Liverpool A Post Match Thread

[AmyLGK]

I'm still really pissed off and sad.... bloody sunday night games...

[SpacedX]

3 hours ago, Col city fan said:

The game was won in the midfield

I say again, the middle of the park is usually where games are controlled.

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Maybe

• Its happening whatever Brendan or others think, may as well save a little bit of face
• Top, need more quality off the bench, its 5 players we can use now

 

I mean the result made that point.  I understand not subbing in a close game but this was well over and Madison was going down with cramp.... what was he thinking. Does he hate kel that much ?

 

 

[Nod.E]

3 hours ago, Ricey said:

Shut down Tielemans and we are nothing. Hopefully once Castagne and Ricardo are back we will at least have more quality out wide, which is where the ball inevitably gets pushed out to.

Absolutely spot on.

 

Klopp knew there or thereabouts what team we'd be putting out, and he knew that we'd be weak out wide. "Force them wide, you win the game, lads", will have been the message.

 

They absolutely killed us in the middle. Mendy and Tielemans, who we're so reliant on for building things moving forwards, weren't afforded an inch. The latter also looked knackered.

 

We pushed the ball wide and they dealt comfortably with Justin and Albrighton.

 

I've seen a lot of posters saying Justin was our best player. Maybe he was, it wouldn't be a major achievement after all, but;

 

A) That was likely, since he was given the most space

 

B) Although he showed some decent touches, he never looked like threatening really. I didn't get excited whenever it broke to him out wide, let's put it that way. 

 

So in hindsight I think defeat was inevitable given the set up and given the full backs available. 

 

Perhaps, and again with hindsight, we should have set up in a 4-3-3 with Under and Barnes either side of Vardy to provide our width. With Justin and Albrighton employed as full backs and Praet and Tielemans encouraged to stay wide in a midfield 3, perhaps we'd have offered more of a threat. Or maybe somebody else in place of Tielemans. Not sure it was Maddison's game, so Choudhury maybe? Not sure.

 

Either way, it's all easier with hindsight and we were 2-0 down at half time, so difficult to change it by that point.

 

Liverpool won the battle tactically, and their players are pretty good as well.

Edited 23 November 2020 by Nod.E

[deanolegend1989]

First time I’ve commented since the defeat as I was pretty fuming last night.

It was an absolutely shocking performance, whether Liverpool were good or not is irrelevant, we were absolutely awful in all departments.

Before the game I thought BR set up wrong and Praet should of started as Tielemens and Mendy will get overrun, and I couldn’t of been more correct.
Whilst Brendan, in my opinion, got it wrong, our squad is really fighting hard with the injuries and it’s still a great points total all things considered.

However, as I’ve said before firstly that the way we’re playing and somehow winning with such low creativity is going to eventually be shown up.

The other thing I’ve gone on about time and time again is how if we concede first we will always have no chance. This formation only works when we have something to hold.

The simple thing is, if we play these tactics, we will be tough to beat if scoring first/awful when conceding first. We’re setting up in formation and personnel for this and it’s not sustainable and not good to watch and in my opinion limiting this actual ability we have in our team.

The problem we have that has repeatedly happened despite holding onto wins, is when we play a middle 2 of Mendy and Tielemens we get overrun time and time and time again. I saw it with West Ham, it happened vs Villa, it happened badly yesterday, Wolves were passive first half but when they pressed it happened again, even Burnley to an extent we played great going forward that day(a poor Burnley team + we set up less scared 4231) but we were still over run near the end that game and could of conceded 4 or 5 vs a better team. It’s a clear problem that will hamper us constantly and put continual pressure on our back 4/5 because teams just cut through Mendy and Tielemens like they wernt even there, hence why I knew we’d need Praet in there 100% of the time.

It does hamper our attack by taking 1 out up top to make 3 in the middle, but you have to control or at least have some control of the centre and we got ripped a new arsehole over again it was painful to watch. BR should of reacted as soon as we concede but as predicted he waits till 60 as he’s too scared to have the balls to act quickly when it’s clear it’s not working.

When Wilf is back it will be a huge difference and teams won’t be able to walk through our weak link and that will allow us to just play Wilf/Tielemens and then get Maddison more involved. Him, Vardy and Barnes yesterday, I felt so sorry for, it’s impossible to expect them to do anything if we get run over the way we did.

We were effectively playing with 9 men and on top of that Forfana had an absolute shocker, I’m a huge fan of his but that was a huge wake up call. He actually started ok but 2nd half he lost his head, mane skinned in constantly and Firminhos chances , he was all over the place. He needs a bit more composure and some advice because he will be a top defender and has all the attributes physically but he was rash and unreliable yesterday.

Him along with Albrighton had shockers, the whole back 5(bar Justin who did all he could really) were poor and the front 3 were pretty much anonymous but it all stems down to what I’ve highlighted a million times in the centre.

Its hard for BR without Wilf but whilst we have Mendy in there, we have to play Praet as a 3. When Wilfs back we can unleash Under, Maddison and Barnes to compliment Vardy and be a lot more dynamic, but until Wilf is back we have to have an extra body in midfield and make us less of a knife through butter.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Measured analysis thread from Dominic Wells on Twitter

 

 

[Col city fan]

16 hours ago, Line-X said:

One can only dream...

😢

[volpeazzurro]

16 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

I mean the result made that point.  I understand not subbing in a close game but this was well over and Madison was going down with cramp.... what was he thinking. Does he hate kel that much ?

 

 

Yes I found that strange. It may have been late in the game but given his recent injury problems, I'd have thought Rodgers would have bought Maddison off to protect him, he was spent. Probably Rodgers was just completely flummoxed and rolled up into a ball by this time.

[Skulking Around]

So this just came up, and it certainly surprised me:

 

Madders certainly put in a proper defensive effort yesterday, but then I wondered... where was Mendy?

 

I looked at the Whoscored stats, and while I did confirm Madders' stats did match up, Mendy not only record no intercepts, but also just one tackle for the game. Not exactly inspiring stats from our most defensive mid (for the record, Youri recorded 3 tackles and 1 interception). Mendy has been great, but this was a game where we missed Wilf. 

 

Granted, while it felt like we couldn't string together passes, especially frustrating when their passes seemed to be centimetre perfect, it also felt like we were very limited in our options as to where the passes could be made as those Liverpool players were everywhere. Almost as if there was an increased difficulty factor in making our passes out of that midfield.

 

Even with Liverpool's so called injury crisis, they still put up a pretty good back four. However, because they won that midfield battle, we never had a chance in testing it. It also did feel like a game where we missed our width, and the sooner Ricardo and Castange come back, the better. Our injuries hurt us far more than Liverpool, but if I'm not mistaken, we have the three Europa League games, with Fulham in between.

 

If we can secure top spot on Thursday, I think we can ease our wounded back into the squad, and take on the Christmas fixtures with renewed spirit.

[st albans fox]

18 hours ago, deanolegend1989 said:

First time I’ve commented since the defeat as I was pretty fuming last night.

It was an absolutely shocking performance, whether Liverpool were good or not is irrelevant, we were absolutely awful in all departments.

Before the game I thought BR set up wrong and Praet should of started as Tielemens and Mendy will get overrun, and I couldn’t of been more correct.
Whilst Brendan, in my opinion, got it wrong, our squad is really fighting hard with the injuries and it’s still a great points total all things considered.

However, as I’ve said before firstly that the way we’re playing and somehow winning with such low creativity is going to eventually be shown up.

The other thing I’ve gone on about time and time again is how if we concede first we will always have no chance. This formation only works when we have something to hold.

The simple thing is, if we play these tactics, we will be tough to beat if scoring first/awful when conceding first. We’re setting up in formation and personnel for this and it’s not sustainable and not good to watch and in my opinion limiting this actual ability we have in our team.

The problem we have that has repeatedly happened despite holding onto wins, is when we play a middle 2 of Mendy and Tielemens we get overrun time and time and time again. I saw it with West Ham, it happened vs Villa, it happened badly yesterday, Wolves were passive first half but when they pressed it happened again, even Burnley to an extent we played great going forward that day(a poor Burnley team + we set up less scared 4231) but we were still over run near the end that game and could of conceded 4 or 5 vs a better team. It’s a clear problem that will hamper us constantly and put continual pressure on our back 4/5 because teams just cut through Mendy and Tielemens like they wernt even there, hence why I knew we’d need Praet in there 100% of the time.

It does hamper our attack by taking 1 out up top to make 3 in the middle, but you have to control or at least have some control of the centre and we got ripped a new arsehole over again it was painful to watch. BR should of reacted as soon as we concede but as predicted he waits till 60 as he’s too scared to have the balls to act quickly when it’s clear it’s not working.

When Wilf is back it will be a huge difference and teams won’t be able to walk through our weak link and that will allow us to just play Wilf/Tielemens and then get Maddison more involved. Him, Vardy and Barnes yesterday, I felt so sorry for, it’s impossible to expect them to do anything if we get run over the way we did.

We were effectively playing with 9 men and on top of that Forfana had an absolute shocker, I’m a huge fan of his but that was a huge wake up call. He actually started ok but 2nd half he lost his head, mane skinned in constantly and Firminhos chances , he was all over the place. He needs a bit more composure and some advice because he will be a top defender and has all the attributes physically but he was rash and unreliable yesterday.

Him along with Albrighton had shockers, the whole back 5(bar Justin who did all he could really) were poor and the front 3 were pretty much anonymous but it all stems down to what I’ve highlighted a million times in the centre.

Its hard for BR without Wilf but whilst we have Mendy in there, we have to play Praet as a 3. When Wilfs back we can unleash Under, Maddison and Barnes to compliment Vardy and be a lot more dynamic, but until Wilf is back we have to have an extra body in midfield and make us less of a knife through butter.

i think Brendan was tempted by liverpools defensive issues to play barnes and madders …...so he ended up setting up with a defensive mindset but without the personnel to carry it out  - you could see if the first half we had barnes, vards and madders across the front near the half way line neither pressing or holding - they were easily by passed and then we were 2 v 3 in the middle - tactically poor - hopefully he learns from this that you cant fall between stools - you need a plan and you carry out the plan - having two plans at the same time is difficult against one of the best sides in europe !

[filbertway]

29 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

i think Brendan was tempted by liverpools defensive issues to play barnes and madders …...so he ended up setting up with a defensive mindset but without the personnel to carry it out  - you could see if the first half we had barnes, vards and madders across the front near the half way line neither pressing or holding - they were easily by passed and then we were 2 v 3 in the middle - tactically poor - hopefully he learns from this that you cant fall between stools - you need a plan and you carry out the plan - having two plans at the same time is difficult against one of the best sides in europe !

I think that's where we went wrong against West Ham as well, we played a defensive formation but tried to play attacking. So our attacks where weak and broke down easily and we also left massive gaps at the back where our 3 cbs were pulled out of place.

[sacreblueits442]

On 23/11/2020 at 00:59, Nod.E said:

At one point Under was in space on the overlap and Albrighton crossed it into an empty box. Under looked at him as if to say 'wtf'.

 

He's one of our league winners and always puts in such a shift. He's also a bit thick.

..Albrightons' first instinct is to play Vardy in!!!

  Suspect he expected Vardy to be there but you need to be aware of what is around you.

[filbertway]

7 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..Albrightons' first instinct is to play Vardy in!!!

  Suspect he expected Vardy to be there but you need to be aware of what is around you.

 

 this is so right. If he gets the ball, 9 times out of 10 if he hasn't dribbled the ball out of play or lost possession, he'll hit an aimless lofted ball forwards.

[sacreblueits442]

On 23/11/2020 at 09:03, shen said:

It's really just been this game and the last one where we've been comprehensively beaten. The one before that was when we lost to that ultra dodgy penalty in added time. The game before that we drew. So I don't think there's much of a trend here.

 

...the previous matches were one under Puel and the next was with Rodgers!!!

  The "Trend" has been the last two games, with the same performances and results.

  Under Puel we had good performances against the big boys, just could not negotiate the deep block. It is not as if it is difficult to compete against Liverpool, more a case of we do not know how to play against them.

[Col city fan]

17 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...the previous matches were one under Puel and the next was with Rodgers!!!

  The "Trend" has been the last two games, with the same performances and results.

  Under Puel we had good performances against the big boys, just could not negotiate the deep block. It is not as if it is difficult to compete against Liverpool, more a case of we do not know how to play against them.

Your final sentence makes no sense

Liverpool haven’t been beaten at home for getting on near a hundred years!

It IS very difficult to compete against Liverpool especially at Anfield 

That said, I was really surprised at how we rolled over and showed our under-bellies to them this time

But Klopp did his homework