Tactics Under Maresca

[James_lcfc]

1 hour ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

Speed and intelligence, basically.

 

Know when to press, and when you do, it's done with speed and cohesion.

 

They are one of the best teams in the PL - Even mid-table PL teams are a big step up on what we've been playing...Liverpool are another level above that.

[StriderHiryu]

Liverpool 3 - 1 Leicester City

• Despite a poor referee, this scoreline reflected the match as a whole. At times, our goal led a charmed life.
• We committed to playing our playing out from the back style. It led to creating attacks but also put us into huge trouble many times.
• We played two new CBs and Stolarcyzk:
  • Stolarczyk had a poor game. He gave the ball away from goal kicks several times and made some poor saves that did not alleviate the pressure. He's yong and learning so not going to dig into him too much, but it meant that it was harder for us to play out from the back.
  • Souttar was great defensively, but I feel also was not too great on the ball. But given it's his first appearance of the season again a bit unfair to have a dig here.
• Casadei was poor. He got caught on the ball several times, the move broke down with him when the ball was played to him and he seemed off the pace. He got hooked for Ndidi in the second half, which was well overdue.
• Yunus Akgun by contrast was pretty good. He made the first goal by turning and playing out of pressure. He was linking defence and attack and despite being quite a slight player, stood up to the physical demands of the game. He got hooked after the first mistake he made though!
• Changes in the second half made a big difference for me, KDH, Ndidi and Fatawu all had a positive impact offensively. Fatawu should have been given a penalty, Ndidi had a good chance at 2-1!
• We continued to get into trouble, but I also felt like we had a real go in the game and didn't just meekly surrender. With a bit more luck we could have made it 2-2, even though it would not have been deserved.
• In terms of progress, the first time we played Liverpool under Maresca we were 3-0 down at half-time after a good 20 minutes. This time round we were 1-0 up at half-time. Perhaps it's because their super clinical players didn't start, but I feel like this shows the style can work, even if it's living on a knife-edge.

 

 

[filbertway]

9 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I disagree. Yes we were poor against Coventry, but that was our first league game of the season. In fact we flattered to deceive probably all the way through our first set of fixtures up to the international break. Since then we've clearly gone up a gear. Look at the xG and the xGA. We have the best defence in the league now and are consistently outperforming other league teams.

 

The Cov game was mainly down to our errors and not how they pressed us as well to be fair. I've not really seen a team look to press us in the way Liverpool have, the closest two are probably Southampton and Norwich and Hermansen went direct several times. 

 

I'm fully onboard this style of play, my only disagreement is that there's only one way to play when the keeper has the ball. The ultimate goal of this style is to entice their players up the pitch and look to get in behind right? If they have 6 or 7 players in your half, you go over those players and you've done what you wanted to whilst not taking the risk of giving the opposition a free shot on goal.

 

If they're not properly set or you see a weakness in their press, then go short and suck them in. Hermansen seems to be getting better at figuring this out.

 

Winks and Hermansen are two absolutely massive parts of the system. I still feel if that team played last night and Blackburn were to press us as Liverpool did then we would end up losing the ball to the pressure plenty of times.

[ThumbsUp]

2 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

The Cov game was mainly down to our errors and not how they pressed us as well to be fair. I've not really seen a team look to press us in the way Liverpool have, the closest two are probably Southampton and Norwich and Hermansen went direct several times. 

 

I'm fully onboard this style of play, my only disagreement is that there's only one way to play when the keeper has the ball. The ultimate goal of this style is to entice their players up the pitch and look to get in behind right? If they have 6 or 7 players in your half, you go over those players and you've done what you wanted to whilst not taking the risk of giving the opposition a free shot on goal.

 

If they're not properly set or you see a weakness in their press, then go short and suck them in. Hermansen seems to be getting better at figuring this out.

 

Winks and Hermansen are two absolutely massive parts of the system. I still feel if that team played last night and Blackburn were to press us as Liverpool did then we would end up losing the ball to the pressure plenty of times.

I can guarantee you that Blackburn aren't going to be capable of randomly deciding to mirror Klopp's press in a one off game against us. It's not like the Liverpool players just run at ours fast and hope we make mistakes, there's a structured plan. And this is without even mentioning the ocean of quality between the two sides. 

[Aleksz]

We’d have played better through their press last night had Mads, Vestergaard and Winks started, but we made a decision to make changes and essentially take the risk of throwing the game - so be it. We’re not at a level where we can make 10 changes and there not be a drop off. 
 

I liked how despite that drop off we still had the balls to play the way WE play. Fvck going to Anfield and surrendering possession, going long and dropping off into a low block until the inevitable happens. Boring stuff. 

[lcfc-fan1126]

For Blackburn I'd play

Mavididi Vardy Fatawu

KDH ndidi

Winks

Justin coady faes ricardo/hamza

Hermansen

[davieG]

It was a like the Cov game in the the players were being easily hustled off the ball, sometimes with unpunished fouls and some lacks passing al of which made their pressing easier and more sustained. But then we had a rusty out of practice team for the most part.

 

In the way it's played this days a  bit of streetwise craft at keeping hold of the ball and drawing a foul is a much needed skill. Of course you need a ref who isn't overawed by the location, the opposition and being above his status.

[davieG]

2 minutes ago, lcfc-fan1126 said:

For Blackburn I'd play

Mavididi Vardy Fatawu

KDH ndidi

Winks

Justin coady faes ricardo/hamza

Hermansen

I don't think Coady will be playing 2 games on the trot at this stage of his comeback from injury.

[joeybside]

2 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

Better Workrate, Anticipation, etc. 

[Aleksz]

29 minutes ago, davieG said:

It was a like the Cov game in the the players were being easily hustled off the ball, sometimes with unpunished fouls and some lacks passing al of which made their pressing easier and more sustained. But then we had a rusty out of practice team for the most part.

 

In the way it's played this days a  bit of streetwise craft at keeping hold of the ball and drawing a foul is a much needed skill. Of course you need a ref who isn't overawed by the location, the opposition and being above his status.

This is massively true. We’re all talking about how good Liverpool’s press was but helps when you’ve got a weak referee that doesn’t give fouls for all those niggly contact fouls - which he definitely let them get away with last night.

[Dusty]

2 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

Well we also didn’t play our best players so our flow was disrupted somewhat. I honestly think if we had winks, Hermansen, faes and KDH starting we would have been really effective at playing out. 

[Chelmofox]

3 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

$$$$$$ buy you some of the best pressing players in the Business.

 

I for one am glad we didn't go to Anfield and simply play a low block smash and grab. We stuck to Enzo's plan, even with a 2nd string defence and the academy GK.  It led to some really hairy moments, but to some degree that's what we needed. We need to plan / practice how this is going to be when we play more effective opposition. I don't bemone any of the players that put a shift in against Liverpool yesterday - that was damn hard work and they stuck to it, even when Liverpool were swarming all over them. 

 

This is part of the building process. I actually expect a few of the top Championship teams to watch this and wonder if they can do this to us as well. It will be a gamble, but if they aren't effective enough, they will get punished.

[-sodapop]

13 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

$$$$$$ buy you some of the best pressing players in the Business.

 

I for one am glad we didn't go to Anfield and simply play a low block smash and grab. We stuck to Enzo's plan, even with a 2nd string defence and the academy GK.  It led to some really hairy moments, but to some degree that's what we needed. We need to plan / practice how this is going to be when we play more effective opposition. I don't bemone any of the players that put a shift in against Liverpool yesterday - that was damn hard work and they stuck to it, even when Liverpool were swarming all over them. 

 

This is part of the building process. I actually expect a few of the top Championship teams to watch this and wonder if they can do this to us as well. It will be a gamble, but if they aren't effective enough, they will get punished.

Suspect that those Championship sides won't have Szobo and Nunez coming off the bench, in fairness.

[StriderHiryu]

A good question to ask ourselves is if we think we can be successful with this style, assuming we get promoted? Burnley give us cause for concern, though I think they play a bit differently to us. As has been commented a few times, Maresca's style is a bit like Man City and Brighton combined, whilst not strictly being either type.

 

Brighton are one of the few teams that have managed to outplay Man City and Liverpool under Di Zerbi. For a team with considerably fewer resources, that is incredibly impressive and why I am such a fan of Maresca. We may or may not be able to make a team capable of doing it, but at least he's trying.

 

At the same time, I think we are going to have to be pragmatic at times. That doesn't mean changing the style to be a low defensive block, but it does mean getting streetwise sometimes. For example, yesterday we took the lead, so being a bit more deep block and defensive to protect it would be OK, as we could change back if we concede. For now I don't think it's an issue, we should concentrate on improving the fundamentals of the team. But after we hit a certain standard, winning is more important than one highlight clip in a 3-1 defeat! So I wonder if he will ever go that way, or will be stubborn to the very end. Maresca was at Juventus where it was "win at all costs" so some of that mentality must have rubbed off on him.

[Finnegan]

2 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

Speed and intelligence, basically.

 

Know when to press, and when you do, it's done with speed and cohesion.

 

They are one of the best teams in the PL - Even mid-table PL teams are a big step up on what we've been playing...Liverpool are another level above that.

 

They also have one of the best coaches in history at coaching a high intensity pressing game. 

 

People might not like Jurgen Klopp but it doesn't stop him being an extremely gifted coach. 

[coolhandfox]

31 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

So I wonder if he will ever go that way, or will be stubborn to the very end. Maresca was at Juventus where it was "win at all costs" so some of that mentality must have rubbed off on him.

I think he saw last night as a free hit and a chance to continue imprinting his philosophy on the squad, getting players minutes and used to patterns of play.

 

I'm sure he would have loved a win but it felt as much as a live training exercise rather than a go all out to win. 

 

I think he has already shown adaptability to be a let more pragmatic in the games against Southampton and Norwich. 

Edited 28 September 2023 by coolhandfox

[shen]

5 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

They were relentless and simply superb at closing down the spaces, but they were also very resistant to the counter press as well.

At one point, I was trying to only observe their pressing patterns and their build-up play  - just to try and compare the difference in efficacy.

It's obvious they are one of, if not the, best teams doing this and they can choke all but the very best teams in the world when they play like that.

For us, I feel it is more the build-up and playing through the press that we can learn from at this stage of our transformation.

We had some excellent moments as well as some really good resilience in keeping the ball at times, but we need even better movement and positioning to be able to speed up play and get through such a press consistently.

I'd argue our forward options, bar Akgün, were the 'weak' points yesterday, but we will rarely face such a good press again this season, so not sure many conclusions can be drawn from that.

[cruzFOX]

If Enzo really wanted to do a pressure test he would have gone full strength against Liverpool knowing klopp would bring on all his big guns 2nd have to win the game.

as it is klopp still had jota, soba and others to finish us off. 
 

I’m fine with the setup and result was to be expected. I’m plessently suprised we have Liverpool a run for their money. Back to the main order of business so let’s bag another 3 points and move on.

[filbertway]

4 hours ago, ThumbsUp said:

I can guarantee you that Blackburn aren't going to be capable of randomly deciding to mirror Klopp's press in a one off game against us. It's not like the Liverpool players just run at ours fast and hope we make mistakes, there's a structured plan. And this is without even mentioning the ocean of quality between the two sides. 

I can also pretty much guarantee that Hermansen and Winks shall be starting so my hypothetical point will be null and void this weekend anyway

 

[st albans fox]

Many of the players will have thought that trying to play out would be impossible at anfield 

maresca will be happy that last night showed that it is possible and sometimes works at one of the best counter press sides in world football

 

playing without winks and mads allows the players to also ask themselves how much better it could have been aswell.  
 

I think JDT will have a plan for us on Sunday 

[sacreblueits442]

12 hours ago, Bablemikey said:

Why is Liverpools press so effective against us and why are our championship opponents seemingly unable to do it?

...better quality players, it was evident in pre-season, that they have a crop of exciting young players!!!

A well drilled squad, who plays to a system that attempts to dominate their opponents. They go a goal down and they expect to win the game despite that setback.

[Number 6]

There are some downsides to playing the system, regardless, but one of the big advantages of the rigidity is that ability to utilise the squad better. 

 

All of the roles are really clearly defined. We should be able to chop and change more then others without an impact. Changing things about can breed unfamiliarity.

 

This makes the changes in game interesting in a way too, as it's often just a like for like. Can see some taking on more than one role across the front though in maybe McAteer or Akgun.

[Bptiger]

So is our manager a one trick pony , should he have changed tactics when Liverpool really seen blood with there press , should he have changed to the long ball every now and then and put them under pressure. It’s all good to have a set pattern of play but u also got to change it up when u r under massive pressure, really they could have scored 5-6 goals 

 

[Dahnsouff]

6 hours ago, Bptiger said:

So is our manager a one trick pony , should he have changed tactics when Liverpool really seen blood with there press , should he have changed to the long ball every now and then and put them under pressure. It’s all good to have a set pattern of play but u also got to change it up when u r under massive pressure, really they could have scored 5-6 goals 

 

Better to see those results, like Liverpool away, as free hits and retain the rigidity in play style, so every person knows the positions, knows their jobs, keeps it fluid due to this familiarity I reckon. Chopping and changing leads to confusion and a lack of fluidity in our play. An outlier should define anything.

[LCFCJohn]

7 hours ago, Bptiger said:

So is our manager a one trick pony , should he have changed tactics when Liverpool really seen blood with there press , should he have changed to the long ball every now and then and put them under pressure. It’s all good to have a set pattern of play but u also got to change it up when u r under massive pressure, really they could have scored 5-6 goals 

 

One trick pony is unfair. Liverpool are one of the best sides in the country and we had a massively changed side. They’d have caused us no end of issues whatever way we had decided to play.

 

The recent away games have shown he can adapt to me. Until Southampton, we had dominated the ball in games and I did wonder whether he would adapt to a reality where we wouldn’t but he did in that game. We were defensively strong and broke with pace, no better example that Mavididi’s goal where he literally ran from his own half. That is more likely how we would need to approach a number of games, especially away, in the Premier League if we get back there.

 

We then went into Norwich days later and they were hustling a lot in the midfield but we showed we are comfortable letting Hermansen go longer with his distribution to bypass this at times. Sure some will probably scream it was hoofball but with Hermansen’s balls out, they were very precise.