Tactics Under Maresca

[James_lcfc]

5 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

So was Winks. I think this is part of the disconnect tbh. Fans want to see us put our foot on their throats and we constantly let sides back in it by slowing things down all the time. Need the crowd to basically demand it from the players - they actually responded to the jeers yesterday. If that's what it takes then I'm fine with it.

 

I'm firmly of the opinion that the tactics are holding us back now.

Not sure I fully agree with the last bit.

 

There are definitely times in games when you need to try to 'calm down' and relax with the ball...to kill an opponents momentum for example. 

 

Straight after scoring not long before half time though? Got to be at full tilt here. Especially when you can feel the crowd turn like you could yesterday - The ironic cheers etc before the goal made it feel a bit edgy.

[casablancas]

32 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

In that case, I would like to cite countless occasions our fans have been horrific and lost the game.

Couldn’t agree more. Our away contingent 🧑‍🍳💋 though. 

[davieG]

2 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Not sure I fully agree with the last bit.

 

There are definitely times in games when you need to try to 'calm down' and relax with the ball...to kill an opponents momentum for example. 

 

Straight after scoring not long before half time though? Got to be at full tilt here. Especially when you can feel the crowd turn like you could yesterday - The ironic cheers etc before the goal made it feel a bit edgy.

There must be numerous examples of teams scoring straight after conceding as the opposition are still slapping themselves on the back. So I'd not agree with full tilt be alert and continue to pressure in a controlled manner.

[Nod.E]

There's nothing wrong with fast, sharp play, but I actually felt we over-comitted yesterday. I'd have put good money on a Norwich breakaway goal. Thankfully they didn't make good use of the ball when they had the chance. 

 

At times we were playing a 2-3-5 formation! 

 

KDH and N'didi were pressing high and effectively joining the 3, while we had Doyle and Ricardo getting forward, leaving Faes and Vestergaard alone in our half in transition.

 

It was nice to see some urgency yesterday, but we do need to be mindful of not overdoing it. A good counter attacking outfit would have had a field day yesterday.

 

Maybe it was a risk we felt we could take against Norwich.

[splinterdream]

Absolutely missed a trick yesterday, 15 minutes left to go, vestegaard on a yellow, take him off for Coady, then if a cynical last ditch tackle/foul is required it can be carried out without a red 

[aklaxon]

I thought the crowd reaction at home to Norwich on Monday was what changed the game.

 

I love Enzo-ball, the patient/baiting style. But lately teams have worked out how to play against us. Once we went one nil down to that ridiculous corner, the lads continued to play with their studs on the ball. And I think the fans could sense another 1-0 loss. So the crowd noise started...

 

But it worked.

 

We can still play the controlling/possession game, but play it proactively. "Get stuck in" as some fans like to say.

 

In some ways I don't think the players changed their attitude out of spite of Enzo, I think they changed it out of spite of the crowd.

[Tommy Fresh]

5 hours ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Yep, if we manage to go up we need a massive (and very expensive if Enzo is still here) overhaul in summer. Regarding the Physicality I agree, we have a lot of light weight players who struggled in the premier league to hold off other players, and I think traditionally the Championship has been somewhere that players who are big and strong, but not quite good enough for the premier league or maybe not quite athletic enough have found a home, but in recent years it seems like teams seem to be focusing more and more on the tactical aspect, going for players who are technically sound first and foremost rather than big nasty players. It's the way football seems to be going in general, for example even teams like Milwall who traditionally went for players who would just chuck two feet in to let the opponent know who they are, nowadays they tend to be going for smaller more technical players like Flemming (who I think could easily step up to the premier league at a lower club). 

 

By smaller do you mean height? 

[cityfanlee23]

10 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

By smaller do you mean height? 

I’m not sure about height but I generally meant slimmer or a more smaller frame, more nimble players who are more technically gifted. I could be completely wrong on this it’s just the impression I have of it, I was expecting the championship to be far more physical, but I think premier league players are far more athletic and with that often comes strength. 

Edited 2 April by cityfanlee23

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

I’m not sure about height but I generally meant slimmer or a more smaller frame, more nimble players who are more technically gifted. I could be completely wrong on this it’s just the impression I have of it, I was expecting the championship to be far more physical, but I think premier league players are far more athletic and with that often comes strength. 

I get the point in general it was more regarding Flemming, he's not exactly small

[cityfanlee23]

5 hours ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I get the point in general it was more regarding Flemming, he's not exactly small

Yeah it was probably not the best example 😂

[Lillehamring]

On 02/04/2024 at 12:35, James_lcfc said:

Not sure I fully agree with the last bit.

 

There are definitely times in games when you need to try to 'calm down' and relax with the ball...to kill an opponents momentum for example. 

 

Straight after scoring not long before half time though? Got to be at full tilt here. Especially when you can feel the crowd turn like you could yesterday - The ironic cheers etc before the goal made it feel a bit edgy.

I'm not so sure this is really true - it's a pretty commonly stated opinion that 'you're at your most vulnerable after you've scored', both because it's easier then to lose focus and that the opposition are instantly fired up to respond to having conceded.

 

Going full tilt after scoring seems to be asking for a responding opposition to take advantage of the scoring teams over-confidence.

 

Enzo is generally pragmatic about his approach to the game, it is no surprise to see that after scoring he reinforces this; to me it seems less a case of being complacent and allowing the opposition to get back into the game, and more a standing firm and focused while the opposition get their inevitable response out of their system.  It would be interesting to see how many goals we've conceded within say 5-10 minutes of scoring.

[Lillehamring]

On 02/04/2024 at 15:01, Nod.E said:

There's nothing wrong with fast, sharp play, but I actually felt we over-comitted yesterday. I'd have put good money on a Norwich breakaway goal. Thankfully they didn't make good use of the ball when they had the chance. 

 

At times we were playing a 2-3-5 formation! 

 

KDH and N'didi were pressing high and effectively joining the 3, while we had Doyle and Ricardo getting forward, leaving Faes and Vestergaard alone in our half in transition.

 

It was nice to see some urgency yesterday, but we do need to be mindful of not overdoing it. A good counter attacking outfit would have had a field day yesterday.

 

Maybe it was a risk we felt we could take against Norwich.

Possibly - i can see the risk involved here, but the other way of looking at it is that if norwich were going to hit us on the break it would be from us giving the ball away, the advantage of playing so advanced (and why we were so good when we were good) is that it gives us a much better chance of winning the ball straight back. the reason we've struggled with quick counters in recent games is because we were giving the ball away from deeper in our own half, rather than from that front 5.

[Guest leatherhead32]

its not for everyone but when it works its great to watch and we are in the box seat to win this 2nd division still, i can see why fans get frustrated when its not working  but never  have n never will  get boos moans and leave earlies though lets have it right most on em are guna do them 3 things anyway , so criticising Enzo's tactics is enjoyment for them , it must be confusing for the gaffa and newer squad members when we are beating preston for instance and people leave in droves , must make them think im off if another team come in as this clubs fans are not interested but it is of course just a minority . i like the way we play even tho as an englishman still would like it hoofed now n then plus more shots outside area, still aint guna get on the lads backs during game, counter productive 4me. 

[STUHILL]

Great win today but I really hate this from Enzo - "I told them at half-time to be very patient’ 

 

I have seen him gesturing for calmness and patience from the sidelines too during the game when we desperately need a goal.

 

I think this is why our team often looks so slow and lacking urgency.

 

Got it done late today, but it is definitely a pattern in Enzo’s style and I’d much prefer urgency when we need it and a more ruthless approach from him.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 April by STUHILL

[lcfcsnow]

36 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

I have seen him gesturing for calmness and patience from the sidelines too during the game when we desperately need a goal.

I noticed this around 50 minutes when things started to get marginally exciting and putting Birmingham under pressure, he starts gestering to calm down and at some points had his hands on his head, if were in the opposition half players should be encouraged to express themselves and not be robots trying to create the perfect goal. It was Vestergaard surging forward out of position that created an opening for the last goal - something different.

 

Funny how he never gets this worked up when we're on the verge of losing the ball in our own half.

[Matt]

I took someone to their first football game today, they knew the rules and principles translatable via other sports due to coaching in the past.

 

They got frustrated with some of the ideologies behind how we played, I had to explain it wasn't something exclusive to us, it's very much a issue within the sport and it's very much seen as "the way to play football".

 

They understood the ideas and principles around drawing the opposition out with the keeper but everything else, mistakes made by doing so (mistakes happen, but putting yourself in positions to increase the chances of those mistake, why they kept asking), slow build up, etc, were described as "pure stupidity".

 

Great win nonetheless.

[STUHILL]

18 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

I noticed this around 50 minutes when things started to get marginally exciting and putting Birmingham under pressure, he starts gestering to calm down and at some points had his hands on his head, if were in the opposition half players should be encouraged to express themselves and not be robots trying to create the perfect goal. It was Vestergaard surging forward out of position that created an opening for the last goal - something different.

 

Funny how he never gets this worked up when we're on the verge of losing the ball in our own half.

His attitude to when we lose is too often ‘That’s football’

 

Taking so long to make changes also seems a very much ‘Let’s be patient’ mantra.

 

I think we have competitive players in our squad but this very calm, patient and meh response to losses, has no doubt chipped away at our competitive spirit IMO.

 

I hope he gets us over the line as it has still been a very impressive debut season for him, however, I am seeing some red flags for the long term with Enzo.

[Fear Of The Fox]

I can't really understand why we're approaching every single game the same way. Even a couple of mediocre subs late today made a difference just because we automatically brought more bodies into the box. 

I'm really baffled with this situation. Is Enzo thinking playing against Birmingham, Forest Green, Leeds or Arsenal is exactly the same thing? It would have maybe been the same if we had 11 world class players which ofc isn't the case. 

Why on earth in a possible season defining game like this and level after 70mins we don't fill the box with 2 strikers? I would even go the full way and have Vardy, Iheanacho and Daka all in together. 

Credit where it's due the lads at least showed some fight especially in the last 10mins but the tactical approach was again appalling. 

Enzo or whoever comes in this team isn't beyond the club. Words in a context like "this is my style, deal with it" have no place in this team especially under the circumstances. 

 

[sm1]

 

23 minutes ago, lcfcsnow said:

I noticed this around 50 minutes when things started to get marginally exciting and putting Birmingham under pressure, he starts gestering to calm down and at some points had his hands on his head, if were in the opposition half players should be encouraged to express themselves and not be robots trying to create the perfect goal. It was Vestergaard surging forward out of position that created the last goal - something different.

 

Funny how he never gets this worked up when we're on the verge of losing the ball in our own half.

He was angry with Doyle in the 1st half because he played a long pass and he was gesturing to play short. Slow monotonous play is his thing and that will never change. Hopefully the fact that the subs had a really positive effect will encourage him to use them more.

[Matt]

22 minutes ago, sm1 said:

 

He was angry with Doyle in the 1st half because he played a long pass and he was gesturing to play short. Slow monotonous play is his thing and that will never change. Hopefully the fact that the subs had a really positive effect will encourage him to use them more.

I've not been keen on Doyle over the season but the last 2 games he's come in and i've been impressed, he's made a difference - I know he wasn't on the pitch when we scored the winner today.

 

But that probably says alot between the differences of how I and Maresca see the game.

 

Doyle doesn't even do that that often but he will do it, perfect. Time and place for both, neither should be played intrinsically though.

[Tommy Fresh]

I don't think the calm down stuff is necessarily that bad, how many games under Rodgers could we have done with someone just slowing things down and trying to add a bit of composure. If he's doing it when we're 1-0 down with 5 to play then fair enough, that's a bit odd.

Edited 6 April by Tommy Fresh

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I don't think the calm down stuff is necessarily that bad, how many games under Rodgers could we have done with someone just slowing things down and trying to add a bit of composure. If he's doing it when we're 1-0 down with 5 to play then fair enough, that's a bit odd.

We couldn't go any slower!

 

We'd be going backwards....Infact, we did.

[The Doctor]

3 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I don't think the calm down stuff is necessarily that bad, how many games under Rodgers could we have done with someone just slowing things down and trying to add a bit of composure. If he's doing it when we're 1-0 down with 5 to play then fair enough, that's a bit odd.

Yep. The calm down stuff isn't "don't attack, we don't need a goal", it's "keep composed and make sure we don't lose it on the transition because we've overcommitted"

[UniFox21]

Really wish we'd improve our set pieces; we're ridiculously wasteful with them 

[slymunn]

42 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Really wish we'd improve our set pieces; we're ridiculously wasteful with them 

He wanted too, by signing Sensi in January.