Tactics Under Maresca

[Bourbon Fox]

22 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I could, but I'm sure you could also find the passing maps

Can you give me a quick breakdown of the options for setting up my boy's U8s team, with a bit of pros/cons for each and a couple of GIFs?

[Kierzz]

23 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I could, but I'm sure you could also find the passing maps

What website do you use to getting your statistical info from?

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, Bourbon Fox said:

Can you give me a quick breakdown of the options for setting up my boy's U8s team, with a bit of pros/cons for each and a couple of GIFs?

 

[StriderHiryu]

2 minutes ago, Kierzz said:

What website do you use to getting your statistical info from?

A few:

• FBRef (the best, but painful for your eyes)
• SofaScore
• WhoScored (but this is the worst)

Somewhere previously in this topic I posted about how to get the sexy radar charts for players on FBRef, that is really worth having.

[StriderHiryu]

 

Blackburn Rovers 1 - 4 Leicester City

 

 

Enzo spoke very highly of Blackburn, clearly he was impressed with their tactical setup. 4-1 sounds like an easy win, but the scoreline was pretty flattering, as the xG suggests.

• Blackburn played man-to-man marking and were the best team at it so far. Not just for the goal, but in general play too.
  • The early goal conceded shook us mentally. This was probably the worst we've been in a game at passing out, we stopped doing it so much and reverted more to being a counter attacking team.
• Blackburn played quite a flexible system. At times, they had width, at others they were really narrow, which meant that our team didn't know exactly what to do.
• Though Blackburn did really well in terms of competing for us territorially and stifling our game, they didn't really make too many clear-cut chances.
  • Though you could say the same for Leicester, though we were super clinical and because of game state didn't have to chase the game.
• Our game management was really good, especially near the end, we got hold of the game and controlled it well.
• This result will terrify other teams in the division. Leicester were Ok at best and still won 4-1...

 

 

 

 

[Bourbon Fox]

That tracky top is mint, is my analysis 

[tickler28]

Wonder when we are going to get out of third gear.

[Babylon]

12 hours ago, Aleksz said:

I understand @Ashley’s point to be fair, it did seem that Justin was a lot less “marauding” Doyle is. Which is bizarre considering he’s the more natural full back of the two. Perhaps has a lot to do with being right footed and Enzo not wanting him in advanced areas on his wrong foot with Mavididi already cutting in a lot onto his right from the left side himself.

If you watched the game again, there were a number of times that JJ was pushing wider and there were shouts of "JJ" from the bench, and he suddenly dropped back and got closer to the other CB's. It was definitely an ask from the management. 

[Babylon]

You can't argue with the results and Maresca has done a grand job. But, I've still not been that overly impressed with how we've played (granted I've not seen all the games), a bit like under Rodgers, where by we were winning many games thanks to the quality of the players. We've putting together just enough to win the games, and you see the comments about us not being out of 2nd or 3rd gear from our own fans and opposition fans. It certainly feels like there is far more we're capable of, but I'm just not sure why we don't see it yet. 

 

Is it just a case of us still learning the system, is it because that's just our style, do we even have it in us to get into a perceived higher gear... because often comments like that suggest we're just doing what we need to do and not pushing ourselves that extra yard, which I'm not sure is the case. 

[Chrysalis]

2 hours ago, Collymore said:

When teams are going narrow and making it hard for us to play through can someone explain why when we've got a counterattack or quick break available we often stop, play it back and let the opposition regroup and get back into their positions? I find it really frustrating and have seen it happen so many times this season.

 

At first I thought it was just a lack of confidence or missing opportunities but it's happening so often it must be coached. 

 

I'd have thought when you're playing against a team that are looking to stifle the play who eventually get forward and lose it, that should be the opportunity to punish them and unlock them? 

 

Yes, we're top of the league so things are going well in general but I've counted quite a few missed opportunities this season. 

On the bristol city game near end Enzo ordered the counter attack to stop in its tracks, so he stopped one of them, no idea on the others.

[Larry_LCFC]

There's not many things you can fault him on. Not afraid to make early subs when it's not working. He has got to get a grip of this suicidal passing out from the GK. We've got away with it by the skin of teeth loads already this season and conceded a couple. 

[coolhandfox]

37 minutes ago, Babylon said:

You can't argue with the results and Maresca has done a grand job. But, I've still not been that overly impressed with how we've played (granted I've not seen all the games), a bit like under Rodgers, where by we were winning many games thanks to the quality of the players. We've putting together just enough to win the games, and you see the comments about us not being out of 2nd or 3rd gear from our own fans and opposition fans. It certainly feels like there is far more we're capable of, but I'm just not sure why we don't see it yet. 

 

Is it just a case of us still learning the system, is it because that's just our style, do we even have it in us to get into a perceived higher gear... because often comments like that suggest we're just doing what we need to do and not pushing ourselves that extra yard, which I'm not sure is the case. 

I agree we haven't been fluent and tended to play in patches where we play excellent football.

 

However, I think we have to be mindful of the following factors;

 

In reality, we have a pretty inexperienced manager and coaching team implementing a new system and style of play. 

Massive squad turnover, 13 senior players out, 9 in, that's 22 personal changes. We have a younger, more inexperienced squad; the average of our most regular starting eleven last season was 27 compared to 25 this season. 

A pre-season that was poorly planned.  

We are seen as the big fish, so teams raise their game against us.

You also have very little time on the training ground to work on things when you are playing 3 games a week. 

 

I also think we play within ourselves, almost like Enzo know it going to be a grinding season so we look to win without expending too much effort.   

 

I think we have improved since the opening week of the season, with better structure, and becoming more fluent. 

 

[AjcW]

Think yesterday was the first time i'd say Winks was marked out of being massively influential. Still had a good game but you could see the difference having someone on him constantly made. I imagine other teams will try and give this a go. 

[BenTheFox]

Just now, AjcW said:

Think yesterday was the first time i'd say Winks was marked out of being massively influential. Still had a good game but you could see the difference having someone on him constantly made. I imagine other teams will try and give this a go. 

It depends how brave they are willing to be. It was one extreme to the other in terms of what we have had to face in our last two league games. Bristol City came and sat off us and let us have the ball in 2/3rds of the pitch. Blackburn were really aggressive in terms of their press and positioning. 

[Chelmofox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

You can't argue with the results and Maresca has done a grand job. But, I've still not been that overly impressed with how we've played (granted I've not seen all the games), a bit like under Rodgers, where by we were winning many games thanks to the quality of the players. We've putting together just enough to win the games, and you see the comments about us not being out of 2nd or 3rd gear from our own fans and opposition fans. It certainly feels like there is far more we're capable of, but I'm just not sure why we don't see it yet. 

 

Is it just a case of us still learning the system, is it because that's just our style, do we even have it in us to get into a perceived higher gear... because often comments like that suggest we're just doing what we need to do and not pushing ourselves that extra yard, which I'm not sure is the case. 

I feel the gears point is a bit of cliche, and i think largely used to indicate whether we think we are going full pelt or not. Electric cars don't have gears, they are just more refined when running slower and can produce lots of power when needed.  That for me is Enzo ball. 

 

To counter your point, i've been really impressed, especially since the Hull defeat where i felt that day the system was part of the problem (although on a rewatch we outplayed them and they had some luck).  We said in the earlier games that that we needed to be more clinical, and we have been recently.  We seem to be able to sit back more and counter when we need to (see Southampton and Blackburn) or play the possession game much more but with intent. We are seeing games out much more effectively and the defence has been really solid. 

 

Blackburn was an interesting game for me. I felt we struggled after we scored. They were well coached and had a game plan we've not seen other teams execute. It was also the first game where a playing out the back brain fart led to a goal. The scoreline flattered because we were clinical, but i think as the game went on we were significantly the better team. But imho this is the sort of game where quality does shine, and we had that quality. 

 

My slightly unpopular view is that, in the Championship at least, i don't think its going to get much better than this. Again, the term 'process' is a bit of a cliche, and some of the players will incrementally get better at it, but i expect in the middle of Winter for some players form to drop as well.  I don't think there are gears to go through, other than us turning it on more when we have to. The limiting factor now is the players themselves (Vardys age, Nacho's skills, KDH's one footedness etc), and if promoted i expect Enzo and the recruitment team to have eyes on where they will want improvements.  However, this set of players playing this system should win the Championship, and thats largely all i care about right now. 

Edited 2 October 2023 by Chelmofox

[fox_up_north]

They certainly didn't seem like they were intimidated by us and, as noted, the passing out from the back was scary. Their LW looked like he had bags of space, at times and I don't recall Hermansen passing short to a FB 

[MGLCFC]

I wonder if the talk of getting out of 2nd gear is going to take longer than anticipated. Undoubtedly there has been a huge improvement since game 1, but I sometimes think that Maresca can only take this system so far with the quality of players at his disposal at present. To take it to 3rd or even 4th gear may have to wait until we can purchase more technically gifted players. I'm not saying that our squad is poor, in fact by Championship standards it's outstanding and it is far superior than most other Championship squads, but there is still a gulf in quality compared to what will be required at the next level. I'm really keen to see how far Maresca can take the team as it evolves and develops.

Edited 2 October 2023 by MGLCFC

[sacreblueits442]

48 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

It depends how brave they are willing to be. It was one extreme to the other in terms of what we have had to face in our last two league games. Bristol City came and sat off us and let us have the ball in 2/3rds of the pitch. Blackburn were really aggressive in terms of their press and positioning. 

...it is always a case of how long can they maintain that tempo, without it having a detrimental effect later on!!!

We wrestled back control after long periods of sustained pressure, our conditioning is a big factor in the way we play.

[FoxFossil]

All this talk of getting out of first gear? 

Lads we're a Tesla. Just different technology compared to rest in this league.

[sacreblueits442]

51 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

I wonder if the talk of getting out of 2nd gear is going to take longer than anticipated. Undoubtedly there has been a huge improvement since game 1, but I sometimes think that Maresca can only take this system so far with the quality of players at his disposal at present. To take it to 3rd or even 4th gear may have to wait until we can purchase more technically gifted players. I'm not saying that our squad is poor, in fact by Championship standards it's outstanding and it is far superior than most other Championship squads, but there is still a gulf in quality compared to what will be required at the next level. I'm really keen to see how far Maresca can take the team as it evolves and develops.

...where the perception of another gear will be echoed will be when we can overcome our poor last-third play!!!

There are little things, such as where Mavididi's crosses in the box are lazy and inaccurate, twice now Ndidi has got into the box and dinked a ball to a man, this is from a player deemed unable to make easy 5-yard layoffs. He (Mavididi) has to be more creative and have better control in those situations where he can pick a man out. We butcher too many counterattacks even when we have better numbers, do we have to get more intelligent players in or can we coach these players to make better decisions?

   Fatawu is going to be a frustrating player, he seems to have everything but is going to show little end product, he takes too many touches when he comes inside, you either get the shot off or you play the pass. When he finally scores it will most likely be a worldie, but he does put in a shift defensively, just need to stop collecting yellow cards.

[Jobyfox]

23 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it is always a case of how long can they maintain that tempo, without it having a detrimental effect later on!!!

We wrestled back control after long periods of sustained pressure, our conditioning is a big factor in the way we play.

I kind of feel that’s the deal for most sides in the Championship. Sides will close us down and press or play with a low block, but these are difficult things to have the energy or mental discipline to do over 90 minutes. 
 

It feels like if we stay in games we’ll have the quality to finish teams off when their intensity inevitably drops. Other teams (eg Southampton & Leeds) don’t appear (so far) to have the capability, defensively, to achieve this. 

The big difference with the Premier League is those teams have more quality to hurt us during their periods of ascendence 

[Bourbon Fox]

1 hour ago, Jobyfox said:

I kind of feel that’s the deal for most sides in the Championship. Sides will close us down and press or play with a low block, but these are difficult things to have the energy or mental discipline to do over 90 minutes. 
 

It feels like if we stay in games we’ll have the quality to finish teams off when their intensity inevitably drops. Other teams (eg Southampton & Leeds) don’t appear (so far) to have the capability, defensively, to achieve this. 

The big difference with the Premier League is those teams have more quality to hurt us during their periods of ascendence 

Absolutely, because it's easier to move the ball than move bodies, and when we have the ball we get respite.

 

I think that is one of the reasons why we'll often go backwards and reset instead of taking on the riskier break.

 

Couple that with a bench that is capable of carrying out exactly the same plan, and you see why we're scoring so many goals in the last 20 minutes.

[Kierzz]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

If you watched the game again, there were a number of times that JJ was pushing wider and there were shouts of "JJ" from the bench, and he suddenly dropped back and got closer to the other CB's. It was definitely an ask from the management. 

Yep they probably wanted to play him a bit deeper and more central when in possession against Blackburn.

 

This would ensure three players remained back most of the time when in possession and we could use his pace in central areas when defending against them in transition where they are able to counter very fast and effectively. Worked pretty well in the end

[Kierzz]

2 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it is always a case of how long can they maintain that tempo, without it having a detrimental effect later on!!!

We wrestled back control after long periods of sustained pressure, our conditioning is a big factor in the way we play.

Yep totally agree. When you go man to man and press as aggressively as they did with less than 50% of possession it's very hard to sustain it in the last 30mins which is when we blew them away. 

[lcfcsnow]

5 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

• • The early goal conceded shook us mentally. This was probably the worst we've been in a game at passing out, we stopped doing it so much and reverted more to being a counter attacking team.

Could say it benefitted us then, as our two biggest wins have been 4-1 at Southampton and Blackburn, both games we had less possession and more counter attacking.