MPH Posted 18 October 2023 Author Share Posted 18 October 2023 Hmm… not sure what to make of this…. Seems like a genuine account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beepee1984 Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 37 minutes ago, MPH said: Hmm… not sure what to make of this…. Seems like a genuine account? Be aware misinformation everywhere. This appears to follow on from Israel’s defence minister blaming PIJ, but the videos time stamp was not accurate to the time of the hospital strike. (Not certain if this is the exact same footage) PIJ reject the claim (but then everyone is to cover themselves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPH Posted 18 October 2023 Author Share Posted 18 October 2023 17 minutes ago, beepee1984 said: Be aware misinformation everywhere. This appears to follow on from Israel’s defence minister blaming PIJ, but the videos time stamp was not accurate to the time of the hospital strike. (Not certain if this is the exact same footage) PIJ reject the claim (but then everyone is to cover themselves) there are other videos coming out… but no offense Hamas.. it’s unlikely Hamas possess a missile strong enough to blow up a hospital 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTY_FOX Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 I'd be more shocked if hamas didn't shoot out from the hospital and Israel then level it than other scenarios in all honesty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 I honestly don't think the IDF would be denying it if they were responsible. They know the US will want to see the evidence, so what would be the point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 If a Hamas rocket was able to generate that level of impact, I think the air raid sirens in Israel would be on continuously. No way was that a misfired rocket from the impact video. They needed to release “proof” when they made the announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 8 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: If a Hamas rocket was able to generate that level of impact, I think the air raid sirens in Israel would be on continuously. No way was that a misfired rocket from the impact video. They needed to release “proof” when they made the announcement. I should think it isn't that hard for an expert to tell the difference between a rocket blast and a bomb dropped from the air. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 7 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: If a Hamas rocket was able to generate that level of impact, I think the air raid sirens in Israel would be on continuously. No way was that a misfired rocket from the impact video. They needed to release “proof” when they made the announcement. What level of proof would you need to satisfy? Would you believe any proof Israel presents as it's not from a third party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 OSINT in daylight indicating more and more that it was from the Hamas side. Maybe Israel is innocent after all and we are complicit in anti semitism 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickyblueeyes Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said: I should think it isn't that hard for an expert to tell the difference between a rocket blast and a bomb dropped from the air. Just now, breadandcheese said: What level of proof would you need to satisfy? Would you believe any proof Israel presents as it's not from a third party? whichever evidence was used to ascertain the true cause of the blast needs to be presented AND verified by an independent third party. The delay in itself doesn’t give the best impression. The impact this could potentially have needs that level of scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 3 minutes ago, Lionator said: OSINT in daylight indicating more and more that it was from the Hamas side. Maybe Israel is innocent after all and we are complicit in anti semitism Lots of people are very quick to believe everything Hamas says that is for sure. Which is quite remarkable what with them literally murdering 1500 people last week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 1 minute ago, Lionator said: OSINT in daylight indicating more and more that it was from the Hamas side. Maybe Israel is innocent after all and we are complicit in anti semitism Thing is, incidents like this just further entrench the "pick a side". When Ukraine's stray missiles killed those at a market and the Polish farmer, the response becomes "well Russia started it so it's still their fault". Same thing here, as blame will just be shifted to the "side" people blame for starting this situation. Whoever pulled the trigger is a secondary consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 22 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said: If a Hamas rocket was able to generate that level of impact, I think the air raid sirens in Israel would be on continuously. No way was that a misfired rocket from the impact video. They needed to release “proof” when they made the announcement. Did Hamas not need to have proof when they kicked of a massive media campaign blaming Israel? Perhaps the side making the allegations should have some proof before they start telling the media what they think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanSP Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Lots of people are very quick to believe everything Hamas says that is for sure. Which is quite remarkable what with them literally murdering 1500 people last week. You make it sound like Israel hasn't murdered anyone in the last fortnight. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 1 minute ago, Zear0 said: Thing is, incidents like this just further entrench the "pick a side". When Ukraine's stray missiles killed those at a market and the Polish farmer, the response becomes "well Russia started it so it's still their fault". Same thing here, as blame will just be shifted to the "side" people blame for starting this situation. Whoever pulled the trigger is a secondary consideration. Maybe, but there is a big difference between saying this is all Israels fault because blah, and the IDF dropped a massive bomb on a hospital deliberately killing 500 civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 Just now, StanSP said: You make it sound like Israel hasn't murdered anyone in the last fortnight. False equivalence again. Israel is attempting to destroy a terrorist organization on its borders which launched a horrific attack and has the stated objective of its destruction. If you cannot see that is different from the terrorist attack then I don't know what to say to you to be honest. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 (edited) . Edited 18 October 2023 by Lionator Second thoughts about sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 1 minute ago, Lionator said: Also having a debate with my (very socially left wing but fiddles his taxes) housemate this morning who believes that Keir Starmer should resign and if he doesn’t is a legitimate physical target, wtf. If that isn't an invitation to call the HMRC tip off line I don't know what is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daggers Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 2 minutes ago, Lionator said: Also having a debate with my (very socially left wing but fiddles his taxes) housemate this morning who believes that Keir Starmer should resign and if he doesn’t is a legitimate physical target, wtf. I remember when Big Brother was just about racism and bullying. This is dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: Did Hamas not need to have proof when they kicked of a massive media campaign blaming Israel? Perhaps the side making the allegations should have some proof before they start telling the media what they think. It's on journalists more than Hamas. Some of the immediate reporting was abysmal. I understand why the first conclusion would be Israel, but a journalist is there to present evidence and not jump straight to any conclusion without supposedly demonstrating bias. Hamas once again find this tactic works. Look at the protests stoked up in the Arab world and Turkey. A new blood libel has been created. And police here will have to step up more patrols and spend more money policing the threat to the British Jewish community from the fear of lone wolf attacks as we saw in Brussels the other night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 5 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: If that isn't an invitation to call the HMRC tip off line I don't know what is! Well 🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said: False equivalence again. Israel is attempting to destroy a terrorist organization on its borders which launched a horrific attack and has the stated objective of its destruction. If you cannot see that is different from the terrorist attack then I don't know what to say to you to be honest. Dead is dead, and there's a reason the accidental killing of a human being is still considered a criminal act, though one of lesser grade than one with proven intent (and quite frankly war makes monsters out of everyone it touches, so I'd wager that not all the Palestinian deaths in this were entirely accidental anyway). Israel really should take its share of responsibility for the innocent lives it takes while carrying out the destruction of Hamas, rather than simply washing their hands off them as simply "collateral damage" or putting all the blame on Hamas for them being there - like it or not, the choice to actually pull the trigger is their own, no one else's, as difficult a choice it may be. Do what they have to do, but don't blame others for the blood spilled. Front up and at least admit some culpability and at least tolerate the judgment of the international community from it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 7 hours ago, MPH said: there’s probably very few countries who could be truly impartial.. That's true. But it does need to be done for the sake of the people who died there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 10 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: It's on journalists more than Hamas. Some of the immediate reporting was abysmal. I understand why the first conclusion would be Israel, but a journalist is there to present evidence and not jump straight to any conclusion without supposedly demonstrating bias. Hamas once again find this tactic works. Look at the protests stoked up in the Arab world and Turkey. A new blood libel has been created. And police here will have to step up more patrols and spend more money policing the threat to the British Jewish community from the fear of lone wolf attacks as we saw in Brussels the other night. This is spoken as if only one side of this conflict engages in such media manipulation. That is not true. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpaM Posted 18 October 2023 Share Posted 18 October 2023 Pretty damning evidence from Israel this morning that the hospital strike was a Hamas rocket that failed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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