Footballers and the Jab

[Phube]

9 hours ago, Otis said:

so why bother vaccinating children who are largely unaffected by the covid. 

This and only this:

 

 

[Otis]

37 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

Otis, I've almost lost the will to keep explaining this. Google's your friend where you'll find article after article why you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

Here's just one... 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

 

"So let me make one thing clear: Vaccinated people are not as likely to spread the coronavirus as the unvaccinated. Even in the United States, where more than half of the population is fully vaccinated, the unvaccinated are responsible for the overwhelming majority of transmission."

Yes less likely but they still can and do as I know from personal experience. 

You seem to be under the impression that if everyone is vaccinated then Covid disappears. 

Edited 10 October 2021 by Otis

[Otis]

26 minutes ago, Phube said:

This and only this:

 

 

Scrapping the barrel now. I said largely unaffected not completely. 

 

Deaths from COVID ‘incredibly rare’ among children

Studies find that overall risk of death or severe disease from COVID-19 is very low in kids.

 

Of 3,105 deaths from all causes among the 12 million or so people under 18 in England between March 2020 and February 2021, 25 were attributable to COVID-19 — a rate of about 2 for every million people in this age range. None had asthma or type-1 diabetes, the authors note, and about half had conditions that put them at a higher risk than healthy children of dying from any cause.

[The People's Hero]

Once everyone has been forcibly vaccinated and the virus still exists and is evolving and mutating in vaccinated people who are still all passing the virus on, I do wonder whether people will accept they have egg on their face or be too busy virtue signalling on the next cause. 
 

If you’re vaccinated. Great. Well done. If you’re vegan. Great. Well done. Feel the inner satisfaction. Save us the virtue signalling. 

[Phube]

26 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Once everyone has been forcibly vaccinated and the virus still exists and is evolving and mutating in vaccinated people who are still all passing the virus on, I do wonder whether people will accept they have egg on their face or be too busy virtue signalling on the next cause. 
 

If you’re vaccinated. Great. Well done. If you’re vegan. Great. Well done. Feel the inner satisfaction. Save us the virtue signalling. 

Wow, I never thought after all the years you’ve been on here you’d eventually turn into a Daily Mail enthusiast? 
 

Next you’ll be saying ‘woke’ about anything in a perjorative manner.

[The People's Hero]

15 minutes ago, Phube said:

Wow, I never thought after all the years you’ve been on here you’d eventually turn into a Daily Mail enthusiast? 
 

Next you’ll be saying ‘woke’ about anything in a perjorative manner.

I’m not a daily mail enthusiast at all. 
 

I just despise virtue signalling. 
 

Everyone will make their own risk assessment with regards to the vaccination ( which very clearly has not benefited from long term trials - you can’t cheat time )

Why feel the need for the virtue signalling ? I don’t get it at all

 

I do a huge amount of things for the good of others on a very regular basis but I do that for my own reasons and get satisfaction from it. I don’t feel the need to bash people who don’t do the same and don’t really care for internet points derived from virtue signalling. 

 

 

[st albans fox]

54 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

Once everyone has been forcibly vaccinated and the virus still exists and is evolving and mutating in vaccinated people who are still all passing the virus on, I do wonder whether people will accept they have egg on their face or be too busy virtue signalling on the next cause. 
 

If you’re vaccinated. Great. Well done. If you’re vegan. Great. Well done. Feel the inner satisfaction. Save us the virtue signalling. 

Can you equate being a vegan with being vaccinated?  

[The People's Hero]

Just now, st albans fox said:

Can you equate being a vegan with being vaccinated?  

The similarity is the absolute necessity to speak and preach about it at every opportunity. 
 

I couldn’t care less if you are vaccinated or a vegan. I don’t think badly of either group of people; I just don’t understand why both groups think people care so much about their preference. 
 

I like sherbert lemons but I don’t see everything through that lens and don’t judge others for their views on my favoured confectionary and neither do I feel the need to virtue signal about my support for the confectionary makers and support for our economy or mention sherbert lemons in every post. 
 

 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, The People's Hero said:

I’m not a daily mail enthusiast at all. 
 

I just despise virtue signalling. 
 

Everyone will make their own risk assessment with regards to the vaccination ( which very clearly has not benefited from long term trials - you can’t cheat time )

Why feel the need for the virtue signalling ? I don’t get it at all

 

I do a huge amount of things for the good of others on a very regular basis but I do that for my own reasons and get satisfaction from it. I don’t feel the need to bash people who don’t do the same and don’t really care for internet points derived from virtue signalling. 

 

 

This is actually an interesting question in of itself.

 

Perhaps it's some ego wanting the validation of others and to be seen doing so, perhaps it's just trying to inspire others to acts of altruism too. Perhaps it's a bit of both, perhaps there's other factors entirely involved.

 

Speaking personally, however, when it comes to threats the Earth has delivered against us that have the potential to threaten everyone (directly or indirectly), like this one and a couple others, then I'm more interested in the results than the methods. Whatever gets enough people on board - appealing to ego, inspiring them to altruism, whatever - in the most timely and effective manner is what should be done. If "virtue signalling" (whatever nebulous definition of it might apply) works, then fine; if it doesn't, use something else.

 

Covid has been gracious enough to allow for a little bit of a disjointed response at the return of a manageable (though high) cost in terms of lives and social upheaval. The next crisis might not be so forgiving.

Edited 10 October 2021 by leicsmac

[Spudulike]

2 hours ago, The People's Hero said:

The similarity is the absolute necessity to speak and preach about it at every opportunity. 
 

I couldn’t care less if you are vaccinated or a vegan. I don’t think badly of either group of people; I just don’t understand why both groups think people care so much about their preference. 
 

I like sherbert lemons but I don’t see everything through that lens and don’t judge others for their views on my favoured confectionary and neither do I feel the need to virtue signal about my support for the confectionary makers and support for our economy or mention sherbert lemons in every post. 
 

 

Your enjoyment of sherbert lemons has no effect on others. If you are unvaccinated then you do have an effect. Just like passive smoking. 

 

Nothing to do with virtue signalling but I agree with you about sherbert lemons. 

[Phube]

Wait a mo' where mine and TPH's conversation?

[Super_horns]

Wonder what the uptake is in other sports?

 

Do athletes have the same doubts over the jab ..

 

Also watching  the F1 you still have drivers wearing masks when interviewed  which never happens in football.

Edited 11 October 2021 by Super_horns

[everton carr]

1 A virus so deadly you need to have a rest to find out if you have it 2A Vaccine so effective it only works if everyone takes it 3 A Pandemic so serious Hospitals are firing staff who don't trust the medicine.Am I missing something.Ps Ryan Bowman Shrewsbury Town double jabbed anyone want to comment

[Spudulike]

53 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Can you be 100% certain of this though? You most likely are right but without longer term evidence it's a bit of a sweeping statement to make. 

 

I don't understand the smoking comparisons. You can't avoid smokers your whole life, in the same sense you can't avoid unvaccinated people either. It's one of those things where it's just having respect for someone else's choice, even if it differs from yours and might not necessarily be seen as the better choice. 

I can be 100% sure that unvaccinated people are much more likely to spread the virus, the science has confirmed this. 

 

I can and do avoid smokers who are easy to identify. Same can't be said for those unvaccinated. I struggle to respect those that have chosen to not have the vaccinations (I'm alright, Jack) and continue to live amongst us. 

 

I had my third jab on Saturday and flu jab last week. It would be nice to know that others are considerate of those of us that may well snuff it if we contract covid. 

[Mike the Metal Ed]

1 hour ago, everton carr said:

1 A virus so deadly you need to have a rest to find out if you have it 2A Vaccine so effective it only works if everyone takes it 3 A Pandemic so serious Hospitals are firing staff who don't trust the medicine.Am I missing something.Ps Ryan Bowman Shrewsbury Town double jabbed anyone want to comment

1 Asymptomatic carriers exist. Testing is to find those people so they can avoid passing it on to someone who may have severe symptoms after a contact with them. We know that at the beginning of the pandemic that one contagious person had the potential, on average, to pass the virus on to three other people so this was important.

 

2 That's how vaccines work. We don't wait until a child shows symptoms before we vaccinate them against measles. When Measles vaccination rates were close to 100%, we were at eradication levels. Once Dr Wakefield's bullshit started to gain traction and hesitancy increased, so too did measles cases.

 

3 If your personal beliefs around modern medicine can potentially impact your ability to provide best care to your patients, you are probably in the wrong job.

 

 

Edited 11 October 2021 by Mike the Metal Ed

[Spudulike]

8 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

So you can't be 100% certain to the original point you made then? In that case, can you not see why it's possibly not a no-brainer for everyone? 

 

Like I said, you probably are right and I can have empathy for your choice in taking the vaccine, but can't you appreciate also why others may not have done so at this stage in time? 

 

I just think it's damning to say you struggle to respect anyone who hasn't had the vaccine, surely there are good people in your life that you know who haven't had it also? 

 

Unvaccinated people can also be considerate to those people you mention too by following social distancing, washing hands frequently and wearing face coverings where applicable, but still also choose not to have the vaccine, don't you think? 

It is a no brainer for everyone to be vaccinated. Of course it is. You are hundreds of times more likely to die (or have serious long term consequences) from covid than you are from the vaccinations. Everyone knows that, don't they? 

 

I don't ask everyone that I come in contact with what their vaccination status is. No one close to me is unvaccinated. 

 

Can we rely on those unvaccinated (and vaccinated) to follow the covid protocols? I would suggest not. 

 

You are playing Russian roulette with not only your health but also others. It defies logic. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, pmcla26 said:

So you can't be 100% certain to the original point you made then? In that case, can you not see why it's possibly not a no-brainer for everyone? 

 

Like I said, you probably are right and I can have empathy for your choice in taking the vaccine, but can't you appreciate also why others may not have done so at this stage in time? 

 

I just think it's damning to say you struggle to respect anyone who hasn't had the vaccine, surely there are good people in your life that you know who haven't had it also? 

 

Unvaccinated people can also be considerate to those people you mention too by following social distancing, washing hands frequently and wearing face coverings where applicable, but still also choose not to have the vaccine, don't you think? 

 

sorry but that’s just naive ……the unvaccinated are those most likely not to follow any protocols …..(as a generalisation of course)

Edited 11 October 2021 by st albans fox

[Spudulike]

6 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Personally for me, and many others, it isn't right now, but I totally get why for others it would be. Might seem silly to you but with my age and health status, plus with very little real world evidence so far (due to the short amount of time the vaccine has been in circulation) I'm just sat on the fence and not sure what to make of it all - just happy to bide my time before committing to getting the vaccine. 

 

I agree as a generalisation, but I said that they can be considerate. They're the things I do as an unvaccinated person to try to still keep people safe, but I do get your point. 

How long are you going to wait for? 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/22/us-coronavirus-covid-unvaccinated-hospital-rates-vaccines

[Otis]

3 hours ago, Spudulike said:

It is a no brainer for everyone to be vaccinated. Of course it is. You are hundreds of times more likely to die (or have serious long term consequences) from covid than you are from the vaccinations. Everyone knows that, don't they? 

 

I don't ask everyone that I come in contact with what their vaccination status is. No one close to me is unvaccinated. 

 

Can we rely on those unvaccinated (and vaccinated) to follow the covid protocols? I would suggest not. 

 

You are playing Russian roulette with not only your health but also others. It defies logic. 

Hundreds?

I would genuinely like to see the evidence?

[Spudulike]

20 minutes ago, Otis said:

Hundreds?

I would genuinely like to see the evidence?

Here's an article that might help. 

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/unvaccinated-people-are-more-likely-to-die-of-covid-19-because-they-are-more-vulnerable-to-infection-and-severe-disease-tomi-lahren/

[Carl the Llama]

We're stuck in groundhog day, perpetually explaining the same easy to grasp scientific concepts.  If you're scared of getting the jab just say so, no need for all this faux intellectual malarkey.

[purpleronnie]

15 minutes ago, Otis said:

Hundreds?

I would genuinely like to see the evidence?

First of all you have to prove the vaccination caused death, if you take the US for example, if a 90-year-old nursing home resident got the vaccine and then died days, weeks or even months later of another ailment, the resident’s death would be reported to VAERS (as a national early warning system to detect potential safety problems with vaccine).

 

Since December 2020, more than 350 million doses of COVID-19 vaccine have been administered in the U.S., and VAERS has received 6,968 reports of death (0.000019%).  

 

There has been 700,000 deaths from covid, so the crude mortality rate of catching and dying from covid would be (0.002%)

 

As you see death rate from dying from covid is much higher than from the vaccine.

[Soup]

59 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

We're stuck in groundhog day, perpetually explaining the same easy to grasp scientific concepts.  If you're scared of getting the jab just say so, no need for all this faux intellectual malarkey.

To be honest I'm a little bit concerned about the 3rd shot. I'd like to stick with AZ if possible and not mix it with Pfizer, but that doesn't look like it will happen. I'll have a decision to make when the time comes.

 

However I'm genuinely not scared of catching Covid at all. Other than the first few weeks I've not been the slightest bit worried. I've no idea why it's just the way I feel. 

[st albans fox]

2 hours ago, Soup said:

To be honest I'm a little bit concerned about the 3rd shot. I'd like to stick with AZ if possible and not mix it with Pfizer, but that doesn't look like it will happen. I'll have a decision to make when the time comes.

 

However I'm genuinely not scared of catching Covid at all. Other than the first few weeks I've not been the slightest bit worried. I've no idea why it's just the way I feel. 

And if you’re double jabbed you shouldn’t - get on with your life. If you’re unlucky enough to catch covid and be in the 10% of double vaccinated that suffer the same as if you hadn’t been jabbed then I guess that’s just crap.  But to live scared that you might be in that percentage (remembering  that your chances of being hospitalised in that 10% is way less than 1% anyway) isn’t justified.  
 

 

[Otis]

18 hours ago, Spudulike said:

Here's an article that might help. 

 

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/unvaccinated-people-are-more-likely-to-die-of-covid-19-because-they-are-more-vulnerable-to-infection-and-severe-disease-tomi-lahren/

Thanks, I actually missread your post, that'lll teach me to scan read.

 

I agree, the vaccine in most cases  prevents serious illness/death.

Edited 12 October 2021 by Otis