Tactics Under Maresca

[Lillehamring]

On 19/03/2024 at 11:19, filbertway said:

If we don't go up I do hope Enzo sticks around.

 

Given that he's been such a genius getting this rag tag bunch of non league players supplemented with around 40 million pounds worth of signings, to the top of the league.

 

Next season when we have no money and have to sell our best assets to cut down on expenditure and also pay back Macqarie, there's no better manager to have us back challenging for a league title

Pretty sure it was explained that this is where the parachute money will go, thus why we're still right on the edge (or just beyond) our spending limit.

[Lambert09]

imo the main reason for our drop off this month has been an over reliance on the wingers. Simply put, they’ve not really been at it and our whole game plan seems to go stale without their magic.  I know it’s not going to happen but could we not play the same style but in this shape: 

 

                        Hermansen

 Ricardo.   Faes/ coady. vesty.    justin/doyle

                     winks (holding)     kdh

 fatawu.           yunus/ nacho.         mavi

                     vardy/daka/cannon

 

 

I just think having one more attacker/ creator in the middle would give something else for the opposition to think about. 

 

Ricardo could still invert and that would allow kdh to continue to roam into the oppositions box. 

 

Surely a style or philosophy doesn’t require an exact formation 

Edited 20 March by Lambert09

[lcfc sheff]

13 hours ago, Lambert09 said:

imo the main reason for our drop off this month has been an over reliance on the wingers. Simply put, they’ve not really been at it and our whole game plan seems to go stale without their magic.  I know it’s not going to happen but could we not play the same style but in this shape: 

 

                        Hermansen

 Ricardo.   Faes/ coady. vesty.    justin/doyle

                     winks (holding)     kdh

 fatawu.           yunus/ nacho.         mavi

                     vardy/daka/cannon

 

 

I just think having one more attacker/ creator in the middle would give something else for the opposition to think about. 

 

Ricardo could still invert and that would allow kdh to continue to roam into the oppositions box. 

 

Surely a style or philosophy doesn’t require an exact formation 

I think it really doesn’t help the wingers when they haven’t got an obvious target in the box. An on running midfielder with some height or a striker with some weight behind him. But I agree with your idea as well.

[BertFill]

19 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

An on running midfielder with some height

That'll be one of the reasons Maresca wanted Casadei then.

[Chrysalis]

On 08/03/2024 at 08:47, davieG said:

As I see it

 

Enzo has a 3 year plan to develop us into his style of play which many top teams seem to be doing in their own way and fans are getting impatient, concerned and frustrated over a few negative results

 

Pearson on the other hand who likes to build a team over a period of time with the right players often losing many games as he tries to perfect it  is renowned and praised by so many LCFC fans.

 

Incidentally our recent negative results have coincided with the absence of at least 1 more of our 3 best players for this system, Ricardo, Vestergaard and Ndidi. Ndidi and Casadei's absence has had a big impact on our ability to attack and defend down the middle whist causing a level of fatigue due to few options to rotate.

 

I think that is a very simplistic way of looking at it, and ignores a few important things.

 

1 = Enzo's style of football, needs financial backing, only a small set of players are capable of playing it successfully, for this reason it was an odd appointment, he is not the type of manager a broke club would be employing.  I dont blame Enzo for this, its an issue with the club management, 

2 - I doubt Enzo will be given three years to experiment and get things to work, there is the financial reality facing the club, and the fact that our competitiveness will drop rapidly season by season during the parachute years and the end of it.  He is going to have a much harder time getting it to work with a weaker squad.

3 - Enzo started on fire in terms of results, which rightly or wrongly raised expectations, me as an example I like to see momentum and progression from a manager, so if we started poorly and then improved to be in the position we in now, I would be fairly happy, but its gone the opposite way instead.  WE also could clearly see his intentions and plans in the early games of the season, it felt organised.  Now that feeling has gone, a friend told me after our last game he thinks we just look like an average championship team now, earlier in the season the same friend kept telling me we looked another level compared to the opposition, he was one of Enzo's biggest fans.

4 - The wage budget of this squad compared to teams Pearson managed is on another level, Pearson didnt manage us as a relegated parachute club (at least not in the championship) but instead as an upcoming club, his league one venture I dont remember ever thinking we were lacking conviction in games.  We did have a kind of implode season under Pearson, I think the one before we got promoted to the EPL, but by then Pearson had enough in the bank with his previous record with us, and so was given the time.

5 - I do think if we get promoted and Enzo tries to continue this brand of football, we will get absolutely slaughtered in the EPL, I dont remember thinking that about Pearson's brand of football.  Kompany with Burnley are suffering as he has been stubborn, Watford fans praised a previous manager who they thought was godly after he got them promoted with a EPL squad, but then realised it was a false dawn when actually up against quality opposition the following season.

 

So if we fail to go up this year, he has kind of made the bed for the criticism due to the lightning start and the 17 point lead we had built up.  I have never been convinced by the football except for a few games, but I was letting it slide mostly because of the results.  We definitely looked better in the first part of the season compared to the most recent Rodgers seasons but we also have to remember we are an EPL squad who are most weeks playing against championship squads.  Now teams no longer fear us, we look far less convincing, and are struggling to get wins.  No matter how fancy the football may be, one thing is always king in football, and that is the results.  The best way Enzo can get people onboard with his ideas now is to win games, and get us promoted, even if through the playoffs.  I think any rational fan at this point will see a failure to get promotion as a failed season, given how the season has gone and our squad.

Edited 21 March by Chrysalis

[Ian Nacho]

What I found particularly baffling yesterday was not taking advantage of winning the ball on the high press. 

 

Hamza would be really aggressive and push up, often resulting in winning the ball high up the pitch. But instead of going for the jugular whilst they're out of position, we'd just keep the ball and build up play slowly. 

 

Made zero sense at all to me as high pressure is high risk, high reward, but we just completely ignored the reward.

[Ashley]

The football we play needs to be quicker. 

 

We've created some brilliant chances in recent games and we've not put them to bed. 

 

Vardy had 4 chances of his own on Friday. Had any of them gone in, the meltdown wouldn't be happening on here. We'd have won the game comfortably. 

 

One thing we do need to do more of though is shooting from the edge of the box.

[Clever Fox]

On 21/03/2024 at 08:26, lcfc sheff said:

I think it really doesn’t help the wingers when they haven’t got an obvious target in the box. An on running midfielder with some height or a striker with some weight behind him. But I agree with your idea as well.

Finally someone who understands the game and the lack of an outlet and support for Wingers. We're too lightweight and slow both in Defence and midfield.

We've never replaced Ulloa  since he left which cost us European football not once but twice.

You've got to build the Chassis of the team first and get it right. We've played with no front end or target point for too long. These type of players are what win matches in tight games.

Look at Woods goal yesterday, A goal scored out of nothing. 

[Dahnsouff]

5 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Finally someone who understands the game and the lack of an outlet and support for Wingers. We're too lightweight and slow both in Defence and midfield.

We've never replaced Ulloa  since he left which cost us European football not once but twice.

You've got to build the Chassis of the team first and get it right. We've played with no front end or target point for too long. These type of players are what win matches in tight games.

Look at Woods goal yesterday, A goal scored out of nothing. 

Think Enzo wants to replace the need for height with the use of cut backs, which we did for a bit and then stopped weirdly and I am  not condoning this approach but this was my belief in what he wanted as a trainee Pep.

[Clever Fox]

12 hours ago, Ian Nacho said:

What I found particularly baffling yesterday was not taking advantage of winning the ball on the high press. 

 

Hamza would be really aggressive and push up, often resulting in winning the ball high up the pitch. But instead of going for the jugular whilst they're out of position, we'd just keep the ball and build up play slowly. 

 

Made zero sense at all to me as high pressure is high risk, high reward, but we just completely ignored the reward.

Hamza was one of our better players yesterday. I watched a lot of Hamza when he was in the development Team where he played in a more advanced midfield role.

He was excellent at hunting down the Ball and winning it back. Yet no manager seems to have learned that about him. He's also got better in possession of the Ball.

I'd like to see him play in the 8 role doing exactly that, Winning the Ball high up the pitch and starting attacks from there. Instead of inviting the opposition on to our box.

Where once again it broke down again on Friday.

[Clever Fox]

14 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Think Enzo wants to replace the need for height with the use of cut backs, which we did for a bit and then stopped weirdly and I am  not condoning this approach but this was my belief in what he wanted as a trainee Pep.

I'm not sure though I think it might be more to do with the lack of Money and our failure to be able to sign players.

I'd really like to see Enzo have a window where he can sign a few players of his own choosing.

[CrazyKopCorner]

                    Madds 

Ricardo    Faes  Vesty Justin

                     Winks 

 Fatawu.   Wilf      KDH    Mavi (I'd play Cannon here but he's injured) 

                   Vardy 

[Trav Le Bleu]

21 minutes ago, Clever Fox said:

Hamza was one of our better players yesterday. I watched a lot of Hamza when he was in the development Team where he played in a more advanced midfield role.

He was excellent at hunting down the Ball and winning it back. Yet no manager seems to have learned that about him. He's also got better in possession of the Ball.

I'd like to see him play in the 8 role doing exactly that, Winning the Ball high up the pitch and starting attacks from there. Instead of inviting the opposition on to our box.

Where once again it broke down again on Friday.

Not sure about your view of one of our best on Friday, but I think you're on to something when you say get him winning the ball higher up the pitch. He has the energy and drive and his main fault, attention lapses, aren't as costly there.

[Kinowe Soorie]

We hardly score from corners. Seems basic and a waste.

[sylofox]

On 20/03/2024 at 18:33, Lambert09 said:

imo the main reason for our drop off this month has been an over reliance on the wingers. Simply put, they’ve not really been at it and our whole game plan seems to go stale without their magic.  I know it’s not going to happen but could we not play the same style but in this shape: 

 

                        Hermansen

 Ricardo.   Faes/ coady. vesty.    justin/doyle

                     winks (holding)     kdh

 fatawu.           yunus/ nacho.         mavi

                     vardy/daka/cannon

 

 

I just think having one more attacker/ creator in the middle would give something else for the opposition to think about. 

 

Ricardo could still invert and that would allow kdh to continue to roam into the oppositions box. 

 

Surely a style or philosophy doesn’t require an exact formation 

No point In us playing wingers. We break to slow and they end up with no space.

 

The two lines of four are set up by the opposition before we get the ball out of our own box.

 

Exactly the same as Rodgers ball. To slow and we never up the pace. So very predictable and boring to watch but Enzo won't change.

 

Lots of us seen this before the Stoke game. But Enzo went baby like and said he would walk. Shame he didn't as he's done nothing to fix or alter our system that's broken.

[Flappit]

1 hour ago, sylofox said:

No point In us playing wingers. We break to slow and they end up with no space.

 

The two lines of four are set up by the opposition before we get the ball out of our own box.

 

Exactly the same as Rodgers ball. To slow and we never up the pace. So very predictable and boring to watch but Enzo won't change.

 

Lots of us seen this before the Stoke game. But Enzo went baby like and said he would walk. Shame he didn't as he's done nothing to fix or alter our system that's broken.

I don't think this is the case though. Most of the Bristol game, Fatawu wasn't running into the space down the line, so the sideways passing resulted in him receiving the ball 10 yards over the halfway line, but often static,. 

 

This allowed the fullback to do a dual block on both Fatawu and Choudhury/Ricardo/Wilf by taking up a conservative position at 45 degrees and a few yards from both. 

 

If Fatawu had pushed for that space, the fullback would have had to commit to a man, which would have left space for a midfielder in between the fullback and central defender. As it was, Fatawu was no threat at all and even if he had the ball, was starting from a standing position and the defender could close him down. 

 

Where he had success earlier in the season was when he pulled defender wide to create indecision and space, which resulted in gaps to be exploited for passing. By being passive and not pulling the defender wide, it makes it trivial to cut out the through balls we thrived on. 

 

It's absolutely not rocket science and Albrighton is still effective at it by shifting the ball quickly and wrapping his foot around the cross, so the defender has to go tight to try to cut it off. He doesn't need to fully beat the defender, just provide the threat of the cross. 

 

Fatawu and Mavididi are both playing scared keep-ball as they are probably lambasted by Maresca if they don't cut back and recycle possession endlessly. It stifles their instinct and desire to go at players and it makes us run out of space. 

 

Go back to pulling the defenders out wide, commit to runs, and see the space open up in the channels again, you nobheads. 

Edited 31 March by Flappit

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Kinowe Soorie said:

We hardly score from corners. Seems basic and a waste.

I saw an item that pointed out that very few teams scored from corners regularly now and it was something to do with a rules and how teams can now defend corners much better. It seemed to make sense to me.

[notnow john]

19 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I saw an item that pointed out that very few teams scored from corners regularly now and it was something to do with a rules and how teams can now defend corners much better. It seemed to make sense to me.

Teams can defend corners better because defenders are allowed to block and grapple with impunity.

You see the smallest defender marking a player who is dangerous in the air by just grabbing and holding .

If they started awarding penalties for fouls in the area this garbage would soon stop.

 

[Bourbon Fox]

2 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Finally someone who understands the game and the lack of an outlet and support for Wingers. We're too lightweight and slow both in Defence and midfield.

We've never replaced Ulloa  since he left which cost us European football not once but twice.

You've got to build the Chassis of the team first and get it right. We've played with no front end or target point for too long. These type of players are what win matches in tight games.

Look at Woods goal yesterday, A goal scored out of nothing. 

Cannon?

[Bourbon Fox]

7 minutes ago, notnow john said:

Teams can defend corners better because defenders are allowed to block and grapple with impunity.

You see the smallest defender marking a player who is dangerous in the air by just grabbing and holding .

If they started awarding penalties for fouls in the area this garbage would soon stop.

 

And Wout would be suspended constantly.

 

Edit: after a second's thought I'm all for it

Edited 31 March by Bourbon Fox

[Clever Fox]

4 minutes ago, Bourbon Fox said:

Cannon?

He's only a young lad starting out and he seems more of the modern style of attacker. He's more for next season and beyond if he makes the grade.

 

I think what we need is a Howard type, all knees and Elbows. with the height to win headers close to goal.

[ozleicester]

has @StriderHiryu stopped posting... i didnt understandmost of his amazing breakdowns of our games, but they on occasion made me feel we werent as bad as we (in my eyes) looked.

[Bourbon Fox]

56 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

has @StriderHiryu stopped posting... i didnt understandmost of his amazing breakdowns of our games, but they on occasion made me feel we werent as bad as we (in my eyes) looked.

I think he might have gouged his own eyes out

[Holly B]

 

[ARM1968]

Shouldn’t the thread title be changed from tactics to simply TACTIC?