Also in the News - Part 2

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, The Doctor said:

https://news.sky.com/story/ship-grounded-in-egypts-suez-canal-one-of-worlds-busiest-shipping-routes-12888801

 

Reading the article it seems that ships running aground in the Canal happens a few times each year - the problem is if the tugs can’t re float within a few hours 

[Jon the Hat]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

On topic:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65692233

 

"US retailer Target is removing some items from its LGBTQ Pride Collection after threats and confrontations in certain stores.

The company said on Tuesday the move would protect employees after what it described as "volatile circumstances" in some of its 2,000 shops."

 

Feel free to join the rest of the "first world" in somewhere approaching the 21st Century any time, guys.

I mean to be fair, the ones being immediately removed are under the Abprallen label, which has been criticised for using images of pentagrams, horned skulls and other Satanic visuals. 

I can imagine the more religious communities probably would challenge a store on that, and the store would want to react.  Not sure we are talking about counter protests and death threats here.

[Daggers]

What’s wrong with satanic images?

 

\m/

[Wymsey]

They're making themselves look ridiculous, now..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65707564

Edited 25 May 2023 by Wymsey

[ClaphamFox]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

If we can somehow hold civilisation together for the next fifty years, imagine where we'll be in terms of such medical tech.

[leicsmac]

37 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I mean to be fair, the ones being immediately removed are under the Abprallen label, which has been criticised for using images of pentagrams, horned skulls and other Satanic visuals. 

I can imagine the more religious communities probably would challenge a store on that, and the store would want to react.  Not sure we are talking about counter protests and death threats here.

Certainly they would challenge it, and show themselves up (yet again) as hypocrites, preventing promotion of one registered religion while safeguarding and promoting their own registered one (look the registration up if you don't believe me) in a country that is supposed to guarantee religious freedom (look how that's working in practice, huh?)

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

They're making themselves look ridiculous, now..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65707564

The idea of neo-Luddism being presented really should be plenty ridiculous anyway.

 

If I didn't know any better, they might be being pushed in that manner for exactly that reason - to look ridiculous and therefore discredit the entire movement for action against climate change in the minds of the ignorant.

 

Hopefully there are enough people who *aren't* that ignorant and can parse the difference.

[Dunge]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The idea of neo-Luddism being presented really should be plenty ridiculous anyway.

 

If I didn't know any better, they might be being pushed in that manner for exactly that reason - to look ridiculous and therefore discredit the entire movement for action against climate change in the minds of the ignorant.

 

Hopefully there are enough people who *aren't* that ignorant and can parse the difference.

These guys are to the environmental movement what PETA is to the animal rights movement.

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

These guys are to the environmental movement what PETA is to the animal rights movement.

A liability almost as big as Vestergaard, yes.

Edited 25 May 2023 by leicsmac

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

What’s wrong with satanic images?

 

\m/

Nothing to me   But the god squad do get a little upset.  I quite like a bit of Witchcraft me, my first cousin once removed was a well known wiccan.

[Jon the Hat]

38 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Certainly they would challenge it, and show themselves up (yet again) as hypocrites, preventing promotion of one registered religion while safeguarding and promoting their own registered one (look the registration up if you don't believe me) in a country that is supposed to guarantee religious freedom (look how that's working in practice, huh?)

Most religions don't recognize the others, that is rather the point I think.  Makes no sense to me either way.  I think the point is, this is a story about a shop reacting to unhappy customers in particular branches, which is generally how business works. 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Most religions don't recognize the others, that is rather the point I think.  Makes no sense to me either way.  I think the point is, this is a story about a shop reacting to unhappy customers in particular branches, which is generally how business works. 

Yeah, dogma-thumpers being hypocrites isn't really news, as you say.

 

I'm not entirely sure a business being made to withdraw products because of violence directed against them (not if the products don't actually possess any capacity to harm anyway) is a good argument for the free market, though.

[Wymsey]

Apparently schools may not be able to use the 'Of Mice and Men' book for student study in the future, due to concerns over apparent racial slurs that it contains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65700288

 

Even though they may have a point, it just feels that part today's society are becoming quite touchy and easily offended by something like this - that's been studied in schools for possibly decades - and believe that it needs to be removed from history - no?..

 

Plus, would me disagreeing with scrapping this novel for student study make me come across as racist by those criticise the book by some?

Edited 25 May 2023 by Wymsey

[Sampson]

19 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Apparently schools may not be able to use the 'Of Mice and Men' book for student study in the future, due to concerns over apparent racial slurs that it contains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65700288

 

Even though they may have a point, it just feels that part today's society are becoming quite touchy and easily offended by something like this - that's been studied in schools for possibly decades - and believe that it needs to be removed from history - no?..

 

Plus, would me disagreeing with scrapping this novel for student study make me come across as racist by those criticise the book by some?

Tbf, most of the "anti-woke" crowd would probably love this. Tories have been trying to get that book off the curriculum for years because of its "anti-American dream" message and the book's general themes that the Tory message that "everyone can make it if they try hard enough" is a lie. Michael Gove infamously hated both Of Mice & Men and To Kill a Mockingbird and tried to get them struck off the school curriculum a few years back.

[Captain...]

20 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Apparently schools may not be able to use the 'Of Mice and Men' book for student study in the future, due to concerns over apparent racial slurs that it contains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65700288

 

Even though they may have a point, it just feels that part today's society are becoming quite touchy and easily offended by something like this - that's been studied in schools for possibly decades - and believe that it needs to be removed from history - no?..

 

Plus, would me disagreeing with scrapping this novel for student study make me come across as racist by those criticise the book by some?

I think we always need to be considerate to the feelings of the person raising this. Whilst it is an accurate representation of the language and sentiments of the time, it doesn't mean it can't cause offence to a 15-16 year old black teenager seeing the N word in print and hearing other kids read it aloud. Maybe even discussing the use of it within the context of the book.

 

I don't know how uncomfortable a black teen would feel in that situation. Imagine a black teen in a predominantly white school that has been bullied and discriminated against, then has to listen to the kid that's bullied him use that word in class as part of an approved text and in a discussion of the racism of the time.

 

The educational idealist in me says that part of school is to discuss these topics and confront the racism of the past and of today and the use of the N-word. The realist says it is likely to lead to problems and cause offence and make the lives of some kids more unpleasant and is it really worth it when there is a wealth of other great novels that don't use the N-word.

 

[bovril]

43 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I think we always need to be considerate to the feelings of the person raising this. Whilst it is an accurate representation of the language and sentiments of the time, it doesn't mean it can't cause offence to a 15-16 year old black teenager seeing the N word in print and hearing other kids read it aloud. Maybe even discussing the use of it within the context of the book.

 

I don't know how uncomfortable a black teen would feel in that situation. Imagine a black teen in a predominantly white school that has been bullied and discriminated against, then has to listen to the kid that's bullied him use that word in class as part of an approved text and in a discussion of the racism of the time.

 

The educational idealist in me says that part of school is to discuss these topics and confront the racism of the past and of today and the use of the N-word. The realist says it is likely to lead to problems and cause offence and make the lives of some kids more unpleasant and is it really worth it when there is a wealth of other great novels that don't use the N-word.

 

If there is racial bullying at a school I'd suggest studying literature in which these views are prevalent is probably a good idea

[Captain...]

1 minute ago, bovril said:

If there is racial bullying at a school I'd suggest studying literature in which these views are prevalent is probably a good idea

I would agree in an ideal world but I also know what kids are like in reality. I can imagine a classroom of 30 15 year olds reacting to someone reading out the N-word.

[urban.spaceman]

A visual metaphor for the last 13 years.

 

 

[Zear0]

Just now, urban.spaceman said:

A visual metaphor for the last 13 years.

 

 

Was it Suella? 

[urban.spaceman]

9 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Was it Suella? 

Can't be, she's been in hiding all day.

[Wymsey]

Being treated as non-terrorism related.

 

The vehicle seemed to have slowly hit the gates (?), judging from the footage provided.

Edited 25 May 2023 by Wymsey

[LiberalFox]

7 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Apparently schools may not be able to use the 'Of Mice and Men' book for student study in the future, due to concerns over apparent racial slurs that it contains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65700288

 

Even though they may have a point, it just feels that part today's society are becoming quite touchy and easily offended by something like this - that's been studied in schools for possibly decades - and believe that it needs to be removed from history - no?..

 

Plus, would me disagreeing with scrapping this novel for student study make me come across as racist by those criticise the book by some?

I feel like it's perfectly reasonable for a young black girl to raise concerns about racial slurs in a book and to start a discussion about whether it's appropriate to include a book that contains them. It says more about each of us really in how we choose to react to it. 

[RobHawk]

26 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I feel like it's perfectly reasonable for a young black girl to raise concerns about racial slurs in a book and to start a discussion about whether it's appropriate to include a book that contains them. It says more about each of us really in how we choose to react to it. 

I agree, it's a perfectly reasonable debate to be having, the language should not automatically mean it is taken off the syllabus either though. It's certainly an interesting one and I find myself somewhat on the fence. 

 

From a personal point of view, it was one of the very few books we read at school that I enjoyed and found interesting. I also have no recollection of the language used so that didn't stick with me in any way. 

 

I do think there's a huge opportunity for the schools to use it and look at the use of language to understand why it's so hurtful, but also why it's also been reclaimed to some extent and the discussion on both sides of that argument.

 

Imagine studying of mice and men and comparing it to a relevant rap song, discussing language and its context and intent. 

[Jon the Hat]

2 hours ago, Wymsey said:

Being treated as non-terrorism related.

 

The vehicle seemed to have slowly hit the gates (?), judging from the footage provided.

Crashes seems like an overstatement here.  Drives slowly into would be more accurate.