The Ashes 21/22

[sm1]

I expected Benny Hill music to start after the Pope dismissal. Our batting is a complete clown show.

 

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

I agree with what you’re saying about Root completely, however, the biggest question is who? 
I can’t think of an England player who is certain of their spot in the side other than root. 
Could you sacrifice some ability, to bring in a designated leader? Not sure, within the touring party has any leadership qualities.

With what some of the batters have offered would it really make much of a difference, what you lose with the bat you gain with better fielding, tactics etc.

 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, Walkers said:

The one bit of good news to come out of this is that there is absolutely no excuse to not have a total reset for red ball cricket 

That's the hope isn't it, but you can see from their selections they don't see things like everyone else

[Tommy Fresh]

8 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

With what some of the batters have offered would it really make much of a difference, what you lose with the bat you gain with better fielding, tactics etc.

 

I don't think Root is a great captain, but I can't think of any obvious choices to replace him

[Stinkenzo]

1 hour ago, Super_horns said:

Got another tour coming up soon.

 

Will they make changes that quickly?

Can see them going with an experimental sort of team atleast on the batting side of things. Perhaps persist with Crawley at the top given he was one of our better shit batsmen this time around. Either way whoever you pick, give them the three tests to prove themselves so they go out there without fear of being dropped. I can't imagine its easy for new batsmen coming into this side knowing a couple of low scores early on and you're already being written off by our cricketing media, who, I know we don't always give them much to shout about, but are a hell of a lot more critical and scathing than journalists in other sports.. I don't understand why Hameed was called up, were his numbers that great last summer? I remember he did alright but would he have got into this side had he not had that brief spell in the side 4 or 5 years ago? I doubt it. Does it spin much in the West Indies? Assuming Stokes won't be going you could chuck Livingstone in there and have two spin options in him and Root.

 

Crawley

?

?

Root

?

Livingstone?

Foakes

[Tommy Fresh]

7 minutes ago, Walkers said:

Can see them going with an experimental sort of team atleast on the batting side of things. Perhaps persist with Crawley at the top given he was one of our better shit batsmen this time around. Either way whoever you pick, give them the three tests to prove themselves so they go out there without fear of being dropped. I can't imagine its easy for new batsmen coming into this side knowing a couple of low scores early on and you're already being written off by our cricketing media, who, I know we don't always give them much to shout about, but are a hell of a lot more critical and scathing than journalists in other sports.. I don't understand why Hameed was called up, were his numbers that great last summer? I remember he did alright but would he have got into this side had he not had that brief spell in the side 4 or 5 years ago? I doubt it. Does it spin much in the West Indies? Assuming Stokes won't be going you could chuck Livingstone in there and have two spin options in him and Root.

 

Crawley

?

?

Root

?

Livingstone?

Foakes

Crawley/Libby

Yates/Robson

Bohannon

Root

Bairstow/Pope/Lawrence/Bracey

Livingstone

Foakes

 

A tour of the West Indies followed by a home summer is probably one of the best chances we'll get to try out some new faces and players who have performed at county level. I've mentioned Livingstone a lot before, gives you something different with the bat and a decent spin option, although the ECB have already said he's behind numerous people in red ball terms.

Edited 16 January 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I don't think Root is a great captain, but I can't think of any obvious choices to replace him

I know but the lack of professionalism in the side has to be addressed.

 

Lack of standards, drop catches, wickets of no-balls, poor tactic, poor selections, I just can't see how we move forward with the same coach and captain. 

 

Maybe a new coach and give Joe another 12 months. 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 minute ago, coolhandfox said:

I know but the lack of professionalism in the side has to be addressed.

 

Lack of standards, drop catches, wickets of no-balls, poor tactic, poor selections, I just can't see how we move forward with the same coach and captain. 

 

Maybe a new coach and give Joe another 12 months. 

I'd go with a new coach first, Kirsten is the perfect option (openly wants the test job) just need the ECB to show some initiative and get a separate white ball coach

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I'd go with a new coach first, Kirsten is the perfect option (openly wants the test job) just need the ECB to show some initiative and get a separate white ball coach

He would be my first choice. 

[RowlattsFox]

In many ways, today was the worst of the lot. There was a glimmer of a win opportunity, they had a reasonable start and an opportunity to build something and go close at least. But no I left it at 60 odd for 0 and by the time I've looked again they are all out. 

 

 

[BlueSi13]

In a way I'm delighted at the way that ended.  This has to be the watershed moment whereby the ECB realises it needs root and branch change.  

 

It's been said plenty of times, that most Cricket fans in this country would only be semi-receptive to the ECB's obsession with chasing the South Asian Dollar via white ball cricket and the Mickey Mouse 100 as long as the Test side is winning matches and winning series....ESPECIALLY the Ashes which is the pinnacle in the English Cricketing calendar.  Some may not like that fact, especially those seemingly in charge of the game who I still think believe the game can be twisted, manipulated, marketed and sold as a global game to rival Football, but the Ashes is everything.

 

Unfortunately though, in a way I struggle to see how this can be fixed because it's not just the executives who want a piece of that sweet Indian money pie, it's the players too.  Does a young player come up even wanting to play Test cricket knowing that if they want to get rich they need to play whack-a-ball in India?

 

There is a major disconnect between I feel between fans, and the executives/players.

 

 

[FoxyLeon]

18 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

In a way I'm delighted at the way that ended.  This has to be the watershed moment whereby the ECB realises it needs root and branch change.  

 

It's been said plenty of times, that most Cricket fans in this country would only be semi-receptive to the ECB's obsession with chasing the South Asian Dollar via white ball cricket and the Mickey Mouse 100 as long as the Test side is winning matches and winning series....ESPECIALLY the Ashes which is the pinnacle in the English Cricketing calendar.  Some may not like that fact, especially those seemingly in charge of the game who I still think believe the game can be twisted, manipulated, marketed and sold as a global game to rival Football, but the Ashes is everything.

 

Unfortunately though, in a way I struggle to see how this can be fixed because it's not just the executives who want a piece of that sweet Indian money pie, it's the players too.  Does a young player come up even wanting to play Test cricket knowing that if they want to get rich they need to play whack-a-ball in India?

 

There is a major disconnect between I feel between fans, and the executives/players.

 

 

 

 

As someone who occasionally watches cricket....Essentially when I'm flicking through Sky Sports and nothing else is on, you're not going to convince 'casuals' like me to sit through red ball cricket. 

 

It's slow, boring, and the fact you can't watch the whole thing if you work.

Who wants to watch say half a dozen hours of a 'Match', but miss all the key moments? You don't watch Leicester play, and leave at half time not caring about the rest of the game.

 

White Ball Cricket is the only reason Test Cricket still exists in this country, or at least exists to the extent it does, it's incorrect to state it's the other way around.

 

As long as a 'Test Match' cannot be viewed in its entirety, it's popularity will always be nowhere close to Football, or even something like Rugby.

[Super_horns]

Test cricket is still very popular in this country but I agree the county game is unlikely to be and doesn’t bring in the revenue the slap and dash stuff does .

 

White ball cricket has brought a new set of “fans” who just want a night out with mates .

Edited 17 January 2022 by Super_horns

[Duquesne Whistle]

16 minutes ago, FoxyLeon said:

You're not going to convince 'casuals' like me to sit through red ball cricket.  It's slow, boring, and the fact you can't watch the whole thing if you work. Who wants to watch say half a dozen hours of a 'Match', but miss all the key moments? You don't watch Leicester play, and leave at half time not caring about the rest of the game.

 

White Ball Cricket is the only reason Test Cricket still exists in this country, or at least exists to the extent it does, it's incorrect to state it's the other way around.

Not since Peter Taylor at least..

 

You're absolutely right of course, it's the most difficult sport to pull in new spectators because of the length of matches.

I'm not sure white ball cricket is the only reason Test cricket still exists in England, but you can definitely say that for some areas and nations. Indian test matches often have sparse crowds, as do some other cricketing nations, whilst T20 matches are often full to the rafters. Not so in England, where Tests tend to sell out, despite our Keystone cops team. However, to play Test cricket you need opponents, so it is dying out one way or another, in the long run. I doubt it's popularity will do anything other than wane in future though. Shame for us Test cricket lovers, but the times are a changin'.

 

 

[Voll Blau]

29 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

Test cricket is still very popular in this country but I agree the county game is unlikely to be and doesn’t bring in the revenue the slap and dash stuff does .

 

White ball cricket has brought a new set of “fans” who just want a night out with mates .

There's nothing wrong with that, though. I've got quite a few mates who are now into all forms of cricket because I took them to Grace Road for a Friday night out at the T20 over the years. The style of cricket may not be everyone's cup of tea, and there's certainly an overkill of it around the world, but the invention of T20 was a fantastic innovation by the ECB at the time.

 

The problem is the ECB are now snobbish about attracting that "lads out for a few beers while watching some local sport" demographic (a few of whom now have kids - potential future fans - themselves) in favour of the bollocks that is The Hundred - a competition allegedly aimed at families but which is unaffordable and impractical for most because it's only played in seven cities across the country.

Edited 17 January 2022 by Voll Blau

[Corky]

The ECB should do far more to encourage families to attend first class cricket but they won't because they believe kids can only sit there for a couple of hours at a time.

 

if you keep telling people it's too long and boring they'll be put off from going.

[RonnieTodger]

He’s divisive but Aggers was spot on when he said people care about test cricket. 
 

T20 and ODIs are great, but they’re not the pinnacle of the game. Look at the response of the Ashes compared to us throwing away the T20 Semi-final v New Zealand. 
 

We’ll still get sold out grounds to watch this useless England side.

[Tommy Fresh]

The Ashes in 2005, was how I ended up getting in to cricket. Prior to that series I hated cricket and had this idea it was a boring sport, having a series like that on terrestrial tv was massive and is probably half the issue now with attracting young people to the longer format. Without looking in to it the actual schedule, but I'm assuming having a majority of the County Championship played during the week throughout the school term doesn't help.

[Tommy Fresh]

10 hours ago, Corky said:

The ECB should do far more to encourage families to attend first class cricket but they won't because they believe kids can only sit there for a couple of hours at a time.

 

if you keep telling people it's too long and boring they'll be put off from going.

How much even is it to get in down Leicestershire for a first class game now, you'd still get value for money even if you only went for the afternoon.

[Finnegan]

14 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

The problem is the ECB are now snobbish about attracting that "lads out for a few beers while watching some local sport" demographic

 

Thing is, though, if you think cricket is an excuse for day drinking and a sing song, how seriously are you taking it as a sport? 

 

It's not a cheap hobby, especially if you're getting your kids in to it and they're growing, gear is costly and there's a fair bit of it. 

 

Ideally if you want to actually improve the game you need more than just extra revenue, you need extra participation and I'm guessing the ECB don't see your "lads lads lads" as mostly likely to get in to that on a serious level. 

 

They're probably not entirely wrong. 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Thing is, though, if you think cricket is an excuse for day drinking and a sing song, how seriously are you taking it as a sport? 

 

It's not a cheap hobby, especially if you're getting your kids in to it and they're growing, gear is costly and there's a fair bit of it. 

 

Ideally if you want to actually improve the game you need more than just extra revenue, you need extra participation and I'm guessing the ECB don't see your "lads lads lads" as mostly likely to get in to that on a serious level. 

 

They're probably not entirely wrong. 

That's sort of my point though. The exact lads I'm talking about are now serious cricket fans, it just needed that hook to get them interested in the first place and debunk the kind of preconceptions about the sport they might have had in their head.

 

One of those I mentioned finally decided to give playing a go in his early 30s a couple of years ago and was playing league cricket within a few months. Plus, when you talk about recruiting new recreational players, you're thinking about the future too - how much more likely are those same guys now to take their own children to a local club because they've previously been exposed to the sport themselves? Then, in turn, they're more likely to get involved behind the scenes at those clubs as volunteers.

 

I totally take your point on the cost of cricket though, it isn't a cheap sport to play and more should be done to make it affordable for all. But most clubs will have shared batting equipment and so on once kids get to playing the hard ball stuff.

[Super_horns]

Oh dear - the trouble doesn’t end on the pitch .

 

Seems to be the traditional thing to do but maybe got out of hand?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60035895

[RowlattsFox]

1 hour ago, Super_horns said:

Oh dear - the trouble doesn’t end on the pitch .

 

Seems to be the traditional thing to do but maybe got out of hand?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60035895

The video on Twitter doesn't look too bad. Obviously a lot could've gone on before that point.

 

Didn't realise it was early morning either  Thought it was the evening because it was daylight. Root doesn't seem like a drink til 6am type to me..

 

Also not a great look, when the video is filmed by Graham Thorpe and has made its way to social media.

Edited 18 January 2022 by RowlattsFox

[Vacamion]

 

For those talking about the young lads on the bevvy at the shorter forms of the game.

 

I am a middle-aged-old-before-my-time type and I've been going to Test cricket for years and each and every time I've been, I've had a right skinfull. 

 

Just because I took some sandwiches and snacks in a coolbag and I wasn't chanting or making a beer snake, it doesn't mean that the long form of the game isn't also quite a boozy experience.

 

At six quid a pop, they must make an utter fortune in the bars.

 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

23 hours ago, FoxyLeon said:

 

 

As someone who occasionally watches cricket....Essentially when I'm flicking through Sky Sports and nothing else is on, you're not going to convince 'casuals' like me to sit through red ball cricket. 

 

It's slow, boring, and the fact you can't watch the whole thing if you work.

Who wants to watch say half a dozen hours of a 'Match', but miss all the key moments? You don't watch Leicester play, and leave at half time not caring about the rest of the game.

 

White Ball Cricket is the only reason Test Cricket still exists in this country, or at least exists to the extent it does, it's incorrect to state it's the other way around.

 

As long as a 'Test Match' cannot be viewed in its entirety, it's popularity will always be nowhere close to Football, or even something like Rugby.

Yet Test Cricket sells out in this country in the same manner white ball stuff doesn't. 

 

There are currently 28 days of test cricket scheduled this summer in the UK - of which 22 days of it are currently at 95% publicly sold tickets. Day 4's will probably be around 50%ish and obviously Day 5's yet to go on sale. 

By comparison, there are 12 days of ODIs and T20s - you'll be able to pick up a ticket for these no problem currently. 

Every year the test hosting counties want those test matches over international ODIs and T20s 

 

So in no way possible is White Balle Cricket the reason Test Cricket exists. People kind of forgot T20 came rather coincidentally when cricket was firmly in the conscience of the English public; the victory in the Ashes that year quirked interest which was then followed through. 

 

International Test Cricket is the pinnacle of the sport. The Ashes and test series v India will indefinitely sell out. If you were viewing it from the POV of the television deals, you would be correct but the Test Matches are the king for the ECB.

Edited 18 January 2022 by Cardiff_Fox