In terms of underperformance, Leicester City in 22/23 is one of the worst Premier League relegations of all time

[Les-TA-Jon]

11 hours ago, Pliskin said:

Articles like this are stupid….. any team that gets relegated, are clearly not very good….. the worst ever are Derby, those who finish with the least amount of points are the worst. 
 

Utter nonsense. 

Thanks for your reasoned contribution...

 

Do you see the distinction between:

• 'worst ever performance' = Derby on 11 points 
• 'worst ever relegation in terms of underperformance' = Leicester in 22/23

???

[Les-TA-Jon]

On 02/06/2023 at 12:28, Les-TA-Jon said:

Surely no one at the club can seriously think we can bounce straight back? 

 

We've got 2 months to appoint a manager, a whole new coaching team, and probably 15-20 players going in and out of the club. It's way too much change at once, the club has already lost tons of income, now compounded by relegation, most of the parachute payment will be swallowed up by loans being called.

 

And this is a club that had 2 terrible summer windows in a row. I'm not confident. There's more chance of us going down next season than being promoted.

 

9 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

This aged pretty well...?!?    You still having the same thoughts now about bouncing straight back?

Well obviously that aged poorly. It's pretty easy to make most predictions look bad with hindsight isn't it? 

 

There was a large contingent of the forum that had a negative outlook for this season, for the reasons I listed. And most of what I said was/is true and was valid. 

 

We did have to appoint a manager, have a huge turnover of players in a small period of time. The club was the same setup that just presided over a terrible relegation and 2 rubbish summer windows. 

 

It's precisely because of this context compared to how we're playing and the feeling at the club that illustrates what a fantastic job Enzo (and the recruitment team) have done. 

 

More than happy to admit that the bit in bold was pure hyperbole though

[ParkerPen]

Just now, Les-TA-Jon said:

 

Well obviously that aged poorly. It's pretty easy to make most predictions look bad with hindsight isn't it? 

 

There was a large contingent of the forum that had a negative outlook for this season, for the reasons I listed. And most of what I said was/is true and was valid. 

 

We did have to appoint a manager, have a huge turnover of players in a small period of time. The club was the same setup that just presided over a terrible relegation and 2 rubbish summer windows. 

 

It's precisely because of this context compared to how we're playing and the feeling at the club that illustrates what a fantastic job Enzo (and the recruitment team) have done. 

 

More than happy to admit that the bit in bold was pure hyperbole though

I was also of the same view as you, in that I thought we'd be mid table this season, and if nothing else I certainly expected a slow start !

 

shows what I know

[sacreblueits442]

12 hours ago, shailen said:

We were a toxic club to be around last season. A culture created by the miscommunication between the board and manager and then the manager slamming the board for not giving him funds to invest which undermined the squad. 

 

This led to a real confidence crisis within our squad last season and it felt that it was most apparent at the back where we looked nervous all season. 

 

The new management has turned it around this season and look what a difference it has made so far. 

...there is surely  a caveat to this lack of confidence emanating from the board not giving Rodgers funds, it was clear that Soyuncu would have made a big difference had he been used!!!

  This is about a manager who destroyed a club from within and sought to be paid handsomely for his actions. The situation with the board are the smokescreen that he was using to deflect from his stewardship.

  He fostered a set of players who were coming out to publicly support him, out of all these, the only player who I would want to come back is Barnes, you can certainly keep the rest.

[Dan]

The longer time goes on the more I think it looks pretty obvious it's the most avoidable relegation you'll ever see. It's far worse than something like Newcastle in 2009 or Aston Villa in 2016, despite both being bigger clubs (albeit neither had achieved close to what we had in the subsequent years running up) ours really did come a bit out of nothing. It was nothing that an early sacking wouldn't have fixed.

 

I'm glad we look to have changed things for the better on the pitch but I'm even more convinced now than I was at the time about the level of ineptness that was actually on show. I think Leeds in 2004 is the only thing really comparable.

[sacreblueits442]

10 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

That's my biggest worry. He's still at the club and Maresca will see through him, if he hasn't already. I really hope some kind of circumstances lead to him and Whelan pissing off.

... Whelan is going nowhere, she works for King Power, she is immovable!!!

  Rudkin did not have a hand in bringing Maresca in, it will be a fascinating relationship between the two of them.

[sacreblueits442]

10 hours ago, honeybradger said:

Personally i am happy with the board as long as we keep on winning and/or improving as a team.

...anyone would accept those situations, it is when things start to go wrong when you know how effective the support around you is!!!

  We watched them tolerate for years, a situation that a fair amount of the supporters were crying out be be addressed.

  This board has struck lucky at this moment, but we know as soon as there are fundamental problems to be addressed,  they will kick it down the road, they always do.

[Dan]

12 hours ago, Gamble92 said:

The worst thing is no one really got made accountable and this season's brilliant work by Maresca will likely all be seen as Rudkin's superb work by Top. 

 

I fully expect an air of arrogance and a told you so attitude from Top and Rudkin to come from this. They'll not see their incredible ineptitude got us here in the first place. We are so stacked with players that would get into Europa League sides and above that we simply couldn't shift all of them in one go so have a vastly superior squad to everyone. Way to go Rudders.

 

That's my biggest worry. He's still at the club and Maresca will see through him, if he hasn't already. I really hope some kind of circumstances lead to him and Whelan pissing off.

It's already started a bit on here - from the same types who'll without a hint of irony tell you you're getting ahead of yourself assuming we'll get promoted.

[Gamble92]

34 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

It's already started a bit on here - from the same types who'll without a hint of irony tell you you're getting ahead of yourself assuming we'll get promoted.

I know the type. The ones who were telling us we shouldn't expect to go back up, if we do go back up will be the first to condescendingly laugh at us for moaning about our first loss. They'll say something like this is the big boys league again, we aren't good enough. 

 

I wonder if they get a kick out of watching others who genuinely want us to succeed to be honest. Something quite sadist about it.

[Daggers]

15 hours ago, Foxy-Lady said:

This aged pretty well...?!?    You still having the same thoughts now about bouncing straight back?

As the season closed and we entered a pretty wank pre-season, I thought we were heading back to the Third tier. There was nothing in our previous few signing periods that indicated we had the ability to revamp the squad, and Maresca was a total unknown. It’s hardly going to be a ‘gotcha’ moment for anyone digging out my posts on the subject, I think most of us were very underwhelmed.

[Cincinnati Fox]

I ****ing hate Brendan rodgers

[Dahnsouff]

32 minutes ago, Cincinnati Fox said:

I ****ing hate Brendan rodgers

Who?

[Dan]

12 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Who?

Cincinnati Fox I think

[Kinowe Soorie]

14 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

Who?

Ronnie Pickering!

[SafewayFox]

Like many others have said, I was extremely nervous how we’d start the season and Enzo and his team have been very impressive so far.

 

How we respond to our next loss, drop of form from key players will be interesting to see pan out BUT one thing that can’t be underestimated by Enzo so far is his utilisation of the squad, under Rodgers we regularly had 5/6 player’s completely frozen out.

[LCFCJohn]

On 13/10/2023 at 00:48, Gamble92 said:

The worst thing is no one really got made accountable and this season's brilliant work by Maresca will likely all be seen as Rudkin's superb work by Top. 

 

I fully expect an air of arrogance and a told you so attitude from Top and Rudkin to come from this. They'll not see their incredible ineptitude got us here in the first place. We are so stacked with players that would get into Europa League sides and above that we simply couldn't shift all of them in one go so have a vastly superior squad to everyone. Way to go Rudders.

 

That's my biggest worry. He's still at the club and Maresca will see through him, if he hasn't already. I really hope some kind of circumstances lead to him and Whelan pissing off.

It will be worrying if so. It is clearer and clearer by the week that how things are going this season is down to the manager, his back room team and playing squad. I have no idea who made the call to bring him in but given their incompetence, you can’t l seriously see it as pre-planned solid judgement. More likely a case of ‘let’s copy Man City’ and they have fallen lucky that Enzo is a class act (man and manager). 
 

It also shows Rodgers up more and more for what he was and makes any claims he would have kept us up less and less credible.

 

Top and Rudkin still should be hanging their heads in shame and not dining off the success of others this season. 

Edited 14 October 2023 by LCFCJohn

[fuchsntf]

On 13/10/2023 at 10:08, Les-TA-Jon said:

 

Well obviously that aged poorly. It's pretty easy to make most predictions look bad with hindsight isn't it? 

 

There was a large contingent of the forum that had a negative outlook for this season, for the reasons I listed. And most of what I said was/is true and was valid. 

 

We did have to appoint a manager, have a huge turnover of players in a small period of time. The club was the same setup that just presided over a terrible relegation and 2 rubbish summer windows. 

 

It's precisely because of this context compared to how we're playing and the feeling at the club that illustrates what a fantastic job Enzo (and the recruitment team) have done. 

 

More than happy to admit that the bit in bold was pure hyperbole though

It’s not hindsight…Taking down…

Surely no one at the club can seriously think we can bounce straight back? 
 

It’s the arrogance of delivery of this type of bombastic prediction…sort of forcing you will of negative thought on others..

The audacity to push a leading role of opinion.Especially in a time of

Fan confusion,hurt,and frustration and the club in seeming disarray,where there was no ground or sense to make any type of statement.
 

Whether club or individual in sport..one can fall onto the path of catastrophic collapse & implosion, an holding  secure,but with little aspiration path,

or one attacks the deluge of misery,  swallows one’s self pity then with a search, find and rediscover path, giving hope & creating a new platform & system that allows you to compete & challenge,with that aspiration,even further ambition doors ,being given first new locks that present new keys that carry’s one over the threshold..

 

Its called holding your clapper, change the shade,be positive and wait n see what happens!!

Not to pre-order the humble pie…

[fuchsntf]

Without starting a new topic…

A question to all:-

 

# Would you have preferred to squeeze survival and stayed up,with possibilties

    of years of no real change, with either the last 2 management choices remaining.

 

# Taking the hit of relegation,and seeing a total new approach from

      club + management,introduction of new dynamic manager bringing his own

      new ideology & system

 

# or somehow surviving relegation,accepting the new broom,and doing the clearout

    & landing Enzo Maresca, accepting that Players and system

        would still need time.

 

** Would we be more forgiving,if the last mentioned,would mean,staying positive ,

     even if we hovered around the deep lower regions for 1-2 seasons..??

       

 

No matter how we sell to ourselves every  mix n pik of possibilities,it’s all relative.

It is as it is,   and with much all round pleasant suprise,so far working in our club’s future & history’s favour.

Everton are the biggest & best proof,nomatter how long one stave off relegation,it’s difficult to climb out of those built In doldrums..

We are ourselves the proof,that occasionally that hit of relegation,can change the fortunes of a club…In fact the  unique proof..Since MON,over Pearson/Ranieri + Puel and Rodgers,we have collected silverware or held regular a share of high office.

Everton in contrast has won just before MON,the FA.cup,and a few yrs later,were FA.cup runners up…Also played in Europe a couple of times…I believe not anymore than us..

Though they seemed to have longer/regularly finished in PL top 8,more than us..

but without any doubt had more financial clout, & belonged to the revered clique called “big club”… Though lost that attribute during or after Moyes Tenure.

Of regular Bottom half,even relegated clubs..Everton & Leicester are closest comparisons..Leeds,Blackburn,Southampton,Newcastle still fall well short.

Near future Newcastle could blow us away,or just do an Everton & threaten that history..

Edited 14 October 2023 by fuchsntf

[shen]

On 12/10/2023 at 23:51, oz was my hero said:

Haven't read any previous  posts so my honest opinion  is ,  since the title win the club has been resting on its laurels. From the top of the board to the fans it's been an embarrassment.  All were and have been until recently living off the past. We've wasted money on absolute  crap signings.   Musa  and slimani prime examples. Lost our way in player signing principles.  Massive contracts being handed out like we were real Madrid.  It's like the board were working class people that won the euromillions  and thought fuvk it we're  going on a jolly for 5 years. Error after error with the we're  Billy big bollocks attitude .  Players saying we're too good to go down. Fans are guilty  for not screaming for Rogers out at least 12 months previous to him going. So to sum up it was a terrible  relegation. Hopefully  we have now been awakened. 

Without wanting to be condescending, but I find that is a quite poor and unnuanced view you have.

 

Did we mess up the golden opportunity we got from winning the Premier League? To some extent, yes, but it's been made to look we missed an open goal from half a yard out by some (*cough), when in reality it was always going to be deceptively difficult to replicate any success.

Despite some wasted monies on transfers, the club still performed terrifically in the CL in the direct aftermath and arguably established itself as the 'best of the rest' for several seasons running, partly gatecrashing the Big 6 again and again - not to mention the elusive FA Cup.

Could we have done more? Maybe, but I and many others recognise it's a completely different game/business at the top (no pun intended), and we did lack some nous (understandably), which was exacerbated on that fateful tragic day we lost Vichai.

 

For every Slimani, Silva and Musa (who we recouped our outlay for no less), you had a Maguire, Fofana and Maddison, all of whom were sold for big profits. And yet we still kept performing up until 18-24 months ago.

 

I never saw us exude BBB attitude. If anything I feel that your attitude is more a sign of segments of our fanbase being disenfranchised and bewildered by the massive tansformation the club has gone through in many aspects.

 

Now, was last season not an abject failure? It absolutely was, and it's more than fair to scrutinise and criticise the club, staff and players, but making broad, revisionist, sweeping statements that largely ignore the consistent success we've had over the past decade is not helpful or remotely close to reality.

[whoareyaaa]

[oz was my hero]

6 minutes ago, shen said:

Without wanting to be condescending, but I find that is a quite poor and unnuanced view you have.

 

Did we mess up the golden opportunity we got from winning the Premier League? To some extent, yes, but it's been made to look we missed an open goal from half a yard out by some (*cough), when in reality it was always going to be deceptively difficult to replicate any success.

Despite some wasted monies on transfers, the club still performed terrifically in the CL in the direct aftermath and arguably established itself as the 'best of the rest' for several seasons running, partly gatecrashing the Big 6 again and again - not to mention the elusive FA Cup.

Could we have done more? Maybe, but I and many others recognise it's a completely different game/business at the top (no pun intended), and we did lack some nous (understandably), which was exacerbated on that fateful tragic day we lost Vichai.

 

For every Slimani, Silva and Musa (who we recouped our outlay for no less), you had a Maguire, Fofana and Maddison, all of whom were sold for big profits. And yet we still kept performing up until 18-24 months ago.

 

I never saw us exude BBB attitude. If anything I feel that your attitude is more a sign of segments of our fanbase being disenfranchised and bewildered by the massive tansformation the club has gone through in many aspects.

 

Now, was last season not an abject failure? It absolutely was, and it's more than fair to scrutinise and criticise the club, staff and players, but making broad, revisionist, sweeping statements that largely ignore the consistent success we've had over the past decade is not helpful or remotely close to reality.

Have to disagree with you on some points. We won the league with the solid foundations  laid down by pearson and his team. There was a system where the player had to fit both on the pitch system wise and mentally. Also if I remember right we got nothing back for slimani. Lost on musa who was a dreadfull signing. Which happens. But my point is why undo what has been built. Imo it's because the attitude we had made it. As for the bbb attitude., previous to last season it was obvious  to anyone watching that we were in trouble. Yet nothing was done. Why because the board, and the players all thought we were too good. Bbb attitude .we all know what happened next. Now the only time in 40 years of going to the games where I have felt totally disenfranchised  from the club was last season. Because since going in the early 80s it's the only time I've seen absolutely  no fight or reaction to the state we were in and I take that back to our success and thinking we're  too good. Imo we lost our way. Yes the success has been amazing. I never thought I'd see it nor did I think we would self destruct so quickly.  This season I'm loving it as we have a manager with a clear philosophy and players that have bought into it. Hopefully  we have learned a hard lesson as to how to maintain things. 

[Clever Fox]

Our demise was mostly down to circumstances.

I've said this before. The crash was devastating for the Club.

With Vachi at the helm decisions were made quicker. Maybe not always right, but decisive.

We've had 2 years of indecisiveness while the legalities have been worked.

Rogers signing we're mostly rubbish and he sulked like the a child and threw in the Towel.

Thankfully the Board are happy to continue with Vichai 's wishes for now and we're reaping the Benefits. While that continues we will continue to progress. That's all we can hope for as Fans.

Enzo as a Coach is light years ahead of anyone I know off in the game. With the financial support I'm certain he can take us back to the top 6 of the premiership.

I'm enjoying his style, his Man Management and his success.

Long may it continue.

[Gamble92]

3 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

When he returns in an away dugout, does he get booed?

[ousefox]

32 minutes ago, Gamble92 said:

When he returns in an away dugout, does he get booed?

Simultaneously one of our greatest and one of our worst managers. 

 

History will be kind to him, but I will never ever get over the fact he pushed our club back several years. 

 

When we get promoted, we're now starting again, we now have to build a premier league team and we will be at risk of relegation. It should never ever have been this way.

[Gamble92]

27 minutes ago, ousefox said:

Simultaneously one of our greatest and one of our worst managers. 

 

History will be kind to him, but I will never ever get over the fact he pushed our club back several years. 

 

When we get promoted, we're now starting again, we now have to build a premier league team and we will be at risk of relegation. It should never ever have been this way.

Completely agree, but I think if we do bounce back straight away we are fortunately already stronger than most of that bottom half in my opinion. 

 

Everything you say is the case, and we should never be in this position. But we almost have a better head start than any promoted team ever if we go up. 

 

Still find all of it unforgivable and I'd never have believed anyone telling me I'd end up detesting individuals from that FA Cup win.