Tactics Under Maresca

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Shouldn’t the thread title be changed from tactics to simply TACTIC?

Trying to fast track the “occasional maths” threads move to “occasional mathematics” thread before we get to that trivia 

[Tom12345]

20 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

What I found particularly baffling yesterday was not taking advantage of winning the ball on the high press. 

 

Hamza would be really aggressive and push up, often resulting in winning the ball high up the pitch. But instead of going for the jugular whilst they're out of position, we'd just keep the ball and build up play slowly. 

 

Made zero sense at all to me as high pressure is high risk, high reward, but we just completely ignored the reward.

It is because Hamza is not that good and Marseca has overtrained them. This is the most frustrating part. We now play high risk but no reward football. 

[Tom12345]

8 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Hamza was one of our better players yesterday. I watched a lot of Hamza when he was in the development Team where he played in a more advanced midfield role.

He was excellent at hunting down the Ball and winning it back. Yet no manager seems to have learned that about him. He's also got better in possession of the Ball.

I'd like to see him play in the 8 role doing exactly that, Winning the Ball high up the pitch and starting attacks from there. Instead of inviting the opposition on to our box.

Where once again it broke down again on Friday.

It doesn’t matter. Hamza will pass the ball back 20 yards after winning the ball up top.  He is really keen to make sure we play fairly and wait for the opposition to well and truly settle into their formation before we start our attack. 

[Tom12345]

8 hours ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

Not sure about your view of one of our best on Friday, but I think you're on to something when you say get him winning the ball higher up the pitch. He has the energy and drive and his main fault, attention lapses, aren't as costly there.

His main fault is he is afraid of holding on the ball for too long and would panic and make a back pass whenever possible.

[Clever Fox]

22 minutes ago, Tom12345 said:

His main fault is he is afraid of holding on the ball for too long and would panic and make a back pass whenever possible.

He's actually better at shielding the Ball than Winks for instance. I also think he can be encouraged to pass forward more while gaining more confidence.

 

I watched the second half of Man city v Arsenal today. City play exactly like us.

 

The only difference is they get a lot more players forward than we do and if it breaks down they give a foul away.

Something we rarely do.

[Bazly]

Its a simple tactic, try to bore everyone to death. The paying punters, the opposition, the team, the officials and when everyone is nodding off hope the opponents don't notice the occasional pass forward.

[Daggers]

You don’t need a Plan B when Plan A is working so well…

 

 

[StonyFox]

I'd love us to turn up tomorrow and not play the inverted full back, and instead use the fullbacks to overlap the wingers. 

 

When you have wingers that like to come inside, it leaves the space they have vacated out wide, perfect for an overlapping fullback. With our tactics they come inside but we also attempt to play under lapping 8s, so the middle of the pitch gets congested and we run out of ideas. I don't think the wingers style of play suits the overall tactical plan, as maresca wants the wingers to stretch the play. 

 

We've either got to have Ricardo and JJ overlapping when Fatawu or macvidid cut inside, or maybe try swapping the wingers occasionally and ask them to go on the outside of the fullback to actually stretch the opposition and create space for the 8s. 

 

We've become so easy to defend against as our wingers are isolated and the middle is just too congested to play through when they come inside. 

 

Also, he needs to bring Coady in!

 

[Guppys Love Child]

1 hour ago, StonyFox said:

I'd love us to turn up tomorrow and not play the inverted full back, and instead use the fullbacks to overlap the wingers. 

 

When you have wingers that like to come inside, it leaves the space they have vacated out wide, perfect for an overlapping fullback. With our tactics they come inside but we also attempt to play under lapping 8s, so the middle of the pitch gets congested and we run out of ideas. I don't think the wingers style of play suits the overall tactical plan, as maresca wants the wingers to stretch the play. 

 

We've either got to have Ricardo and JJ overlapping when Fatawu or macvidid cut inside, or maybe try swapping the wingers occasionally and ask them to go on the outside of the fullback to actually stretch the opposition and create space for the 8s. 

 

We've become so easy to defend against as our wingers are isolated and the middle is just too congested to play through when they come inside. 

 

Also, he needs to bring Coady in!

 

How dare you suggest something remotely sensible that deviates from our identity of EnzoBall...

 

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself for even suggesting we try something different because our current playing style has been 'sussed out' and the fact it would possibly suit the players you have mentioned a whole lot better, and our opposition wouldn't be expecting us to play anything other then EnzoBall.....it's scandalous

[Gamble92]

1 hour ago, StonyFox said:

I'd love us to turn up tomorrow and not play the inverted full back, and instead use the fullbacks to overlap the wingers. 

 

When you have wingers that like to come inside, it leaves the space they have vacated out wide, perfect for an overlapping fullback. With our tactics they come inside but we also attempt to play under lapping 8s, so the middle of the pitch gets congested and we run out of ideas. I don't think the wingers style of play suits the overall tactical plan, as maresca wants the wingers to stretch the play. 

 

We've either got to have Ricardo and JJ overlapping when Fatawu or macvidid cut inside, or maybe try swapping the wingers occasionally and ask them to go on the outside of the fullback to actually stretch the opposition and create space for the 8s. 

 

We've become so easy to defend against as our wingers are isolated and the middle is just too congested to play through when they come inside. 

 

Also, he needs to bring Coady in!

 

I feel like I've been almost gaslighted into thinking I don't know "modern football" by anyone I suggested to that it was outright ridiculous and financial madness to abandon every wing back at the club in the summer. How dare I suggest that you could switch to using wing backs (a role that's been used for probably a hundred years). That's not how the games played under Enzo. 

 

Even I couldn't have imagined they'd be absolutely no other plan for when things don't work though. It's infuriating.

[StriderHiryu]

21 hours ago, ozleicester said:

has @StriderHiryu stopped posting... i didnt understandmost of his amazing breakdowns of our games, but they on occasion made me feel we werent as bad as we (in my eyes) looked.

It's got quite toxic on here and I find it not that healthy mentally to look at the forum during such periods.

 

In general my biggest observation is that we are struggling to exert control over games and getting disrupted from getting a rhythm going by being pressed ourselves. If our back 5 have a good game, then we have a platform to build upon, but the number of goals we've let in over the last 2 months means that platform isn't steady.

 

Should Enzo change his tactics? I've always said that a classic 433 with our quality players would probably blow away 95% of teams in the division. In too many games after we go behind you can't see us scoring enough goals to get back into or win games. If you look at our rivals, they have had games that ended 4-4, 3-3, 5-3, etc.

The Championship is one of the most chaotic leagues out there, sometimes you just need to win by whatever means possible. I think if we were less cautious and more direct against many teams we might concede goals but would probably win many games 3-1, 4-2, etc.

So if it was me I would keep the starting tactics but be prepared to change things when needed.

 

 

 

Edited 1 April by StriderHiryu

[Guppys Love Child]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

It's got quite toxic on here and I find in not that healthy mentally to look at the forum during such periods.

 

In general my biggest observation is that we are struggling to exert control over games and getting disrupted from getting a rhythm going by being pressed ourselves. If our back 5 have a good game, then we have a platform to build upon, but the number of goals we've let in over the last 2 months means that platform isn't steady.

 

Should Enzo change his tactics? I've always said that a class 433 with our quality players would probably blow away 95% of teams in the division. In too many games after we go behind you can't see us scoring enough goals to get back into or win games. If you look at our rivals, they have had games that ended 4-4, 3-3, 5-3, etc.

The Championship is one of the most chaotic leagues out there, sometimes you just need to win by whatever means possible. I think if we were less cautious and more direct against many teams we might concede goals but would probably win many games 3-1, 4-2, etc.

So if it was me I would keep the starting tactics but be prepared to change things when needed.

It's a shame Enzo doesn't see it the same as you my friend.

 

He'll start the same tactics, but has zero intention of being prepared to change them at any point. 

 

The same EnzoBall we've had from day one or nothing. 

 

10 mins to go... Lets pass the hell out of it, sitting on our 18 yard box, inviting unneeded pressure, being patient and methodical "looking for solutions" with slow build up play. All whilst being 1 nil down.

 

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, Guppys Love Child said:

It's a shame Enzo doesn't see it the same as you my friend.

 

He'll start the same tactics, but has zero intention of being prepared to change them at any point. 

 

The same EnzoBall we've had from day one or nothing. 

 

10 mins to go... Lets pass the hell out of it, sitting on our 18 yard box, inviting unneeded pressure, being patient and methodical "looking for solutions" with slow build up play. All whilst being 1 nil down.

 

Yep agreed, we've all seen how it plays out.

 

There is something to be said for drilling a plan till you get so good at it that it becomes second nature. But this is a huge season for the club, if we don't get promoted we are going to be in HUGE trouble. Will probably start next season with a points deduction and a transfer embargo, and probably have to sell KDH and others. There is a reason why our opponents today, Stoke, Watford, etc all got marooned in this division. It's because the parachute payments run out.

 

At the end of the day let's judge him at the end of the season, but if he ends up bottling a 17 point lead with the most expensive team in Championship history, that's not a good look, and could be disastrous for the club.

[cityfanlee23]

It's amazing how much better we are when we ignore the managers calls to slow the game down 
Dominant, credit to Enzo for only seemingly telling us to calm down early on, since we scored we have been far more aggressive and direct and we've been unplayable for Norwich. Could have been 5-6 today. And we were EXCITING. Do this for the rest of the season and I might believe properly again. 

[foxes_rule1978]

like I said he lacks experience and I was wondering if he can overcome a bad run, today is certainly a good start. The players looked fired up and even more so when we went a goal down, much better mentality from all today. 

[st albans fox]

34 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

It's amazing how much better we are when we ignore the managers calls to slow the game down 
Dominant, credit to Enzo for only seemingly telling us to calm down early on, since we scored we have been far more aggressive and direct and we've been unplayable for Norwich. Could have been 5-6 today. And we were EXCITING. Do this for the rest of the season and I might believe properly again. 

We slowed the game down a lot in the second half 

 

plenty of opportunities to go forward on a break and we decided to turn back and  rather keep the game compact and move it all into the final third 

 

 

[Clever Fox]

4 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

like I said he lacks experience and I was wondering if he can overcome a bad run, today is certainly a good start. The players looked fired up and even more so when we went a goal down, much better mentality from all today. 

I think with Enzo given that he's working with someone else's players it's about honing the system until it's 2nd nature with the players.

 

We played with a much better Tempo today especially first half,  But you can only play what's in front of you and we made Norwich look poor today.

 

I'm delighted for him and the players as it's never easy at this stage of the season but wins breed confidence and hopefully it inspires the players to go and get the job done. 

[South Shire Fox]

Game management was much better today like actually using his subs. Conceded far too many late goals recently through leaving knackered players on

[cityfanlee23]

15 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

I think with Enzo given that he's working with someone else's players it's about honing the system until it's 2nd nature with the players.

 

We played with a much better Tempo today especially first half,  But you can only play what's in front of you and we made Norwich look poor today.

 

I'm delighted for him and the players as it's never easy at this stage of the season but wins breed confidence and hopefully it inspires the players to go and get the job done. 

But most of those players will be gone as they are out of contract or simply not good enough. 
so why are we so hell bent on a system when if he stays until next season will have to be completely restarted next year.

[dr.o.ball]

4 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

But most of those players will be gone as they are out of contract or simply not good enough. 
so why are we so hell bent on a system when if he stays until next season will have to be completely restarted next year.

Because this system is Enzo, its what he'll live and die by regardless of the players at his disposal. LCFC have to decide if it's what we want long term.

[cityfanlee23]

Just now, dr.o.ball said:

Because this system is Enzo, its what he'll live and die by regardless of the players at his disposal. LCFC have to decide if it's what we want long term.

I fear we won’t have a choice if we don’t go up. There’s no way I trust him with a full squad of run of the mill championship players when we have to get rid of everyone this summer. 

[StanSP]

24 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Game management was much better today like actually using his subs. Conceded far too many late goals recently through leaving knackered players on

Yep, agreed. 

 

Happy with majority of the tactics and game management today. 

[Clever Fox]

You could well be right. But that's the system employed for this season and while some performances have been questionable it's worked pretty well all season as we're back on top.

 

With a chance to sign some of his own players I expect to see a big improvement in that system as we continue to push for perfection.

 

The players may well change but the system won't, Not if Enzo is still here.

[Paninistickers]

5 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Yep, agreed. 

 

Happy with majority of the tactics and game management today. 

Subs were all correct but each introduction was 5 mins too late imo. 

 

 

[Nod.E]

Do not underestimate the upgrade that is Doyle at left back vs Justin. Likewise Ricky vs. Hamza the other side, but the left side was particularly noticable today.

 

It's the difference between Fatawu receiving it deep in their half after a fantastic cross field ball vs. running back towards our own goal after Justin has spooned another attempted pass.

 

Doesn't half take the pressure off our central midfielders to have to dictate all the play as well.