Ukraine

[Collymore]

On 10/10/2022 at 07:34, Collymore said:

Which is only 40 or so miles away from the Nato border. 

 

Just shows you how one tiny miscalculation could send us in to world war so easily.

Called this last month, although yeah, maybe it won't be world war! 

[st albans fox]

For NATO to respond, it takes all members of NATO to agree - there is no chance that Turkey would agree to any violent response. 
 

infact, I wonder what it would actually take for erdogan to agree to an attack on Russian targets …… 

[Collymore]

On 10/10/2022 at 08:24, st albans fox said:

In case anyone else is worrying, a stray missile landing in a nato country will not spark WWIII

Proved right I hope.

[st albans fox]

Just now, Collymore said:

Proved right I hope.

It might not have been ‘stray’ ……

 

but as per my previous post, this incident won’t ratchet up to WWIII

[Lionator]

12 minutes ago, MPH said:

NATO will demand an immediate response and explanation from Russia.
 

It’s very possible that NATO could respond by destroying some Russian  rocket launchers stationed in Ukraine. It would never attack anything inside of Russia without Russia attacking a NATO country full on.  

 

if the reports of Ukraine shooting down a missile and it straying into Polish territory are accurate then it would be hard to pin this one on Russia.

 

 

NATO will want to establish the full facts before issuing a response.

NATO wouldn’t do anything aside from giving Ukraine extra weapons to do what you’ve suggested. 
 

If this was a deliberate, pre meditated, strategic attack on Poland then I’d be worried, but it clearly isn’t. 

[fox_favourite]

I’m leaning on more that it was a stray missile. But NATO needs to call this out very strongly. Weren’t they running out of precision missiles? Like someone else said, this is Putin throwing his toys out the pram at Ukraine, I think.

 

It doesn’t make it right and if I was Poland I would be fuming and be demanding an explanations. 
 

2022 just never stops!! It just keeps topping itself weekly now. 
 

This war just needs to stop! 

[LCFCCHRIS]

10 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

For NATO to respond, it takes all members of NATO to agree - there is no chance that Turkey would agree to any violent response. 
 

infact, I wonder what it would actually take for erdogan to agree to an attack on Russian targets …… 

In this case they won't respond with military action against Russia I don't think. But in a more serious case, I'm sure the other NATO countries could circumvent this turkish block somehow, even if it means acting "independently" but de facto NATO. Turkey is sure becoming a thorn in the side for NATO though recently.

Edited 15 November 2022 by LCFCCHRIS

[Fox1norfolk]

6 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

It might not have been ‘stray’ ……

 

but as per my previous post, this incident won’t ratchet up to WWIII

Modern missiles are normally so accurate, if you want to hit a building your can decide which particular room you want to hit. I suspect it was not a stray, but a threat

[st albans fox]

Just now, LCFCCHRIS said:

In this case they won't respond with military action against Russia I don't think. But in a more serious case, I'm sure the other NATO countries could circumvent this turkish block somehow, even if it means acting "independently" but de facto NATO.

It’s a new angle that I hadn’t considered. Putin might be trying to see how pliable erdogan remains.  NATO has looked very unified thus far but Russia might be trying to push the boundaries 

[fox_favourite]

Just now, Fox1norfolk said:

Modern missiles are normally so accurate, if you want to hit a building your can decide which particular room you want to hit. I suspect it was not a stray, but a threat

So could show incompetence or Ukraine shot one down and knocked it off course. Or Russian missiles are that bad. Not guaranteed it’s modern. 

[LiberalFox]

1 minute ago, Fox1norfolk said:

Modern missiles are normally so accurate, if you want to hit a building your can decide which particular room you want to hit. I suspect it was not a stray, but a threat

It probably wasn't a modern missile.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Fox1norfolk said:

Modern missiles are normally so accurate, if you want to hit a building your can decide which particular room you want to hit. I suspect it was not a stray, but a threat

Russia will publicly state that this was not their missile that struck in Poland. if it turns out to have been diverted by ukraine air defences then thats loosely true. 

[st albans fox]

Lavrov might suffer a bout of indigestion at breakfast in an hour or two …..

 

oh - apparently he’s already left 

Edited 15 November 2022 by st albans fox

[weller54]

7 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

It probably wasn't a modern missile.

Seemingly a casing was found and stamped on it was..

'best before 17/4/45'

[Daggers]

I for one can’t wait for the ELE asteroid or the alien invasion in 2023. 

[Silebyfox_89]

21 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Lavrov might suffer a bout of indigestion at breakfast in an hour or two …..

 

oh - apparently he’s already left 

Probably left a one-footer in the pan and nicked the toiletries from the hotel room the p***k.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

36 minutes ago, Fox1norfolk said:

Modern missiles are normally so accurate, if you want to hit a building your can decide which particular room you want to hit. I suspect it was not a stray, but a threat

Yes but Russia has none of these. Look at the heaps of garbage they equip their frontline tank units with. Litteraly 50 year old machines. 

[MPH]

35 minutes ago, Lionator said:

NATO wouldn’t do anything aside from giving Ukraine extra weapons to do what you’ve suggested. 
 

If this was a deliberate, pre meditated, strategic attack on Poland then I’d be worried, but it clearly isn’t. 

 

I think we also have to consider that this is a desperate attempt by Ukraine to get NATO  involved.  Just one of many options but Very unlikely though and most plausible option is that the Ukraine took the missile out mid air and it landed off course in Poland.

[Lionator]

Just now, MPH said:

 

I think we also have to consider that this is a desperate attempt by Ukraine to get NATO  involved.  Just one of many options but Very unlikely though and most plausible option is that the Ukraine took the missile out mid air and it landed off course in Poland.

I do think the most plausible explanation is a Russian stray missile (by a distance) given they were aiming multiple missiles at Lviv. However Ukraine will absolutely milk this in order to get new weaponry. 
 

Someone in the Russian military hierarchy is about to get in big trouble. 

[MPH]

Poland considering activating article 4. Which , of course, is NOT article 5

 

Polish government spokesman Piotr Muller has confirmed that there was an explosion that killed two Polish citizens.

Poland is raising the readiness of its military units, he says, and "verifying if we need to activate Nato Article Four".

That article says: "The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened."

Edited 15 November 2022 by MPH

[MPH]

 

haha Zelensky really going for it!

[ian__marshall]

Loads of reports for months that Russia's been using anti-aircraft missiles to attack Ukraine infrastructure as they're running low on precision missiles. I'm no weapons expert but from what I've read these missiles are extremely inaccurate when used against ground targets so would not surprise me in the slightest if a few gone crossed the border. 

 

I can see Nato ramping up sanctions even further on Russia and strangling the life out of the country.

[weller54]

13 minutes ago, ian__marshall said:

Loads of reports for months that Russia's been using anti-aircraft missiles to attack Ukraine infrastructure as they're running low on precision missiles. I'm no weapons expert but from what I've read these missiles are extremely inaccurate when used against ground targets so would not surprise me in the slightest if a few gone crossed the border. 

 

I can see Nato ramping up sanctions even further on Russia and strangling the life out of the country.

Ramping up sanctions now?... So killing thousands of innocent people in Ukraine over the last 9 months wasn't important enough to do that sooner then??

[fox_favourite]

Also, was thinking. Didn’t a Russian “malfunction on a fighter jet” cause a missile to nearly hit an RAF reconnaissance plane not long ago. Wasn’t there a series of  events, such as a damaged cable to the Shetland islands that took the internet out for a while and other things happen within a week? Now this.

 

It could be Ukraine trying to get more response from NATO but we really don’t know. Both use the same/similar weapons for the most part. I think without clear and that NATO can prove without doubt that this was a deliberate/intentional attack on nato territory, they wouldn’t go all out.  Sanctions, more weapons to Ukraine and a build up of troops on the boarder is what I think would happen. And a clear and unified message to Russia that this should never happen again.

Edited 15 November 2022 by fox_favourite

[ian__marshall]

3 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Ramping up sanctions now?... So killing thousands of innocent people in Ukraine over the last 9 months wasn't important enough to do that sooner then??

Of course but it's clearly a phased approach. Nato aren't going to play all of their cards at once hence why sanctions have gradually been ramped up over a period of time. Those sanctions again need to go further and deeper. The only other option is a military response but that'd just escalate the situation to another level which I'm sure we would all rather avoid for as long as possible.