out on loan sooner, as opposed to the policy of looking to win PL2, against the development of the individual.

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Aus Fox

Aus Fox

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Posted

Is there in our history a single player we have let go without playing for the first team who had gone on to bigger and better things?

I can’t think of a player we have regretted letting go and let’s be honest most teams have at least one that they love to regret.

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..perhaps this is the catalyst we need to re-invent the academy structure!!!

Looking from the outside is it possible that the academy players have wised up to their lack of progress whilst traversing our structured academy and the need to get  players out on loan sooner, as opposed to the policy of looking to win PL2, against the development of the individual.

Very well said. I do think the club are slowly realising this (Rodgers comments in public may have focused the minds) and lets hope the academy gets the tinkering it needs to match the ambition of the rest of the club.

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moore_94

moore_94

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Rain King said:

Thought Fitzhugh was an attacking midfielder! 

It is likely that the positions the players are in isn't right, unfortunately there isn't much reporting of our u18 side (literally none from club) so whoever is reporting the lineups is likely just guessing at positions

 

The line up is most likely actually:

 

Odunze

Godsmark-Ford, Obi, Ewing, Yfeko

Braybrooke

T Pennant, Fitzhugh, Marcal-Madivadua, K Pennant

Russ

Edited by moore_94
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