Five day junior doc’s strike

[Daggers]

This five day junior doctor’s strike is absolutely pointless. 
 

I couldn’t be more supportive of improving their conditions of service and pay - but to go out for five days when there’s no government, and a new one coming in a week? Fvck me. 
 

The patients who are going to be messed about again - the lives at risk in already overstretched EDs - the industrious support staff’s lives made hell. Never thought I would say it, but what a bunch of cvnts. 

[Tommy G]

35% payrise  

 

 

 

 

[Innovindil]

Co-workers wife was due for an op on Monday that she's been waiting in pain for ages for has already been cancelled. 

 

He's not a happy bunny. Jeez. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

29 minutes ago, Daggers said:

This five day junior doctor’s strike is absolutely pointless. 
 

I couldn’t be more supportive of improving their conditions of service and pay - but to go out for five days when there’s no government, and a new one coming in a week? Fvck me. 
 

The patients who are going to be messed about again - the lives at risk in already overstretched EDs - the industrious support staff’s lives made hell. Never thought I would say it, but what a bunch of cvnts. 

I guess they need to put the pressure on the new government too save our NHS and services. 

 

 

[Wymsey]

The thing is with the pay increase demand, every other worker in different positions will want one, too.

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

The thing is with the pay increase demand, every other worker in different positions will want one, too.

Good luck for the next 12 months I say!

[peach0000]

1 minute ago, Wymsey said:

The thing is with the pay increase demand, every other worker in different positions will want one, too.

The thing is 35% is just a starting number. Start high and negotiate to what you actually want. Are junior doctors in the U.K. underpaid? In my option yes. Compared to other countries they are dramatically underpaid maybe by even more than 35%. If as a country the U.K. wants the best doctors (it should be the aim) then they need to pay for it. It’ll probably be settled around 10% but still maybe in my opinion it should be more. 
 

the timing I suspect is to make it an issue from the word go. Starmer said in one of the debates he would be in a room negotiating from his first day in office. I would imagine this is to make sure it happens. The timing is actually smart.

[Daggers]

11 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

 

the timing I suspect is to make it an issue from the word go. Starmer said in one of the debates he would be in a room negotiating from his first day in office. I would imagine this is to make sure it happens. The timing is actually smart.

The timing couldn’t be more stupid - it reflects poorly on Labour in the final stages of the election, the union was pleaded with, five days instead of one for disruption - not to mention the loss of support from colleagues and socialists. 
 

It displays a level of ignorance and selfishness that mirrors the fatuous 35% claim. That isn’t starting high to accept lower, it’s taking drugs and making up a number while waiting for pizza. One that will rightly be slapped down against the backdrop of a 2% inflation rate. 
 

It plays into Starmer’s hands. Patients, colleagues, traditional supporters of their cause will all be fvcked off at this - and all of them will be happy to see Starmer tell them 3.5% and no more. 

Edited 27 June 2024 by Daggers

[Fox92]

17 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

The thing is with the pay increase demand, every other worker in different positions will want one, too.

Good, so they should.

[peach0000]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

The timing couldn’t be more stupid - it reflects poorly on Labour in the final stages of the election, the union was pleaded with, five days instead of one for disruption - not to mention the loss of support from colleagues and socialists. 
 

It displays a level of ignorance and selfishness that mirrors the fatuous 35% claim. That isn’t starting high to accept lower, it’s taking drugs and making up a number while waiting for pizza. One that will rightly be slapped down against the backdrop of a 2% inflation rate. 
 

It plays into Starmer’s hands. Patients, colleagues, traditional supporters of their cause will all be fvcked off at this - and all of them will be happy to see Starmer tell them 3.5% and no more. 

The argument of inflation I feel is entirely wrong. Inflation would only have been relevant if they had received pay rises in line with inflation when it was higher. I have sympathy with them as I do with other employees going through the same. I will always be hesitant to criticise someone for wanting better work conditions without myself being in their shoes

[Daggers]

24 minutes ago, peach0000 said:

The argument of inflation I feel is entirely wrong. Inflation would only have been relevant if they had received pay rises in line with inflation when it was higher. I have sympathy with them as I do with other employees going through the same. I will always be hesitant to criticise someone for wanting better work conditions without myself being in their shoes

I have/had sympathy. 
 

This latest 5-day strike is not only ridiculously stupid, it is short-sighted. The argument about inflation is entirely relevant when it comes to optics. Over the next 12 months no one you know will be walking home with anything better than 2% - they needed public support, they have pissed on it. 

[Otis]

5 day strike whilst Glastonbury in occurring... just saying. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

1 hour ago, Daggers said:

I have/had sympathy. 
 

This latest 5-day strike is not only ridiculously stupid, it is short-sighted. The argument about inflation is entirely relevant when it comes to optics. Over the next 12 months no one you know will be walking home with anything better than 2% - they needed public support, they have pissed on it. 

You clearly are missing the point here it's not just pay, it's workers conditions too. 

 

If these don't improve then the NHS won't be able to attract or retain staff. Just look at the brain drain occurring right now - it's mind blowing. How many teachers, doctors, nurses scientists and businesses are moving abroad for better pay, benefits, lower working hours and to a functioning country?

 

You either want Britain to be a decent place or don't but this is a big part of it.

[Daggers]

1 hour ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

You clearly are missing the point here it's not just pay, it's workers conditions too. 

 

If these don't improve then the NHS won't be able to attract or retain staff. Just look at the brain drain occurring right now - it's mind blowing. How many teachers, doctors, nurses scientists and businesses are moving abroad for better pay, benefits, lower working hours and to a functioning country?

 

You either want Britain to be a decent place or don't but this is a big part of it.

Jeez, why am I still trying to explain this: I am not against industrial action, I believe the conditions of service and pay need to be improved - I don’t believe there is any justification for this five day strike when there is no fvcking government to negotiate with. 
 

The only outcome from the latest action is to let down patients and shit on every non-striking member of the NHS…and lose support in the public thereby watering down any potential settlement. 
 

This isn’t hard to understand. 

[Tommy G]

2 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

You clearly are missing the point here it's not just pay, it's workers conditions too. 

 

If these don't improve then the NHS won't be able to attract or retain staff. Just look at the brain drain occurring right now - it's mind blowing. How many teachers, doctors, nurses scientists and businesses are moving abroad for better pay, benefits, lower working hours and to a functioning country?

 

You either want Britain to be a decent place or don't but this is a big part of it.

Won’t be a popular opinion but no one has strong armed them into medicine, this is a vocation they chose and most people who do it know they aren’t going to become rich working for the NHS. 
 

Every other nhs body has managed to settle with the govt, so have teachers - the 35% is the issue. 
 

I realise this goes back in time but this year private sector pay for the average worker will increase by a cpl of %. We have waived pay rises this year to support the lower paid staff, that would be unheard of 12 months ago. 

[Fox92]

41 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Won’t be a popular opinion but no one has strong armed them into medicine, this is a vocation they chose and most people who do it know they aren’t going to become rich working for the NHS. 

When you first take a job you don't stay on that same pay forever.

 

I see it at the place I work now "why do you argue for a pay rise, you took the job in the first place"... yeah, many years back I took the job and now pay hasn't gone up to match inflation. 

[Tommy G]

10 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

When you first take a job you don't stay on that same pay forever.

 

I see it at the place I work now "why do you argue for a pay rise, you took the job in the first place"... yeah, many years back I took the job and now pay hasn't gone up to match inflation. 

Thanks for letting me know you don’t stay on the same pay forever when you take your first job. 

[ajthefox]

3 hours ago, Tommy G said:

Won’t be a popular opinion but no one has strong armed them into medicine, this is a vocation they chose and most people who do it know they aren’t going to become rich working for the NHS. 
 

Every other nhs body has managed to settle with the govt, so have teachers - the 35% is the issue. 
 

I realise this goes back in time but this year private sector pay for the average worker will increase by a cpl of %. We have waived pay rises this year to support the lower paid staff, that would be unheard of 12 months ago. 

Can't disagree with the latter part of what you've said but the rest of this sentence is completely and utterly irrelevant. If anything it is more of an indictment of our health service than it is any sort of argument against them getting a better increase. 

[UniFox21]

On 27/06/2024 at 07:50, Grebfromgrebland said:

I guess they need to put the pressure on the new government too save our NHS and services. 

They simply won't though. 

Too much money in the private medical settings, many that will no doubt be funding whichever party goes in. 

It's too much of a political football

 

[grobyfox1990]

On 27/06/2024 at 14:16, Tommy G said:

Won’t be a popular opinion but no one has strong armed them into medicine, this is a vocation they chose and most people who do it know they aren’t going to become rich working for the NHS. 
 

Every other nhs body has managed to settle with the govt, so have teachers - the 35% is the issue. 
 

I realise this goes back in time but this year private sector pay for the average worker will increase by a cpl of %. We have waived pay rises this year to support the lower paid staff, that would be unheard of 12 months ago. 

They should though. Teachers and medics are the most important people on the planet. It seems that any old mug with a BA from university of dover and left and right tattooed on the relevant hand can become a teacher now. Don’t want a drop in standards in medics, PAs are already starting to creep in. Just pay them properly 

[grobyfox1990]

5 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

They should though. Teachers and medics are the most important people on the planet. It seems that any old mug with a BA from university of dover and left and right tattooed on the relevant hand can become a teacher now. Don’t want a drop in standards in medics, PAs are already starting to creep in. Just pay them properly 

Just to make it clear 'they should though' is in relation to becoming rich working for the NHS. They should become rich working for the NHS, should be the highest standard of care, attracting the absolute best people across the world. 

[Parafox]

For the record:

 

Who are ‘junior doctors’?

People who have qualified from medical school, but are still training to become specialists, are commonly known as “junior doctors”. During this period, they are doctors who work with patients under the supervision of a more senior doctor, usually a consultant.

It is not true, as one post seems to claim, that people need to do foundation training and specialist training “to become a doctor”. People become doctors when they complete a medical degree, and go on to be provisionally registered with a licence to practise while completing their first year of foundation training.

This post also said that a doctor’s starting salary is £28,274. This is the minimum figure for the 2002 contract, which in England is closed to new entrants, so no new doctors would receive it.

What are they paid?

According to the latest workforce data, there were 72,318 people working in NHS England, whether full- or part-time, within the four broad grades considered to make up “junior doctors”.

• - 7,738 in Foundation Year 1, 2023/24 basic pay £32,397
• - 7,159 in Foundation Year 2, 2023/24 basic pay £37,303
• - 21,239 in Core Training, 2023/24 basic pay £43,922
• - 36,182 as Specialty Registrars, 2023/24 basic pay £55,328-63,162

Doctors receive rates of basic pay according to their position in a more complex system of pay bands, but the amount that each one earns over the course of a year, or per hour for the work they do, varies from doctor to doctor—according to how much overtime they do, where they work, how many unsocial hours they work, and other factors.

In 2023/24, the basic annual pay for a first-year junior doctor in England is £32,397, after the government also announced a pay rise for junior doctors of 6% plus £1,250 each. This began to be paid in autumn 2023, backdated to April.

With the hourly pay formula used by the British Medical Association (BMA) last year, this works out at basic pay for the most junior doctors of £15.53 per hour.

However, the average or typical junior doctor is not in their first year, and therefore earns much more, even in basic pay.

NHS Digital workforce and earnings data suggests that the average full-time junior doctor in the year to September 2023 earned basic pay of about £44,500.

Half of these earnings happened in the previous financial year, so the average for 2023/24 will be higher. This figure also does not include any extra earnings, which typically increase junior doctors’ earnings by about a third, some of which comes from working extra hours.

[kyleolly]

On 27/06/2024 at 07:31, Tommy G said:

35% payrise  

 

 

 

 

100% dickheads

[FoxyPV]

£32k for an F1 to be left as the only Dr on a ward is buttons.

 

This strike is also about unsafe staffing levels which is currently the norm.

 

The timing is good as it will make the news and create talking points for channels to use against politicians.

 

No one can promise anything due to the stage in the election but it still puts pressure on the prospective labour govt 

[grobyfox1990]

1 minute ago, FoxyPV said:

£32k for an F1 to be left as the only Dr on a ward is buttons.

 

This strike is also about unsafe staffing levels which is currently the norm.

 

The timing is good as it will make the news and create talking points for channels to use against politicians.

 

No one can promise anything due to the stage in the election but it still puts pressure on the prospective labour govt 

Pay our new grads more than that and the biggest decision they have to make in a day is whether to put a number in column AD or AE. Before it goes through 2 or 3 layers of review. Absurdly poor money. And then undoubtedly it’ll be the gobsh1te family or patient moaning about poor care. Get what you pay for