K1FOX Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: Has there been an official statement or set of rules over what’s acceptable behaviour etc ? I haven’t read or heard of one Reading the room maybe? Unless you’re looking for a reaction why would you wear a rainbow hat. As far as a set of rules I haven’t travelled over so haven’t actively looked but I’m sure there would be some kind of guidance. Quick scan and this is what I’ve found as a general statement, “Everyone will be welcome to Qatar in 2022, regardless of their race, background, religion, gender, sexual orientation or nationality. We are a relatively conservative society – for example, public displays of affection are not a part of our culture. We believe in mutual respect and so whilst everyone is welcome, what we expect in return is for everyone to respect our culture and traditions.”
Guest Lako42 Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 1 hour ago, fuchsntf said: I reckon ..all Qater deniers should be put on ignore until Wcup is over.. Was the title of the thread you are posting in too hard to understand?
CosbehFox Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 2 minutes ago, K1FOX said: Reading the room maybe? Unless you’re looking for a reaction why would you wear a rainbow hat. As far as a set of rules I haven’t travelled over so haven’t actively looked but I’m sure there would be some kind of guidance. Quick scan and this is what I’ve found as a general statement, “Everyone will be welcome to Qatar in 2022, regardless of their race, background, religion, gender, sexual orientation or nationality. We are a relatively conservative society – for example, public displays of affection are not a part of our culture. We believe in mutual respect and so whilst everyone is welcome, what we expect in return is for everyone to respect our culture and traditions.” Because a rainbow hat is a sense of your identity in the same manner wearing a shirt of your national team is 1
Manley Farrington-Brown Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 3 hours ago, Lionator said: Why should Qatar be obliged to have our culture forced upon them? Qatar wanted to have the world cup there, went out of their way to have football fans from all over the world turn up. Nobody's obliging or forcing anything on them!
K1FOX Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 10 minutes ago, CosbehFox said: Because a rainbow hat is a sense of your identity in the same manner wearing a shirt of your national team is Surely you’re joking?
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 21 November 2022 Posted 21 November 2022 26 minutes ago, Daggers said: Got to be careful with the first game figures. The quality of game was pretty poor. Russia also suffered a low overall viewing for the first game in comparison to Brazil 4 years earlier. They ended up breaking records because in the latter stages. I suspect the 10am game tomorrow will be low just because of the time for example. If the figures to remain low in the latter stages compared to the Russia World Cup then we will all be confused!
Popular Post hejammy Posted 21 November 2022 Popular Post Posted 21 November 2022 What I don't get it when someone comes to England, we bang on about the fact that people coming here should respect our way of life, our culture and respect the way we do things. When we go abroad we don't do the same or we expect our way of life or culture to be the absolute correct one and insist others do as we do. What gives us the right to do that? It's their country, go there, enjoy yourself but live by their rules in their country. If you don't want to do that then don't go. If you are OK with that then go. 5
Hollism Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 4 hours ago, fuchsntf said: Because they play football,and are not political icons. just to satisfy some people’s whims. They have shown and been interviewed saying whats wrong… Wearing a band,would be good,but if your bosses,said you have to follow our rules,! no matter what it is… Its good Qater has been questioned and by some disgraced,but now it’s time for sportsman to do their job, not go into a political arena,but a football stadium. Please explain to me how wearing a One Love armband falls under “going into a political arena”. 1
K1FOX Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 19 minutes ago, Hollism said: Please explain to me how wearing a One Love armband falls under “going into a political arena”. Because the one love armband is being used to promote LGBTQ+. Something which Qatar clearly states they will not bend on. It’s outlawed in their country and across most Arab nations and although they’re accepting certain visitors to the World Cup will be of the LBGTQ type they don’t need it shoved down their throats as if their religion and culture is wrong and the western world is right.
leicsmac Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 1 hour ago, hejammy said: What I don't get it when someone comes to England, we bang on about the fact that people coming here should respect our way of life, our culture and respect the way we do things. When we go abroad we don't do the same or we expect our way of life or culture to be the absolute correct one and insist others do as we do. What gives us the right to do that? It's their country, go there, enjoy yourself but live by their rules in their country. If you don't want to do that then don't go. If you are OK with that then go. ....no one, with the current state of the world as it is. However, I would submit that there are some issues regarding basic human rights that should perhaps transcend national boundaries and apply as a whole species. 1 minute ago, K1FOX said: Because the one love armband is being used to promote LGBTQ+. Something which Qatar clearly states they will not bend on. It’s outlawed in their country and across most Arab nations and although they’re accepting certain visitors to the World Cup will be of the LBGTQ type they don’t need it shoved down their throats as if their religion and culture is wrong and the western world is right. If someone's religion forbids two consenting adults from showing that they love each other openly, then perhaps the proponents might want to examine its tenets a little further and look for a little more empathy. Organised religion should have no place in legislature or the political running of any state IMO anyway. What happens to women and pretty much anyone who isn't a straight guy in terms of equality proves this. It belongs as a chapter of history, not in 2022. 2
Hollism Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 1 hour ago, K1FOX said: Because the one love armband is being used to promote LGBTQ+. Something which Qatar clearly states they will not bend on. It’s outlawed in their country and across most Arab nations and although they’re accepting certain visitors to the World Cup will be of the LBGTQ type they don’t need it shoved down their throats as if their religion and culture is wrong and the western world is right. It’s being used to promote that love is love, and all forms of that are equal and valid. You happily quoted a Qatari statement further up this page saying that everyone is welcome regardless of sexual orientation. I fail to see where the conflict is, unless of course, the PR drivel you’re directing us all to is complete bollocks? Regarding the second part. I agree that we don’t have any right to say our way of life is the correct one. There’s no such thing. Although I am strongly of the opinion that it is correct for no person to have more or less rights than another based on the protected characteristics, anywhere in the world. It’s a belief that will always come ahead of football for me, and it’s sad that so many people disagree and support this World Cup by watching it. 4
Jattdogg Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 Havent watched a game yet and dont miss it or care..nor am i bragging.. i wont force my views on others as i respect everyone's right to watch(or not) the games as they see fit. Do you! Be happy! 1
Popular Post Pliskin Posted 22 November 2022 Popular Post Posted 22 November 2022 (edited) What I’m struggling to understand is some peoples completely nonchalant approach the the subject of human rights, women’s rights and the rights of the members of the LGBTQ+ community. Flipping it off as “no one in this particular field actually gives a shit”….. Can I just point out that none of these things are ‘culture’ they’re basic rights for humans, all over the world no matter where you’re from. Nations apply certain rules and laws to mould their wanted way of life, there will be no original religious text anywhere that will directly translate ‘men are more than women and two people of the same sex can’t love one another’…. And another point to raise is, the flags and signage for communities such as the LGBTQ+ are not political symbols, they’re to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people within the community. The attitude towards it even on this forum has been shocking, reducing it to a behaviour or “English way of life”….. Proper treatment of human beings is not a cultural difference, it should be a basic necessity in any given nation……. The Nazi party built their government on hatred and discrimination, should they have been pardoned because it was their ‘culture’…… Edited 22 November 2022 by Pliskin 6 1
Mark_w Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 On 20/11/2022 at 13:07, Finnegan said: What I would say though is that I'm not entirely sure how much of a protest not watching it ACTUALLY is. They're not hosting it to generate money from advertising revenue, they've spent hundreds of billions hosting it, the whole thing is an acceptable loss, they don't give a shit. They're hosting it for obvious sports washing and the cost is considered reasonable. They want the legitimacy and prestige that hosting this gives. Sure, there's some minor potential for embarrassment if the BBC or ITV report that viewing figures are lower than normal but I think that's pretty much a drop in the ocean. If people want or wanted to actively protest then I think that's the point, it needs or needed to be ACTIVE protest. Not just turning off. Whole nations needed to refuse to go, players needed to refuse to go, people needed to be in the streets protesting demanding their countries pull out. And the wider issue generally is our governments pandering to these regimes because there's something in it for us (allies in the region, oil, etc.) Of course all of this could be me internally justifying my non-action to make myself feel better but I do think that a generic "boycott" (ie, not watching it from your armchair and doing fvck all else) is really just a "protest" for you to feel good about yourself more than one that's actually going to bring any change. I think the thing is, it's not about hurting Qatar. We're in no position to do that. It's about protesting against and hurting FIFA. If we actively boycott, on a large enough scale, then hopefully broadcasters take that into account when they're bidding to cover a World Cup if FIFA try this shit again. Hopefully advertisers of those broadcasts think twice about puttiing their brand on broadcasts of World Cups in these circumstances. Hopefully it makes FIFA sponsors even more uncomfortable about supporting another World Cup like this one. If we all sit and watch, then FIFA get all the financial benefits of hosting in Qatar and just a bit of bad press that, if it doesn't hurt them financially, they don't give even the tiniest shit about. This is the only means we have on an individual level of saying that taking this tournament and all the benefits it brings to a country that treats women and LGBTQ+ people the way it does, is wrong. It might not make a difference to this World Cup to boycott, but we desperately need to create some negatives in FIFA's mindset when they're thinking about whether they do what they inevitably want to do and take Saudi Arabia's money in 2030. 2
K1FOX Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 (edited) Not going to bother responding to both people who’ve quoted my post because it’ll be the same back and forth. In general what I will say is that so far they have been well accommodating of everyone who is there. 3 days in and people who are actually there on the ground by all accounts are having a great time regardless of sexual orientation or gender for that matter. In fact from many videos I’ve seen there’s a lot of females there and all look like they’re having a blast. The scaremongering and the constant negativity is coming from the media back home. And if we’re going to be calling out refusing a rainbow bucket hat as a reason to lambast Qatar and saying ‘this is why they shouldn’t have the world cup’ then we should hang our heads in shame. The people of Qatar are proud of their country and don’t deserve to be bashed with a generic stick constantly when they’re trying to put on a World Cup. Edited 22 November 2022 by K1FOX 1
Popular Post Daggers Posted 22 November 2022 Popular Post Posted 22 November 2022 8 hours ago, hejammy said: What I don't get it when someone comes to England, we bang on about the fact that people coming here should respect our way of life, our culture and respect the way we do things. When we go abroad we don't do the same or we expect our way of life or culture to be the absolute correct one and insist others do as we do. What gives us the right to do that? It's their country, go there, enjoy yourself but live by their rules in their country. If you don't want to do that then don't go. If you are OK with that then go. Speak for yourself. Some of ‘we’ value diversity. 6 1
shade Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 7 hours ago, Hollism said: Please explain to me how wearing a One Love armband falls under “going into a political arena”. it's the very definition of political, imagine if some enlightened country had come to the UK in the 1950s lauding their supposedly moral virtuosity over us. 30 minutes ago, Pliskin said: What I’m struggling to understand is some peoples completely nonchalant approach the the subject of human rights, women’s rights and the rights of the members of the LGBTQ+ community. Flipping it off as “no one in this particular field actually gives a shit”….. Can I just point out that none of these things are ‘culture’ they’re basic rights for humans, all over the world no matter where you’re from. Nations apply certain rules and laws to mould their wanted way of life, there will be no original religious text anywhere that will directly translate ‘men are more than women and two people of the same sex can’t love one another’…. And another point to raise is, the flags and signage for communities such as the LGBTQ+ are not political symbols, they’re to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people within the community. The attitude towards it even on this forum has been shocking, reducing it to a behaviour or “English way of life”….. Proper treatment of human beings is not a cultural difference, it should be a basic necessity in any given nation……. The Nazi party build their government on hatred and discrimination, should they have been pardoned because it was their ‘culture’…… The flags have been coopted by a subset of the movement, and to promote a radical left wing, ultra libertarian agenda. Are you telling me that the flags flying during pride MONTH in the UK are "to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people in the community". 2 1
Mark_w Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 4 minutes ago, shade said: The flags have been coopted by a subset of the movement, and to promote a radical left wing, ultra libertarian agenda. Are you telling me that the flags flying during pride MONTH in the UK are "to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people in the community". Are you telling me they're trying to overthrow the state, destroy capitalism and bring about a socialist utopia by waving their pretty rainbow flags? I think they're probably doing it to say, yes we love each other, yes it's ok to love each other (to those who are struggling with the way they feel internally vs. the way they've been educated to view the world) and no we're not going to sit quietly and be discriminated against because of who we love nobody should. I am just guessing, but I think that's a lot more likely. 2
grobyfox1990 Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 41 minutes ago, Pliskin said: What I’m struggling to understand is some peoples completely nonchalant approach the the subject of human rights, women’s rights and the rights of the members of the LGBTQ+ community. Flipping it off as “no one in this particular field actually gives a shit”….. Can I just point out that none of these things are ‘culture’ they’re basic rights for humans, all over the world no matter where you’re from. Nations apply certain rules and laws to mould their wanted way of life, there will be no original religious text anywhere that will directly translate ‘men are more than women and two people of the same sex can’t love one another’…. And another point to raise is, the flags and signage for communities such as the LGBTQ+ are not political symbols, they’re to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people within the community. The attitude towards it even on this forum has been shocking, reducing it to a behaviour or “English way of life”….. Proper treatment of human beings is not a cultural difference, it should be a basic necessity in any given nation……. The Nazi party built their government on hatred and discrimination, should they have been pardoned because it was their ‘culture’…… I don't think its the prevailing attitude on this forum, there's been one or two posts and that is no bad thing, diversity of thought is key. It does no one any good by chasing out the Qatari local who used to post on here. I remember the covid thread , absolute cesspit of 'HAVE A YOU A PEER REVIEWED PAPER TO BACK THAT UP!!!' yeh real good way to engage and convince people, confrontation and belittlement... Shouldn't do the same here! Whilst there's no direct translation i think every major religious text indirectly places men above women, at least that's what i was told by a very clever looking man in a tweed jacket few weeks ago. It's great that you are pointing out these things are human rights, not cultural norms, because they are. I hope this momentum continues in highlighting the vast impact we as the UK have on the world with forced labour, emissions dumping and our generally very loose view of human rights when it benefits us via cheap products et al and someone else is dying for them. Methinks it won't.... 1
CosbehFox Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 2 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: I don't think its the prevailing attitude on this forum, there's been one or two posts and that is no bad thing, diversity of thought is key. It does no one any good by chasing out the Qatari local who used to post on here. I remember the covid thread , absolute cesspit of 'HAVE A YOU A PEER REVIEWED PAPER TO BACK THAT UP!!!' yeh real good way to engage and convince people, confrontation and belittlement... Shouldn't do the same here! Whilst there's no direct translation i think every major religious text indirectly places men above women, at least that's what i was told by a very clever looking man in a tweed jacket few weeks ago. It's great that you are pointing out these things are human rights, not cultural norms, because they are. I hope this momentum continues in highlighting the vast impact we as the UK have on the world with forced labour, emissions dumping and our generally very loose view of human rights when it benefits us via cheap products et al and someone else is dying for them. Methinks it won't.... Get your post and all but he’s an Australian who lives in Qatar. Western foreign nationals have a different lifestyle to others in Qatar (and plenty of other ME examples). I don’t think that can be denied really. Funnily enough I know a lad who had to exit the country quick with his partner because they had sex outside of marriage and she was pregnant. They were advised to do two seperate bookings for the flight back to the UK and enter the airport as though they were individuals. They were concerned that if their employer or the local authorities spotted anything they’d be arrested. His Dad had very good job managing property in Doha 2
Daggers Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 26 minutes ago, shade said: The flags have been coopted by a subset of the movement, and to promote a radical left wing, ultra libertarian agenda. Are you telling me that the flags flying during pride MONTH in the UK are "to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people in the community". That’s a complete word soup of bullshit. 1 2
K1FOX Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 The other thing to note is why hasn’t there been this level of uproar for any other tournament in the past? And will there be the same consistent scrutiny of USA 26 or is that going to be back to normal and enjoy the football. Keep politics out of it?
Hollism Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 35 minutes ago, shade said: it's the very definition of political, imagine if some enlightened country had come to the UK in the 1950s lauding their supposedly moral virtuosity over us. The flags have been coopted by a subset of the movement, and to promote a radical left wing, ultra libertarian agenda. Are you telling me that the flags flying during pride MONTH in the UK are "to raise awareness to those without the proper education to understand the people in the community". The very definition of political… interesting. So making a gesture or similar to make a statement that you know will upset a government or governing organisation is one definition of politics? Have I got that right?
fox_up_north Posted 22 November 2022 Posted 22 November 2022 Let's flip this slightly - where would we stand if Qatar said it didn't want to see any symbols of someone's religion (a star of david), tattoos (tribal or Native American tattoos) or culture (big afro hair on women). As others have pointed out, rainbow colours have been used for decades to show pride in oneself, for people who are gay. It is a demonstration that they feel comfortable being who they are, naturally. It's not a choice for them.
Recommended Posts