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UniFox21

2020/21 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

By UniFox21, in Leicester City Forum

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4 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

I consider the real issue here is, that following Brexit, the development of home grown players takes on a whole new dimension, so perhaps there does need to be a review of where we are and where we should be aiming to be.  Looking back and patting everyone on the back is fine, but not looking forward is a flawed approach. The World is forever changing and football is not excluded.

That's the problem. When its been determined that we're stagnating then it will already be too late and we will have to rebuild momentum. Very costly and a waste of time. We don't seem to have the money to do a costly rebuild like Chelsea or afford to make mistakes like Manchester United. In order for this club to consistently compete for top 4/6 we will need recruits/prospects to fill out our squad. We are already paying the price now by not having anyone in the system who could contribute at this level.(besides Thomas)

I fear for the Holidays.

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Stadt

Stadt

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Clubs naturally produce first team players, it doesn't necessarily mean that an academy is working well just because there is x number of graduates in the first team. Certain players will make it because they have a threshold level of natural talent, it's why players eventually make it from lower or non league clubs. Hypothetically, you have a cohort of 18 players, lets say 8 of them have first team potential - a rubbish academy would have 1 or 2 of those players make it because their talent naturally elevates them into the first team. A truly world class academy would get close to getting those 8 into the first team or at a level similar level they could move on to because they nurture and coach those players into better ones.

 

Personally, I think our academy is at a level where we can promote the natural talents but we don't seem to polish up the rough diamonds. I keep banging this drum but having a world class training ground is no use if the standard of coaching doesn't match it. It's like building a the world's greatest aircraft carrier or something and getting Francis Drake's remains to captain it, rubbish. Producing Schlupp, Barnes, Choudhury and Chillwell isn't bad by any means but you'd be hard pressed to say they're outstanding technical players, they're all very athletic. Is that a coincidence? Conor Tee was u18 player of the year as Ric always says - now he's a Crncic. He's pretty small so it makes sense Beaglehole wouldn't put enough faith in him, what good is a diminutive midfielder when you're going to try and set piece your way to a meaningless u23 title?

 

Idiakez and Halajko didn't stay long on their roles, they might not even have been good coaches, but turning them over so quickly isn't a good sign. Rudkin was head of the academy for a long time so I don't think we're going to see top down reconfiguration from him. It'll have to come from the owners or the management, which Rodgers does seem to be relatively good at in fairness. There's far less accountability in academies because there's so many things beyond a coaches control but it's about time things were freshened up with a world class training ground in view.

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Shobbers

Shobbers

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21 hours ago, surrifox said:

It’s never satisfactory seeing good obviously talented players fail to  push on but I think that is the nature of football development 

Agreed. Lads who are super talented at 15 can just be ahead physically and not so much when the others catch up. Some can lose motivation or start to 'believe their own hype', get arrogant and not be prepared to put in the hard yards when nobody is looking. This is a bigger factor than ever this year with the lads having to train remotely for several weeks. Who was turning up for every remote training session and putting in their all as well as doing the extra stuff down at their local park on their own? Who was sat on the sofa playing X-box rather than going for a run? Who was eating right and who was down McD's? Not everyone can make the transition to taking responsibility for themselves. It's inevitable some will fall away - talent isn't enough. 

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Foxxed

Foxxed

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15 hours ago, Stadt said:

Clubs naturally produce first team players, it doesn't necessarily mean that an academy is working well just because there is x number of graduates in the first team. Certain players will make it because they have a threshold level of natural talent, it's why players eventually make it from lower or non league clubs. Hypothetically, you have a cohort of 18 players, lets say 8 of them have first team potential - a rubbish academy would have 1 or 2 of those players make it because their talent naturally elevates them into the first team. A truly world class academy would get close to getting those 8 into the first team or at a level similar level they could move on to because they nurture and coach those players into better ones.

 

Personally, I think our academy is at a level where we can promote the natural talents but we don't seem to polish up the rough diamonds. I keep banging this drum but having a world class training ground is no use if the standard of coaching doesn't match it. It's like building a the world's greatest aircraft carrier or something and getting Francis Drake's remains to captain it, rubbish. Producing Schlupp, Barnes, Choudhury and Chillwell isn't bad by any means but you'd be hard pressed to say they're outstanding technical players, they're all very athletic. Is that a coincidence? Conor Tee was u18 player of the year as Ric always says - now he's a Crncic. He's pretty small so it makes sense Beaglehole wouldn't put enough faith in him, what good is a diminutive midfielder when you're going to try and set piece your way to a meaningless u23 title?

 

Idiakez and Halajko didn't stay long on their roles, they might not even have been good coaches, but turning them over so quickly isn't a good sign. Rudkin was head of the academy for a long time so I don't think we're going to see top down reconfiguration from him. It'll have to come from the owners or the management, which Rodgers does seem to be relatively good at in fairness. There's far less accountability in academies because there's so many things beyond a coaches control but it's about time things were freshened up with a world class training ground in view.

Our academy, and correct me if I'm wrong, have never produced so many first teamers, and especially Premier League players, not to mention England internationals. No?

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Foxy-Lady

Foxy-Lady

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22 hours ago, Foxxed said:

The purpose of an academy is to bring through top quality first teamers. And we've done that. In abundance. And the staff started the hard work more than a decade ago.

 

I'm not sure the academy can be accused of hiding behind successful graduates. Isn't that the academy's entire purpose? It's like saying Spurs are hiding behind successful match results.

 

Your beef, along with a few others, from what I can tell, is that the staff aren't up to scratch. But it's those staff who've successfully guided all our graduates.

 

The only reasonable argument is that coach, who left because he wanted to follow Pearson, was the real mastermind behind everything and everyone else isn't that great, and I find that hard to believe. I'm sure he was good, but I suspect the academy has other good coaches and staff.

Cant disagree with the points about the purpose of academies and our recent success in bringing players through to the first team.

 

However, on your final point (& with the exception of Luke Thomas who probably came through after Idaiakez left),  I think you would probably find that if you 'privately' asked ALL of those 1st team academy graduates (Barnes, Chaudhoury, Chilwell, KDH, Knight etc) who was the biggest single influence on their development during their time at LCFC Academy, very few of them (ie None of them!) would point to Beaglehole and most of them would point to Idiakez and/or jackson.

Beaglehole has managed to stifle quite a few technically gifted players who were deemed unsuitable for his style of U23  "hoofball"....Connor Tee being the most recent having won the U18 Academy player of the season!

I think Ric is absolutely right in his views that we are investing in NEW facilities that are now best in class, we are now perennial Top6 contenders playing regularly in European competitionl......and yet we still have the same U23 Academy coaches in place that were in place when we were playing in Div2 (Peake only retired last year from U18s).

Doesn't it seem logical that we should be investing in the best coaches as well at Youth level if we want to keep producing players capable of playing at Top6 level? 

 

(Only exception to above might be Luke Thomas who probably came through after Idiakez left) 

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moore_94

moore_94

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40 minutes ago, Blue Fox 72 said:

Playing away at Salford City tonight in the EFL Trophy. Does anyone know if we are likely to progress? 

Will likely depend on what kind of team they put out/how much they care about this competition, a lot of the League 1 and 2 clubs rotate and make a lot of changes in this competition

 

In the groups they beat Rochdale and Morecambe but also lost 6-0 to Man Utd youth

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moore_94

moore_94

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2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Tavares not even in the squad, does this mean he's in the squad on thursday?

Could be, I have just posted in the Athens pre-match thread about which youth players previously involved could still travel, just Tavares and Shade

 

 

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Sol thewall Bamba

Sol thewall Bamba

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16 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Is Ndukwu ever going to break through? Feels like he's been playing for the youth team for as long as I can remember. Saw him playing with Hamza at St Marys in the FA youth cup, one's playing in Europe for us and one's still in the 23s...

And Barnes and Chilwell as it turns out.

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