Three new central defenders

[STUHILL]

With Kabak, and the ability of some of our full backs to fill in with a switch to a back 5, then I think we have more than enough for the season. 

[kingfox]

Just now, moore_94 said:

Missing out on CL and going out to Slavia was way more down to lack of depth rather than lack of experience - even having someone like Kabak last season would’ve been an improvement and probably would’ve helped to see us over the line in terms of CL

As I constantly said to you and others on the Kabak thread, Rodgers said he wants winners and more experience for a reason.

 

We’ve found ourselves in crappy situations two season’s running, because this group still shows naivety.

 

As we saw when you take Evans out of the equation, we’ve had a tendency to capitulate, as seen against Newcastle & Spurs. Then people will say “Well against Newcastle, Evans got injured prior to kick off”, “Against Spurs we were good until Fofana went off”. At the end of the day, we weren’t equipped enough to handle those scenarios, because we ended up with an inexperienced back line and had to play players out of position, something we don’t want to end up doing again next season.

 

You lose crucial experience, then you have to replace them. This obsession with overloading the squad with young talent is silly, that’s our usual transfer process, but as I said on the Kabak thread, it’s a process that shouldn’t happen all of the time, hence why Rodgers wants to sign a player like Bertrand, to be a like to like swap with Fuchs, because it’s the sensible and right thing to do.

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, kingfox said:

As I constantly said to you and others on the Kabak thread, Rodgers said he wants winners and more experience for a reason.

 

We’ve found ourselves in crappy situations two season’s running, because this group still shows naivety.

 

As we saw when you take Evans out of the equation, we’ve had a tendency to capitulate, as seen against Newcastle & Spurs. Then people will say “Well against Newcastle, Evans got injured prior to kick off”, “Against Spurs we were good until Fofana went off”. At the end of the day, we weren’t equipped enough to handle those scenarios, because we ended up with an inexperienced back line and had to play players out of position, something we don’t want to end up doing again next season.

 

You lose crucial experience, then you have to replace them. This obsession with overloading the squad with young talent is silly, that’s our usual transfer process, but as I said on the Kabak thread, it’s a process that shouldn’t happen all of the time, hence why Rodgers wants to sign a player like Bertrand, to be a like to like swap with Fuchs, because it’s the sensible and right thing to do.

Yes but he didn’t say he needs that from EVERY signing.
 

Do you not think if we were able to bring on an actual centre back (whether they were young or not) in these scenarios rather than a make shift replacement it could have ended in a better result for the team?

[kingfox]

12 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

With Kabak, and the ability of some of our full backs to fill in with a switch to a back 5, then I think we have more than enough for the season. 

But as seen last season, those situations are not ideal, we don’t want to keep finding ourselves in those situations, fans absolutely hated it, now some are saying it’s ok, come on now 

 

Having Castagne cover at RCB, Amartey the same, Ndidi in the middle of a back three, Bertrand potentially at LCB. The only player who looked comfortable in a back three was Justin, because he has the pace to do so, yet he’s injured.

4 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Yes but he didn’t say he needs that from EVERY signing.
 

Do you not think if we were able to bring on an actual centre back (whether they were young or not) in these scenarios rather than a make shift replacement it could have ended in a better result for the team?

So far we’ve got in more goals, more physicality and most importantly winners in Daka & Soumare.

 

He also said he wanted players(plural) with experience. Bertrand is one, but is that enough? No way, not when we’ve lost a figure like Wes.

 

Who knows regarding that question, but it wouldn’t have surprised me if it didn’t, purely because you’re replacing inexperience with inexperience. Evans is the glue that holds the defence together, statistically when Evans, Fofana & Soyuncu played together, our record was favourable. You take Evans out the equation, we capitulate to the likes of Newcastle & Spurs and produce terrible performances as seen against Everton. 
 

We don’t want to have to rely on certain situations, when you’re having to call upon the likes of Ndidi, Castagne & Amartey to cover, fans hated it.

[messerschmitt]

16 minutes ago, kingfox said:

As I constantly said to you and others on the Kabak thread, Rodgers said he wants winners and more experience for a reason.

 

We’ve found ourselves in crappy situations two season’s running, because this group still shows naivety.

 

As we saw when you take Evans out of the equation, we’ve had a tendency to capitulate, as seen against Newcastle & Spurs. Then people will say “Well against Newcastle, Evans got injured prior to kick off”, “Against Spurs we were good until Fofana went off”. At the end of the day, we weren’t equipped enough to handle those scenarios, because we ended up with an inexperienced back line and had to play players out of position, something we don’t want to end up doing again next season.

 

You lose crucial experience, then you have to replace them. This obsession with overloading the squad with young talent is silly, that’s our usual transfer process, but as I said on the Kabak thread, it’s a process that shouldn’t happen all of the time, hence why Rodgers wants to sign a player like Bertrand, to be a like to like swap with Fuchs, because it’s the sensible and right thing to do.

The experienced players I've seen here recently have offered very little, I'd sooner have ability rather than last seasons Morgan and Fuchs. I'm not being critical of legends and prem winners who in their day were brilliant but anyone who thinks they offered us much last season doesn't watch the same games as me. Oh and remember the experienced Ryan Bennet.

[fox_up_north]

Did I miss us signing Kabak?

[kingfox]

1 minute ago, messerschmitt said:

The experienced players I've seen here recently have offered very little, I'd sooner have ability rather than last seasons Morgan and Fuchs. I'm not being critical of legends and prem winners who in their day were brilliant but anyone who thinks they offered us much last season doesn't watch the same games as me. Oh and remember the experienced Ryan Bennet.

But they are also vital members of the squad, their leadership off the field is just as important on it. We’ve now lost two important members of the team in that regard, we’re replacing Fuchs with experience, yet it’s ok to replace Wes with potentially a 21 year old, where’s the sense behind that?

 

Clubs like to keep certain experienced players on their books for a reason, they may not necessarily play much, but they are still important members of the squad, that can step in every now and then when needed. 
 

That’s why we’re signing Bertrand because it makes sense to do so.

[STUHILL]

I actually think we will be playing with 2 CBs in a back 4 for most the season, which means a rotation of Evans, Soyuncu, Fofana and Kabak and some emergency options of Amartey, N'didi, Benkovic, Bertrand, Castange, which with a back 4, will unlikely to ever be needed! 

 

What experienced CB such as Tarkowski is going to want to join a club where he would be 4th choice in a 2 CB pairing team and little to no guarantee of playing.

 

Kabak is an International, experienced the premier league and is still highly rated with Liverpool fans on the whole pleased with what he gave them. 

 

No signing is a guarantee but on paper the player and deal makes some sense. Not every young player needs babysitting and Soyucu especially will have learned from last season and the Euros. He is turning 26 this season and should be hitting his prime, with Fofana also looking like a absolute world beater at times. He will only get better this coming season. Exciting times! 

 

 

[norwichfox]

1 more centre back and 2 more medical staff would be the economical solution....

[adam95581]

Looks like Kabak is going to get a fair crack from some of our fans before coming under fire then.......

[STUHILL]

5 minutes ago, adam95581 said:

Looks like Kabak is going to get a fair crack from some of our fans before coming under fire then.......

He may struggle to get much playing time in the league. Some think 2 of Evans/Soy/Fofana will be permanently injured judging by the hysteria 

[Dahnsouff]

3 hours ago, kingfox said:

...

 

What we need is another Evans/Big Wes type figure, preferably as a stop gap like Bertrand, until someone like Tarkowski becomes available.

As I said yesterday (Was it really only yesterday....) yes an experienced CB would be great, but older experienced players tend to want longer contracts (See Bertrand, see Albrighton) so stop gap older experience isn`t really a thing.

So we go with an organic increase in experience from our own, and add to the rank with someone like Kabak and this after adding experience from Bertrand (presumably)

It'll do.

[Guest]

I don't think there's a team in the world who wouldn't be considerably weakened by simultaneous injuries to two first choice players in the same position, besides which if we applied this logic across the whole squad then we'd have about 70 players. What if Vardy, Iheanacho and Daka all get injured at the same time? Better sign another few strikers just in case.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

Also what about Knight? I’m sure I read he was offered a new deal after his Wycombe loan spell where he did a good job last season, done well at every club as well so far - so could potentially be another number for the CB positions.

[moore_94]

Just now, TAFKA Castroneves said:

Also what about Knight? I’m sure I read he was offered a new deal after his Wycombe loan spell where he did a good job last season, done well at every club as well so far - so could potentially be another number for the CB positions.

Sold to Peterborough

[TAFKA Castroneves]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

Sold to Peterborough

Ah thought I’d missed some news somewhere. Thanks mate 👍 shame quite liked the look of him, he will do alright with Peterborough though.

[kingfox]

48 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

As I said yesterday (Was it really only yesterday....) yes an experienced CB would be great, but older experienced players tend to want longer contracts (See Bertrand, see Albrighton) so stop gap older experience isn`t really a thing.

So we go with an organic increase in experience from our own, and add to the rank with someone like Kabak and this after adding experience from Bertrand (presumably)

It'll do.

Will it do though.

 

There would be absolutely no need to have this conversation, if last season Soyuncu proved he was good enough without Evans, plus the likes of Ndidi, Castagne & Amartey were good enough for cover.

 

Those two things though proved to be a problem.

[Dahnsouff]

9 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Will it do though.

 

There would be absolutely no need to have this conversation, if last season Soyuncu proved he was good enough without Evans, plus the likes of Ndidi, Castagne & Amartey were good enough for cover.

 

Those two things though proved to be a problem.

Although I don't actually think we disagree totally, I think we can just disagree on what is tolerable in terms of CB's and acceptable depth 

[Collymore]

On 13/07/2021 at 14:53, fox_up_north said:

Did I miss us signing Kabak?

Good point!

[Collymore]

Well it looks like Brendan is now settled on a CB pairing rather than a 3. I wonder if we will see Nelson at some point as some had mentioned previously in this thread. 

 

Ndidi looked good today at CB, albeit against a poor Newcastle side. I'm just not sure if Soumare is good enough to fill in for Ndidi though. 

 

Will be interesting to see what we do Thursday.

 

[Lambert09]

There are pros and cons to wilf playing cb, it depends how quickly opponents can work them out to take advantage. Positionally, he is all over the place at cb 

Edited 13 December 2021 by Lambert09

[Pliskin]

Wilf plays the position as a CM, twice he got caught today trying to play as a CM. 
 

It’s all well and good playing against Newcastle, but you can’t play Wilf at CB against Spurs, he will get destroyed. It may be the only option, but it won’t be a good one. Benkovic clearly will never play, Kolo will be considered before him. 
 

So interesting times ahead. 

[Dahnsouff]

Super Dan will be back for Thursday 

 

edit: fixed

Edited 13 December 2021 by Dahnsouff

[jmono84]

I like the double pivot of Tielemans and Soumare because they’re good technically and Wilf gets found wanting in this role. I liked him at the back yesterday and found he and Soyuncu were soo much more aggressive. There was a couple of times he got wrong side of Wilson but Wilf was soo quick to get back and put tackles in and I agree he won’t always get away with this but if he plays there more I’m sure he’ll iron this out.

 

Wilf is an amazing ball winner but I don’t think he has the technical ability to shine in a pivot. Either a holding DM or back CB for me.

[coolhandfox]

5 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

There are pros and cons to wilf playing cb, it depends how quickly opponents can work them out to take advantage. Positionally, he is all over the place at cb 

 

5 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Wilf plays the position as a CM, twice he got caught today trying to play as a CM. 
 

It’s all well and good playing against Newcastle, but you can’t play Wilf at CB against Spurs, he will get destroyed. It may be the only option, but it won’t be a good one. Benkovic clearly will never play, Kolo will be considered before him. 
 

So interesting times ahead. 

Considering he's not a natural centre back and it was on field change with no prep you are being over critical in my view. 

 

Last season he started at CB 4 times, we won 2, draw 1 and lost 1.