Some of our recent transfer activity

[JimJams]

10 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that. We left ourselves with no ability to sign players because we'd maxed out wages and then were asking unreasonable fees for those we wanted to move on.

 

I've always felt that rewarding successful players with large contracts needs to be incentive based and achievement based, likewise new signings quickly increase their salary if they succeed, rather than get £80-90k a week straight off the bat. Hopefully we learn that if we get back up.

The trouble with that mindset is that it's not done in a vacuum. Other clubs are talking to agents, and interested clubs won't be offering incentive based contracts, they'll just offer straight up better terms. So if you want to keep the best players, you need to do it to some degree.  Unless we manage to get ourselves a conveyor belt of talent where we can let them go if they're not playing ball.

[James_lcfc]

1 hour ago, Lillehamring said:

If we do go up I think we'll have a basic core that would be one of the strongest ever promoted sides (depending on certain players resigning), so i think we'd have more than enough to stay up, especially with how confidently we're playing.  I don't think the club would go out and spunk money like forest and villa did and, frankly, i don't think they'd need to - the club's policy has always to build gradually, and with a few smart signings, combined with a core of players with top flight experience, we'd have enough to pick off at least half a dozen of the worst PL teams.

We’ll need to spunk money like Forest and Villa did, unfortunately.

 

With loans leaving and players contracts running down, we’ll be in another mess.

 

Mads and Winks are more than capable at a higher level, but I think the rest who are likely to stay are very much lower level PL standard, at best.
Obviously that doesn’t include Cannon.

[JimJams]

Well the only loans that are out of our hands to a degree are Casadei and Doyle. Neither of which are getting into their parent clubs set ups as things stand. Doyle we could buy, Cas probably even get another loan. Imo. Yunus and Fats are down to us. Then there's Vardy, Kel and Wilf who will be out of contract. I don't think that's too big a deal given their relative input so far this season. I don't think we'll be in a mess as such. Actually think it might be a lot easier than this summer. We wouldn't be missing out on players we did this year.

[Lionator]

Recruitment before Rodgers = good

Recruitment during Rodgers = bad

Recruitment after Rodgers = good

 

Now I’m sure it’s not that simple but if you cut out a cancer, your health tends to improve. 

Edited 21 September 2023 by Lionator

[brookfox]

The signings have been good enough that I don’t remotely miss a single player who left us in the summer.

[Bourbon Fox]

59 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I've always felt that rewarding successful players with large contracts needs to be incentive based and achievement based, 

Same for £10m managers

[casablancas]

1 hour ago, Royston. said:

Is Fatawu our player?

On loan with apparently a very reasonable clause to purchase. 

[murphy]

Well, you can't argue with the table, but I can always try.

 

I don't think that £14m spent on two players yet to get off the treatment table can be considered good business at this stage and signing a player already injured is just reckless imo.

 

I think that Winks is a great addition and the best bit of business of the summer and Hermansen is also a great buy.   

 

Not sure about Akgun or fatawu and I was was wary or Mavdidi but he seems to be growing into the role.  I have just seen too many Musas, Diabates and Ghezzals - wingers from weaker foreign leagues that are ineffective over here.  Will need convincing.  I really believe that we should have pushed the boat out to retain Barnes and I think he would have stayed, not least because he had 2 years left on his contract.  He would carve up The Championship and a proven goal scoring winger would be a great asset if we did manage to get promoted.  We couldn't afford to buy a player like him.

 

Personally, I would have liked to see players signed with high ceilings that can potentially grow into Premier League players with us.  Doyle is one of those.  THB could have been one of those, likewise Piroe and McAtee, but the latter chose Sheff Utd.

 

Finally, I don't think that the prices we got for Maddison or Barnes can possibly be considered good business.

 

Ok.  I'm ready for the onslaught.  Away you go...

 

 

[Jobyfox]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Recruitment before Rodgers = good

Recruitment during Rodgers = bad

Recruitment after Rodgers = good

 

Now I’m sure it’s not that simple but if you cut out a cancer, your health tends to improve. 

I’m not usually one to jump on Rodgers for everything, but I think there’s some truth here.

 

No system of recruitment is perfect. We had an awful window post title win in 2016. 
 

Rodgers, however, seemed to dismantle what we’d got and bring in his own people - like Congerton. Celtic fans warned us of his poor record in the transfer market, but I thought it was a bit of sour grapes at the time.
 

But we wasted millions on players who were either poor or Brendan had no idea what to do with in the systems we played. We could say that BR was given players he couldn’t work with but, as stated above, it was his bloody team who were bringing them in! 

Edited 21 September 2023 by Jobyfox

[Lambert09]

5 hours ago, OntarioFox said:

Add Doyle to that list, by no means the finished product but yesterday showed what he's all about. Putting his body on the line a fair few times - Morgan-esque performance!

 

He's 19.

 

I actually dread to think what overpaid,  journeyman dross we'd have gone for if we'd stayed up by the skin of our teeth. This is the rebuild we needed, but it was never going to be feasible in the bright lights of the Premier League circus.

 

The main concern would be an over-reliance on loans and not being able to keep the squad together if we go up, a bit like Forest last year who had to take a throw enough / stick approach in the market as a result. But yes, for now, we've got the mix just about right. So far the loanees are just the spice - the backbone of our success so far are players which are ours. If we were relying on Casadei and Yunus every game I'd be concerned - Doyle is the only one who is a mainstay so far.

we only really have 2 though. Doyle and casadei. The others have options so i wouldn’t call it an over reliance, more a try before you buy. 

 

Doyle will be sold next year so he’s also gettable. 

[casablancas]

You try and point out some of the positives and people always find a way of turning it   just enjoy 

[Lambert09]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that. We left ourselves with no ability to sign players because we'd maxed out wages and then were asking unreasonable fees for those we wanted to move on.

 

I've always felt that rewarding successful players with large contracts needs to be incentive based and achievement based, likewise new signings quickly increase their salary if they succeed, rather than get £80-90k a week straight off the bat. Hopefully we learn that if we get back up.

I don’t think it was the rewarding players with contracts that was the issue. That allowed us to lock down some great assets.

 

The issue was then because of the large contracts people had earned, rudkin was giving youth players and new signings outrageously high above market rate contracts. 

 

I genuinely beleive if we had offered bertrand or jannik 2/3rds or possibly even half what they got they would have signed. Nobody was paying bertrand more than 40k Because you can bet he got a very large sign on fee as well. Not to make you feel sick but Ivan Toney for example is only getting 21k per week at the moment. 

 

we just lost all sense of value 

Edited 21 September 2023 by Lambert09

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that. We left ourselves with no ability to sign players because we'd maxed out wages and then were asking unreasonable fees for those we wanted to move on.

 

I've always felt that rewarding successful players with large contracts needs to be incentive based and achievement based, likewise new signings quickly increase their salary if they succeed, rather than get £80-90k a week straight off the bat. Hopefully we learn that if we get back up.

We were maxed out on wages because we had effectively doubled up in every position to cope with the extra games in europe and to be strong enough to push for a top 6 place - i'm sure the salaries were fairly standard for the players we were buying (ie players with european experience) - more often than not the market sets the rate not individual DoFs.

 

We don't really know what fees were being asked for, but it doesn't seem like we ever really had many offers - which is probably more to do with the drop off in form of the players rather than us asking for too much money.

 

Anyway - he's got us some great deals this season and brought in as much money as we were likely to get - so, regardless of how we feel about his recent work, what he's done this season should be applauded.

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

We’ll need to spunk money like Forest and Villa did, unfortunately.

 

With loans leaving and players contracts running down, we’ll be in another mess.

 

Mads and Winks are more than capable at a higher level, but I think the rest who are likely to stay are very much lower level PL standard, at best.
Obviously that doesn’t include Cannon.

Will we though? To an extent it depends on who stays and who goes - assuming we want to keep them, it's not unreasonable to think that nacho, ndidi, hamza and vestergaard will choose to stay if we go up, the other players - marcal & nelson won't make any difference to the quality of the squad, smithies, praet and albrighton seldom play right now, so that simply frees up space and salary; and vardy might even get a one year deal!

 

The loans leaving will be of no great significance as discussed earlier (options to buy, limited involvement etc). 

 

You only have to look at our bench to see that we have a far stronger squad than villa and forest had when they went up.

 

I don't think the club or maresca will feel we need to be pushing for europe, just to consolidate and replace/strengthen in areas where we need improvement or depth - but realistically, it won't be in double figures, or a cricket score in forest's case.

[MPH]

7 hours ago, moore_94 said:

I do think there is a good chance that we could get Doyle and Casadei back on loan next season if we do go up and want them, possibly a chance of Doyle on a permanent

 

If they play a certain amount we are obligated to buy Yunus and Fatawu if we go up as well

 

I’d really like to see some progress from Casadei before I’d take him back.. especially in the prem. Been a bit of a bit part player so far so can’t really judge him. Might need a run of games to start progressing..

 

it’s almost like a game of football manager where I’d be quite excited if we got an injury so I can bring my wonder kid on…

Edited 21 September 2023 by MPH

[Guest Sideshow Faes]

Got to give rudkin some credit for this summer. Sorry, but it's true.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

12 hours ago, ThumbsUp said:

We have an obligation to buy Fatawu if we get promoted and an option to buy Akgun that we can trigger. €17m and €9m respectively. 

 

Also I swear Doyle was rumoured to be a permanent signing right up to the wire, and I also think it was us that wanted it as a loan rather than a purchase. If true we'd probably be able to buy him if we go up.

Doyle is very highly rated at Man City, especially by the trans*. He’s the Grandson of a FA Cup winning City captain so I’m told.
 

*haha unfortunate autocorrect… fans! To my knowledge Doyle doesn’t have a particular following in the trans community 

Edited 22 September 2023 by Wasyls Pec Deck

[sdb]

10 hours ago, murphy said:

Well, you can't argue with the table, but I can always try.

 

I don't think that £14m spent on two players yet to get off the treatment table can be considered good business at this stage and signing a player already injured is just reckless imo.

 

I think that Winks is a great addition and the best bit of business of the summer and Hermansen is also a great buy.   

 

Not sure about Akgun or fatawu and I was was wary or Mavdidi but he seems to be growing into the role.  I have just seen too many Musas, Diabates and Ghezzals - wingers from weaker foreign leagues that are ineffective over here.  Will need convincing.  I really believe that we should have pushed the boat out to retain Barnes and I think he would have stayed, not least because he had 2 years left on his contract.  He would carve up The Championship and a proven goal scoring winger would be a great asset if we did manage to get promoted.  We couldn't afford to buy a player like him.

 

Personally, I would have liked to see players signed with high ceilings that can potentially grow into Premier League players with us.  Doyle is one of those.  THB could have been one of those, likewise Piroe and McAtee, but the latter chose Sheff Utd.

 

Finally, I don't think that the prices we got for Maddison or Barnes can possibly be considered good business.

 

Ok.  I'm ready for the onslaught.  Away you go...

 

 

Pretty pessimistic but I don't think anyone can factually argue with much of that. Certainly our track record with wingers means we should always view such incomings without too much hope.

[Dahnsouff]

10 hours ago, murphy said:

Well, you can't argue with the table, but I can always try.

 

I don't think that £14m spent on two players yet to get off the treatment table can be considered good business at this stage and signing a player already injured is just reckless imo.

 

I think that Winks is a great addition and the best bit of business of the summer and Hermansen is also a great buy.   

 

Not sure about Akgun or fatawu and I was was wary or Mavdidi but he seems to be growing into the role.  I have just seen too many Musas, Diabates and Ghezzals - wingers from weaker foreign leagues that are ineffective over here.  Will need convincing.  I really believe that we should have pushed the boat out to retain Barnes and I think he would have stayed, not least because he had 2 years left on his contract.  He would carve up The Championship and a proven goal scoring winger would be a great asset if we did manage to get promoted.  We couldn't afford to buy a player like him.

 

Personally, I would have liked to see players signed with high ceilings that can potentially grow into Premier League players with us.  Doyle is one of those.  THB could have been one of those, likewise Piroe and McAtee, but the latter chose Sheff Utd.

 

Finally, I don't think that the prices we got for Maddison or Barnes can possibly be considered good business.

 

Ok.  I'm ready for the onslaught.  Away you go...

 

 

Don`t think an onslaught is required, in fact inquiry due to past horror shows is warranted, despite our great start.

Think plenty of our woes in the transfer market are down to arrogance, relaxing after we achieved so much. (Yes I think our transfer mismanagement are that longstanding)

Back to this window, you mention potential such as Doyle and I agree, but isn`t that what Fatawu and Akgun are? Yes we have been stung badly by foreign wingers as you mentioned, but we are under a different regime now, so I have hope of a change of fortune.

Agree on Winks and Mads, am also encouraged by Akgun, his time in the midfield role was very positive for me in an area I felt we were a little light, as he has the industry of KDH and some skill. and Fatawu looks a handful.

For me, we did exactly what I hoped in the window, leaders and some youth, but our inability to shift players not required remains a perpetual issue though. 

The unexpected benefit seen thus far, is the reintegration of players condemned for the pit but looking like they can be valuable this season, Vestergaard, Hamza, now if we can just get Daka involved we would be stronger still.

[James_lcfc]

9 hours ago, Lillehamring said:

Will we though? To an extent it depends on who stays and who goes - assuming we want to keep them, it's not unreasonable to think that nacho, ndidi, hamza and vestergaard will choose to stay if we go up, the other players - marcal & nelson won't make any difference to the quality of the squad, smithies, praet and albrighton seldom play right now, so that simply frees up space and salary; and vardy might even get a one year deal!

 

The loans leaving will be of no great significance as discussed earlier (options to buy, limited involvement etc). 

 

You only have to look at our bench to see that we have a far stronger squad than villa and forest had when they went up.

 

I don't think the club or maresca will feel we need to be pushing for europe, just to consolidate and replace/strengthen in areas where we need improvement or depth - but realistically, it won't be in double figures, or a cricket score in forest's case.

Do we really want to be offering extensions to most of those players though?

 

Iheanacho, Ndidi, Vestergaard, Hamza, Albrighton, Praet and Vardy are probably best off leaving if we want to move forward. Either their best days are behind them or they are players that struggle playing at a higher level.

 

Add the four loans and that’s 11 players there. I know we can make a couple of the loans permanent straight away but as things stand now we don’t know if that’s something we’d want to do.

 

I’m not being all doom and gloom anyway - No reason why we can’t recruit well. If there’s one thing Enzo has shown so far, it’s that he’s pretty ruthless - I doubt there will be much sentiment for players that have done well at this level if we do go up.

[Clever Fox]

15 hours ago, Bourbon Fox said:

Same for £10m managers

Exactly, If they're good enough they'd back themselves.

I've said it many times, The right Manager is everything. 

That's where all success starts , With the Manager.

[Ginger_Filbert]

18 hours ago, moore_94 said:

I do think there is a good chance that we could get Doyle and Casadei back on loan next season if we do go up and want them, possibly a chance of Doyle on a permanent

 

If they play a certain amount we are obligated to buy Yunus and Fatawu if we go up as well

Know for definite that Doyle has already told the club he wants to sign permanently. 

[Lillehamring]

On 22/09/2023 at 09:12, James_lcfc said:

Do we really want to be offering extensions to most of those players though?

 

Iheanacho, Ndidi, Vestergaard, Hamza, Albrighton, Praet and Vardy are probably best off leaving if we want to move forward. Either their best days are behind them or they are players that struggle playing at a higher level.

 

Add the four loans and that’s 11 players there. I know we can make a couple of the loans permanent straight away but as things stand now we don’t know if that’s something we’d want to do.

 

I’m not being all doom and gloom anyway - No reason why we can’t recruit well. If there’s one thing Enzo has shown so far, it’s that he’s pretty ruthless - I doubt there will be much sentiment for players that have done well at this level if we do go up.

It's a fair point - and why i suggested that it was a case of 'if we wanted to keep them' - Personally, i'd lose nacho - great guy but just not consistent enough, albrighton they won't extend, vardy - who knows! - hamza still has his best years ahead of him and does seem to have added some new dimensions to his game, also I don't think he'd demand a high salary, praet will go, but no one will even notice and vestergaard - hmm, on his day he's an international that has spent his career in the top flight, and enzo seems to like him, so maybe a short deal?

 

Hopefully, we'll have braybrooke and alves coming through so that should save at least two signings....

 

But I think the key thing here is that, even as it stands, with a year under maresca, we will have a team that is capable of beating enough of the poor PL to at least stay up.  We'll have funds to bring in, i'd guess, maybe 4 or 5 good players or improve some depth.  So i don't feel we'll need to go crazy.

 

And, yes, we do seem to have found our recruiting mojo again - I think it's safe to say, as a club, we know how to build a team - just not how to strengthen one!

[Stormfox]

On 22/09/2023 at 12:20, Ginger_Filbert said:

Know for definite that Doyle has already told the club he wants to sign permanently. 

Is that because he knows he won't get anywhere near the man city squad? 

[phildw]

 

 

 

 

 

If you're not sure about Fatawu after yesterday's masterclass then I don't think your sure about football!