Tactics Under Maresca

[StriderHiryu]

@Tom12345 the Spurs versus Man City games this season will be very interesting to watch. Under Mourinho, Conte and Nuno they played counter attack agains them and have an incredible record against Man City doing this. Ange definitely won't play that way, so will they be able to take the game to Man City or will they get taken to the cleaners?

 

Spurs versus Brighton will also be interesting for similar reasons. 

[StriderHiryu]

 

Kasey says: "we knew they would attack with 6, the full backs really high, so I would have to drop in to make a back 5".

 

Some Notes from both halves.

 

 

 

 

First Half:

 

• Norwich had a go, they pushed their full backs right up, and didn't sit back.
• Faes was chasing Barnes quite high up the pitch. He's in the team to deal with him as he's a physical player. Called this one earlier.
• For Norwich, Liam Gibbs (8) starts in midfield, but a lot of the time was further up, it looked like he was trying to target Hamza Choudhury (17) to rob the ball from it, but Hamza was too good.
• Hamza came in and playing close attention to Jonathan Rowe, who has been one of the best players in the division so far. Hamza has been superb! Both on and off the ball, and has dealt with Rowe very well.
• In general it looked like Norwich tried to face up man to man against us. Neil Warnock earlier in the season started this trend!
• Right and Left footed 8's are playing on different sides than I would expect, which must be intentional. I think it's because we are exploiting the slow pace of their CBs, so Nacho draws them out, and they run in behind and can cut in on their stronger foot via bending their runs. We have almost pulled it off a few times.
• Yunus I was impressed with in the first half. Great football brain and first touch. We brought him as a winger, but is he the Turkish Championship version of Bernardo? You heard it here first.
• Casadei a bit off it. Not horrible, but expected a bit better, the move has broken down the most going to him, or he's given fouls away.
• Kasey McAteer I love, love, love! He's everywhere! First touch has let him down a bit, but he's making his chances and terrifying their fullback.
• Mavididi started off slow, but looked a class above by the end of the half.
• Mads Hermansen is a seriously good keeper. His distribution is so good. Some of his kicks to Nacho are so effective.
• Even before the goal I felt we were playing well. Maybe 10% worse than against Southampton, but only because of the number of changes.

 

Second Half:

 

• Hamza did so well, they replaced Rowe.
  • The replacement Placheta was more direct and caused trouble
• Our playing out from the back was very good. Mads and Hamza were really good at doing this especially.
• Mads superb before giveaway that led to them hitting the crossbar. Got a bit flustered afterwards but still I think he’s class
• I think KDH / Wilf were brought on because we lost control of the game in the second half.
  • Ndidi pressed high straight away, which was missing
  • But we didn't maintain it, and I felt like we dropped off a bit compared to the Southampton game.
  • KDH was superb. On the transition he was top class, our back to front play was incredible, mainly because of him.
• The turning point of the game: Norwich go 442 at 67 mins
  • 442 made the game chaotic. We made chances but lost control. It was a bit too end to end. Norwich gambling on winning the second ball. I felt we could have scored quite a few goals in the second half, but equally had Norwich scored we couldn't say it wasn't coming.
• At 2-0 it was game over, we had total control.

 

Overall:

• I've been quite impressed by Norwich. Their change of shape, their playing out from the back, their use of Sara. Given the resources available to both teams, they play good stuff and structurally are the best team we've played against so far.
• Maresca chose more physical players for this game, and it's worked. We have dealt with their muscle and in fact riled THEM up.
• The biggest difference between the two teams? The speed of passing. Norwich were too slow passing, with Leicester it’s fast. When we decide to move up the pitch it goes back-to-front often inside 10 seconds. It cuts teams wide open.
• Harry Winks is a brilliant player. He runs the game! Our best player so far this season, followed by Kasey McAteer.

 

 

 

 

Edited 20 September 2023 by StriderHiryu

[StriderHiryu]

 

Some further thoughts here!

 

 

[SecretPro]

@StriderHiryu I've got a £30 Amazon voucher knocking about - can I have some recommendations on football tactic books please? Already have Inverting the Pyramid in my basket but gather its more of a 'history' than a discussion of implementation.

[StriderHiryu]

32 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

@StriderHiryu I've got a £30 Amazon voucher knocking about - can I have some recommendations on football tactic books please? Already have Inverting the Pyramid in my basket but gather its more of a 'history' than a discussion of implementation.

That's a great question! To be honest, I could ask the same back at you!

 

This one is a good read:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zonal-Marking-Michael-Cox/dp/0008291160

 

Do you want to know more about the tactics themselves specifically, or how to analyse the games? Or both? For the more traditional tactics I don't think books are that useful, there are tons of videos out there that explain tactics in a lot of great detail, including on and off the ball. In my opinion, the tougher / better skill is the ability to analyse and identify the strengths, weaknesses, systems, etc. Personally, when I challenged myself to understand what was going on off the ball in games, I fell in love with football even more. It was like advancing from Checkers / Draughts to Chess. You have to be way more aware of things, and sometimes you see and appreciate things way in advance of when they happen. For example, even though they lost, Erik Ten Hag's use of the Diamond against Brighton was very clever at the weekend. Why? Because when you think about it, it's going to directly challenge the Box shape Brighton try to form and you can press that box with 3 instead of 4, and pose an attacking threat.

 

I'm a huge fan of this guy, who made this channel during Covid to keep him busy:

 

 

Here he explains his own story, which is really impressive.

 

I've seen him recently that he has an offer here:

https://xvalue.ai/stats?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=videoFT&utm_campaign=FTParnership

 

If you sign up you get a free handbook, and then you could cancel afterwards. So that could be worth it. I haven't done it myself yet, but I am considering it.

 

In case you are wondering, getting into football is something I have strongly considered. The problem is I am a bit old now and already have a ton on my plate. But I love football and find it enjoyable, so for me writing this stuff up is like going to the gym. It's my exercise and keeps me mentally sharp. Also, I learn a lot myself, and my favourite posts are when other people point out things that I missed. IMO the best way to learn is to do exactly that! Try taking some notes during the next match, then post them here and compare and discuss. No book is going to be as good as going that!

 

 

 

Edited 20 September 2023 by StriderHiryu

[SecretPro]

51 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

That's a great question! To be honest, I could ask the same back at you!

 

This one is a good read:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zonal-Marking-Michael-Cox/dp/0008291160

 

Do you want to know more about the tactics themselves specifically, or how to analyse the games? Or both? For the more traditional tactics I don't think books are that useful, there are tons of videos out there that explain tactics in a lot of great detail, including on and off the ball. In my opinion, the tougher / better skill is the ability to analyse and identify the strengths, weaknesses, systems, etc. Personally, when I challenged myself to understand what was going on off the ball in games, I fell in love with football even more. It was like advancing from Checkers / Draughts to Chess. You have to be way more aware of things, and sometimes you see and appreciate things way in advance of when they happen. For example, even though they lost, Erik Ten Hag's use of the Diamond against Brighton was very clever at the weekend. Why? Because when you think about it, it's going to directly challenge the Box shape Brighton try to form and you can press that box with 3 instead of 4, and pose an attacking threat.

 

I'm a huge fan of this guy, who made this channel during Covid to keep him busy:

 

 

Here he explains his own story, which is really impressive.

 

I've seen him recently that he has an offer here:

https://xvalue.ai/stats?utm_source=YouTube&utm_medium=videoFT&utm_campaign=FTParnership

 

If you sign up you get a free handbook, and then you could cancel afterwards. So that could be worth it. I haven't done it myself yet, but I am considering it.

 

In case you are wondering, getting into football is something I have strongly considered. The problem is I am a bit old now and already have a ton on my plate. But I love football and find it enjoyable, so for me writing this stuff up is like going to the gym. It's my exercise and keeps me mentally sharp. Also, I learn a lot myself, and my favourite posts are when other people point out things that I missed. IMO the best way to learn is to do exactly that! Try taking some notes during the next match, then post them here and compare and discuss. No book is going to be as good as going that!

 

 

 

Thank you! 

 

Yes, I guess it's really analysis that I'm interested in. 

 

Since Maresca has come in and with the emphasis being on 'the school of Pep' I've been paying much closer attention to the way we play and employ tactics and can hand on heart say its improve my viewing experience in a way I never thought it would. 

 

I've always watched Leicester but haven't really ever bothered watching other football unless it's a particularly big game or a cup final etc and this year I've got a dodgy firestick and found myself watching a lot more football, domestic and foreign and getting involved in trying to analyse the games and see how teams are setting up, how they are playing, how other leagues/countries styles differ from ours.

 

It's just I'm a relative newbie and I whilst I can see what is a good tactic to implement what I sometimes struggle with is understanding how to counter those tactics... like the inverted fullback or 3 2 4 1 Is having a moment but then I struggle to see what tactic perfectly counters that etc. 

 

I know there's a lot of blogs etc out there too that I need to delve into, so if there's any in particular I should look at let me know! 

[Bluearmyfox28]

2 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Overall:

• I've been quite impressed by Norwich. Their change of shape, their playing out from the back, their use of Sara. Given the resources available to both teams, they play good stuff and structurally are the best team we've played against so far.

 

 

 

 

I got slated by some on here for saying I was really impressed by Norwich’s recruitment this summer at this level. Genuinely think they will be in the play off’s this year.

Very good win away from home.

[Tom12345]

9 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

@Tom12345 the Spurs versus Man City games this season will be very interesting to watch. Under Mourinho, Conte and Nuno they played counter attack agains them and have an incredible record against Man City doing this. Ange definitely won't play that way, so will they be able to take the game to Man City or will they get taken to the cleaners?

 

Spurs versus Brighton will also be interesting for similar reasons. 

Indeed @StriderHiryu.

 

By the way, Brighton is really playing amazing football with the limited resources they have. Amazing. I am not sure they are as much of a miracle compared to our 2015/16 team, but it is still incredible what they are doing. I hope small teams like them can continue to thrive without the big team picking them off to oblivion. I have not really followed them closely enough to know if the way they play started with Potter or they got themselves to another level after Potter left?

[Tom12345]

10 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

It would be great if JJ develops into the player he could be, but personally i remember when he was at his peak thinking - yes, he's good but he makes a lot of mistakes and has no end product, hopefully he'll improve  in the next few seasons - sadly those next few seasons were riddled with injuries - i hope he makes good but, for all the recent praise, i can't see how enzo sees a future for him other than a back-up/long term replacement for faes or doyle.

 

Problem with dropping doyle is we don't have a left footed player to play as LCB - as discussed in this thread, it's hard to really play this system with a right-footer there, so i think he'll play; and i think faes will be back, fresh and ready, if there's any change it may be that he'll rest vestergaard and give coady some time.

Let’s be not so sure about Justin. I remember he was becoming really good before he started to make a lot of mistakes that you mentioned. Now that we know it could be due to the coaching of Rodgers and the poor tactics Rodgers used which left a lot of players exposed including our full backs. Notice a pattern here: Justin, Castagne and even Ricardo, who we all saw how good they could all be, all suffered a drop in form and started making mistakes in particular in tracking back and defending the backpost and the like; is this due to the tactics that Rodgers used?

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, Tom12345 said:

Indeed @StriderHiryu.

 

By the way, Brighton is really playing amazing football with the limited resources they have. Amazing. I am not sure they are as much of a miracle compared to our 2015/16 team, but it is still incredible what they are doing. I hope small teams like them can continue to thrive without the big team picking them off to oblivion. I have not really followed them closely enough to know if the way they play started with Potter or they got themselves to another level after Potter left?

They played out from the back under Potter. He deserves massive respect for making them so comfortable at that. 
 

But RDZ made them the team that has the most shots on goal on average in the league, making them fly up the league. 
 

Their DOF must be the best in Europe because their succession planning is elite. This summer they sold 150m worth of players and you wouldn’t notice it. 

[Aleksz]

I’ve noticed this pattern of play a few times vs Southampton and Norwich. The double pivot (Be it Winks/Ricardo/Hamza and in this case Ndidi) spin off their markers when Mads has the ball, and show for the pass off the striker. Lovely stuff, like an NFL move.

[StriderHiryu]

@Aleksz thanks for sharing! That's a top account to follow, I will add it to my list. We could make a whole list of some of our attacking patterns of play. There are also some we haven't seen yet, which I am expecting to see later in the season, from the Man City coaching manual.

[StriderHiryu]

Leicester City vs Bristol City Pre-Match:

 

The return of Big Nige! What can we look forward to in the match on Saturday? Here's a quick preview of the game.

 

 

^ Their record so far. Their possession has bounced around from domination to dominated, but the thing that stands out for me is that they have won the xG battle in all but two games, often times quite comfortably. That's the sort of underlying data that is indicative of a very good team. FYI, Leicester were similar in that earlier in the season we were winning, but the data showed we were getting lucky, though this has shifted since the Rotherham game.

 

Bristol City have the 3rd best defence in the league, though haven't scored that many goals. However, the xG suggests they were a bit unlucky in that department, so the recent 4-1 pasting of Plymouth was probably overdue:

 

 

^ An impressive performance here, is that Matty James or Cesc Fabregas in the middle for them?!

 

 

^ This was a cup game so plenty of changes for both teams, but a close game and Bristol looked good going forwards in this one with some nice moves. Perhaps a bit suspect defensively in this one.

 

 

^ Here are the average pitch positions for Plymouth on the left and Norwich in the middle and Hull on the right. We can see they are play a 4231 with the full backs pushing high up the pitch to create the width. Matty James is at the heart of everything they do, pulling the strings in the middle of the park. They press up top and play a high line. The Hull game is very interesting. They only had 39% possession, but had an xG of 3.6 and if you look at their average pitch position, were higher up than in some games where they had 60% possession!

 

Strengths

• Very organised and well-drilled
• A very strong defence. I don't think we will get a gifted goal like Southampton were dishing out.
• Fluid passing between the lines and comfortable in possession.
• Proven manager with great pedigree as this level

 

Weaknesses

• Seem vulnerable on the transition.
  • Gaps behind the full backs if they turn over the ball
  • Midfielders are slow
• Seem a bit wasteful up front, needing more chances to score than they would ideally like

 

Summary

 

They are a good team, in good form, so will present a challenge. I don't think they have a single player that would get into our starting XI, so the quality difference should massively favour us. A lot of teams this season have dared to play man-to-man against us, but I'm not sure if they will, just because I feel it would be a mistake given their slower midfielders and it didn't work out too well for Norwich. Against Hull despite not having possession, they still played their game and had a go at them, so I think we will see them try to do the same here.

 

I'd have us down as favourites, but I have us down as favourites against everyone in the division, home or away. We have the best squad and, recently, the best underlying metrics too. But anything can happen on the day, as we found out against Hull! We have Liverpool away midweek, so we might rotate some players with that game in mind, OR we might play our weaker team against Liverpool.

 

[Aleksz]

 

[Dahnsouff]

Love it Enzo, love it  

[StriderHiryu]

It's noticeable how already our fans aren't getting as irate when we hold the ball for so long, compared to Southampton whom the fans were audibly booing. It's because we have already seen the positive side of the style of play Maresca has brought here. It will still take a bit longer for the home fans to be totally won over, but the away fans are already on the pulse!

[messerschmitt]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

It's noticeable how already our fans aren't getting as irate when we hold the ball for so long, compared to Southampton whom the fans were audibly booing. It's because we have already seen the positive side of the style of play Maresca has brought here. It will still take a bit longer for the home fans to be totally won over, but the away fans are already on the pulse!

It does make you wonder what the players were told to do last season.

[StriderHiryu]

Leicester City 1 - 0 Bristol City

 

 

 

 

This was a pretty straightforward match to analyse, and can be summed in one picture:

 

 

• Bristol City came for a 0-0. They parked the bus !
  • Bristol played a 4231 but in reality it was two banks of 4 with the occasional tepid focussed press around the halfway line that Vestergaard quickly dealt with and sent them back to their shell.
  • They had a compact shape with less than 18 yards between defenders and midfielders. Often times they had all 11 men behind the ball and in their own third.
  • On occasion, they tried to play in Nahki Wells on the break, but he was too slow and too clunky with his touch to make anything stick.
  • Matty James did on occasion make a good forward pass, but with no real outlet, there wasn't much he could do.
• The game very quickly descended into Attack vs Defence
  • In our system against these teams it's notable that Callum Doyle pushes up much further than Faes to make us even more attacking.
  • Bristol chose to try and double up on him at times with Tanner pushing up. Doyle is the player this season so far that teams are targetting the most after Ricardo to try and disrupt Leicester.
  • However, this meant that Mavididi was always free and Wout Faes found him with the diagonal countless times in the first half.
  • Possibly an area we could improve, with the pitch positions confirming it, is that KDH and Mavididi sometimes seem to play in the same space. Perhaps we need to make a bit more of a gap between them, with KDH going more central?
  • We once again see the ridiculous engine from KDH, the furthest man forward on average again. His stamina is insane.
  • The game also had another interesting subplot, Cameron Pring the Bristol City left-back versus Abdul Fatawu. Bristol left him one on one against Fatawu, who clearly had the beating of his man. I felt sorry for Pring, and was surprised Pearson persevered with this, because it looked time and time again that a goal would come from it.
  • The star of the show for me was Wilfred Ndidi, not just for his goal, but his all round play. He was making things happen and setup several good opportunities. His stats don't look that crazy, he had 40 less touches than KDH, fewer key passes and fewer successful passes, but this doesn't tell the full story. It was a very accomplished performance from him.
• The biggest difference in this game compared to the Hull one was our ability to sustain attacks. I will try and post some GIFs later, but even if we didn't score, we kept the pressure ramped right up. Early in the second half there was a point where the Bristol centre backs were high-fiving one another for keeping the ball out. At that point, I felt like they were just delaying the inevitable.
  • Our ability to recycle the ball was much better after an attack failed.
  • We were much better at changing our angle of attack if the initial attempt wasn't on.
  • We were still quite wasteful in my opinion, but kept at it.
  • It's noticeable how at the ground and even on these forums, fans weren't getting bored but anticipating the goal coming as the pressure ramped up. Maresca is winning the fans over!
• At 1-0, Bristol did have one really good chance at the end. Perhaps the one thing Maresca will be unhappy with is that we caused ourselves some problems we didn't need to. But that's clutching at straws and it would have been Criminal if Bristol City scored.
• I expect to see most home games go this way, teams playing for a 0-0. So it was great to see that our patient approach did work.

Really, that is as comprehensive a 1-0 as you will see all season. An impressive all-round performance.

 

[stb1996]

Finding the new system really interesting to watch, and think we’re getting to the stage where different personnel really start to make a difference. Think KDH pushes too far wide to take space away from Mavididi in the 1v1, which we know Maresca likes to play for out wide. I think the first half also showed that at times we could struggle against the low block with a combination of Vardy, KDH and Ndidi as it seemed there was consistently a large hole in the false-9 position. This would usually be filled by Iheanacho dropping deep (either to receive from Hermansen or Vestergaard), or by one of the roaming 8’s pushing forward to get closer to the forward (or often both of these happening, with the 8 making a third-man run into the space vacated by Iheanacho). Think the 2 we started today are our best at turnovers and winning the ball high, but can see some combinations between KDH, Ndidi, Akgun and Casadei being trialled over the next few games. 
 

Don’t want to take away from a great performance, but definitely don’t see Vardy as the starting striker for the length of this season. Rotation will always be key, but I think today really showed how iheanacho brings the midfield and the wingers into the game

[Aleksz]

Disgusting low block we came up against today with no intention to press, all designed to prevent central ball progression.

 

Interesting to see the differences in how teams have set up against us so far… Hull and Norwich going man to man, Bristol City low block, Cardiff mid block sitting on Winks and Ricardo.

 

I personally don’t think Bristol City’s method of dropping off was the answer today, we absolutely dominated them from minute one. When you set up like that against us you’re relying on the us not taking our chances as opposed to managing to stop us (or even getting near us today).

 

Rosenior and Hull got the closest to doing a job on us so far, albeit with a lot of risk and a whole lot of luck.

[JimJams]

45 minutes ago, stb1996 said:

Don’t want to take away from a great performance, but definitely don’t see Vardy as the starting striker for the length of this season. Rotation will always be key, but I think today really showed how iheanacho brings the midfield and the wingers into the game

Not sure I buy that. Kel didn't bring anyone in in his last start.

[StriderHiryu]

2 hours ago, Aleksz said:

Disgusting low block we came up against today with no intention to press, all designed to prevent central ball progression.

 

Interesting to see the differences in how teams have set up against us so far… Hull and Norwich going man to man, Bristol City low block, Cardiff mid block sitting on Winks and Ricardo.

 

I personally don’t think Bristol City’s method of dropping off was the answer today, we absolutely dominated them from minute one. When you set up like that against us you’re relying on the us not taking our chances as opposed to managing to stop us (or even getting near us today).

 

Rosenior and Hull got the closest to doing a job on us so far, albeit with a lot of risk and a whole lot of luck.

I was pretty disappointed by Pearson's approach to the game. They had just come off a great performance and result where they played some sublime stuff. They were 6th in the table too. But they didn't even try! They will say it was a narrow loss, but truth be told they were never in the game. 

 

Hull got credit, but they weren't that good either. Warnock did the best job so far, he dared to go man for man against us, and it almost worked.

 

One of the Bristol fans in the post match thread said "enjoy your holiday in the EFL" and I think he's got a point

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, stb1996 said:

Don’t want to take away from a great performance, but definitely don’t see Vardy as the starting striker for the length of this season. Rotation will always be key, but I think today really showed how iheanacho brings the midfield and the wingers into the game

...I would say pretty much it depends on the opposition!!!

If our opponents look to play a high line or leave sufficient space at the back, then Vardy is suited to receive balls with first-time layoffs to players running either side of him. Nacho would be more suitable as the false 9 with a team sitting deeper, but at this moment he is all over the place and not in a good way. He is not doing what he needs to do, where he links the play, comes deep, and brings a defender with him, and that opens the vacated space to be attacked. I wish he would forget about scoring goals and concentrate on the needs of the team, the goals will come as he will not be looking to force his play or taking ill-advised shots, hoping to prove something to the manager.

[Tom12345]

On 20/09/2023 at 23:34, Tom12345 said:

 

Maybe this is Pep 2.0: More attacking. Simpler and less complicated. Just need all players to form the same pattern and less reliant on individual’s skills. Ange is renowned for being able to use substandard players and still attack - like when he was coach of the Socceroos which overachieved.

 

 

“Angeball” they call it.

 

Attack, attack, attack.

 

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/they-ll-build-a-statue-of-him-how-ange-postecoglou-silenced-doubters-to-take-the-epl-by-storm-20230919-p5e5vd.html?utm_source=ground.news&utm_medium=referral

 

…

 

“He’s a coach that is very passionate about the game, he believes in playing an attacking brand of football, staying on the front foot, being really positive and just the belief that he instils in players is something special. It really galvanises people,” said Geria, who was signed by Postecoglou at Victory in 2012.

“Everywhere he’s gone, he produced. He produced here, he’s produced in Japan, Scotland and now seeing the fruits of it at Tottenham.

…

That attacking style of play has been nicknamed “Angeball”, a style with a focus on relentless high-pressing and retention of the ball that controls the game and limits possession for opposition.

…

 

“He wants to play a high line, he wants to press, he wants high tempos – you don’t stop until half-time and then you don’t stop until the end of the game. That’s how he wants his players to work – hard.”

However, Geria says Postecoglou’s relentless approach to attacking is what has helped him be so successful.

“It’s a focus on his team and then taking control of the game and having a relentless attitude in terms of … just attack, it doesn’t matter whether it’s two goals, three goals [down] or 10-nil up, just keep attacking, keep scoring, keep playing good football and keep producing a quality product,” Geria said.

 

Yep. That’s what I am talking about.

 

[Lambert09]

my gut feeling was that winks would be a hit  here and coady would end in tears. I like coady as a person but I must admit I still trust my gut on this one 

Edited 24 September 2023 by Lambert09