Cooper - OUT

[Lad1966]

That may well be the case, but the point is even with or without the transfer window, I still believe sacking him now and bringing in a new manager is our best option.

[damolcfc]

Just feels like we are still having a mini pre season….

[Babylon]

9 hours ago, funkyrobot said:

The continual errors, the indecision and lack of confidence on the pitch are directly attributable in part to how these players are being coached. Steve Cooper is every bit as responsible for that 2nd half display as the players were. 

Hmmmm.... you see I thought we look fine first half, quite assured and confident in fact. It wasn't like we were looking constantly unsure or making constant errors of judgement. The f*** ups came out of the blue each time, and were just terrible terrible indiviudal errors. Collectively, we fell apart after that, and the confidence drained from them... but in other games, we've battled back well and continued to battle, so it's not like that's a recurring theme. 

 

That's not to say he has no responsibility, he's the manager of course he does, but I also have some sympathy as you can't legislate for those errors and there is little he can do to stop someone ballsing up like that. 

[Chelmofox]

33 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Hmmmm.... you see I thought we look fine first half, quite assured and confident in fact. It wasn't like we were looking constantly unsure or making constant errors of judgement. The f*** ups came out of the blue each time, and were just terrible terrible indiviudal errors. Collectively, we fell apart after that, and the confidence drained from them... but in other games, we've battled back well and continued to battle, so it's not like that's a recurring theme. 

 

That's not to say he has no responsibility, he's the manager of course he does, but I also have some sympathy as you can't legislate for those errors and there is little he can do to stop someone ballsing up like that. 

I think its an excuse to say that the second goal drained our confidence. This team has proven a few times that going behind isn't a huge issue for them (certainly had to get used to it). I'm sure it was a sucker punch but there should have been enough confidence from the first half display to at least ensure we competed. 

 

The shift came because Nuno tweaked the tactics to compensate and Cooper had no answer. Sure, the 3rd goal is another mess up but we were horrible around that time and Forest were bossing it. 

[deep blue]

8 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I think its an excuse to say that the second goal drained our confidence. This team has proven a few times that going behind isn't a huge issue for them (certainly had to get used to it). I'm sure it was a sucker punch but there should have been enough confidence from the first half display to at least ensure we competed. 

 

The shift came because Nuno tweaked the tactics to compensate and Cooper had no answer. Sure, the 3rd goal is another mess up but we were horrible around that time and Forest were bossing it. 

Exactly.  In the 2nd half it was men v boys.  They always seemed to have well enough men in defence to cope with our attacks, but whenever they attacked they tended to steam out from defence in unison and overwhelm our defence.  It's as if they sniffed out our vulnerable moments and attacked ruthlessly as a unit.

 

That can only be explained by on-field managerial adjustments to their system.

[Pliskin]

48 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Hmmmm.... you see I thought we look fine first half, quite assured and confident in fact. It wasn't like we were looking constantly unsure or making constant errors of judgement. The f*** ups came out of the blue each time, and were just terrible terrible indiviudal errors. Collectively, we fell apart after that, and the confidence drained from them... but in other games, we've battled back well and continued to battle, so it's not like that's a recurring theme. 

 

That's not to say he has no responsibility, he's the manager of course he does, but I also have some sympathy as you can't legislate for those errors and there is little he can do to stop someone ballsing up like that. 

I don’t know if the it was more to go with our shape somewhat combatted Forests, Yates even made comments himself saying that it caught them by surprise, but then second half Forest come out and exploit the system straight away. 
 

We looked okay, but I felt the game was on a knifes edge and I just had an uneasy feeling that Forest would be able to gain an advantage with a minor tweak. The problem I have with people saying individual errors aren’t on Cooper, they are…. Forest still had the better of the first half in my opinion, this was because they are a well drilled team, they all know what they’re doing, they have set patterns of play and cycle through them depending on the scenario they’re presented with. We didn’t seem to have that, we either looked to get the ball to the wide players or Bounanotte and hope they force something, or we looked to play the ball into winks and get forward through him. It worked from time to time in the first half, but then second half it didn’t because Forest sussed it out. Problem is then, if that isn’t working then the players will be a little bit stuck, and that was evident I thought, because the players were second guessing themselves taking too make touches, making the wrong passes and taking upon themselves to dribble through the entire team. 
 

With this, errors happen, because they’re trying to think of their next move, get pressed or a passing lane is cut off, and they force the issue any way or just switch off. There is definitely a link between a lack of innovation from a coach and mistakes. There’s been lots of talk about Coopers relaxed style of management, and I think this team need a rocket up their arse and clear instruction over an all involved process. 
 

 

[joachim1965]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Hmmmm.... you see I thought we look fine first half, quite assured and confident in fact. It wasn't like we were looking constantly unsure or making constant errors of judgement. The f*** ups came out of the blue each time, and were just terrible terrible indiviudal errors. Collectively, we fell apart after that, and the confidence drained from them... but in other games, we've battled back well and continued to battle, so it's not like that's a recurring theme. 

 

That's not to say he has no responsibility, he's the manager of course he does, but I also have some sympathy as you can't legislate for those errors and there is little he can do to stop someone ballsing up like that. 

True, you certainly cannot plan for balls ups at the back, but the lack of of tactical awareness, or the ability to react when the opposition changes to nullify your threat,  is the biggest balls up.

[Guest Lako42]

This individual errors nonsense is just a red herring. 

 

We were making so many errors in critical areas of the pitch because Forest were able to put us into those situations because of the change they made and the nonsensical change that we made. 

 

The possibility of those errors occurring was increased through action.

 

It's why our XGA is ****ing horrible 

[VLC86]

I’d be really curious to know exactly what Cooper said to them at half time because from the kick off we completely crumbled. 

[FOXSE]

3 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

This individual errors nonsense is just a red herring. 

 

We were making so many errors in critical areas of the pitch because Forest were able to put us into those situations because of the change they made and the nonsensical change that we made. 

 

The possibility of those errors occurring was increased through action.

 

It's why our XGA is ****ing horrible 

The thing that stood out for me was the criticism of our wingers, and the criticism of our defenders handling wingers.

 

It looked to me though, that every time say fatawu got the ball and moved towards a defender there were usually two in attendance, with sometime a third on hand in case he somehow got through.

 

Time and again, their wingers seemed to just have one defender to face, and if they got past them, they seemed to be driving straight at our box, with no one near them. No back up whatsoever. That must be a tactics issue, right?

[RumbleFox]

The underlying stats are abhorrent. We “should” be bottom two based on changes created/conceded. Obviously yes, stats aren’t everything, but it’s very worrying. It’s highly, highly improbable that a team overachieves its xG/xGC consistently all season.

 

I actually hate to see any manger sacked, Cooper seems a decent guy and I’d love him to come good but the signs aren’t great. 

Edited 28 October 2024 by RumbleFox

[TheGoldenGod]

Didn't expect a win vs Forest but that 2nd half performance was abhorrent so unfortunately Ipswich is a must win, they are pony! Lose that and get rid of him because the players desperately want to play Enzo ball and he's got no idea how to play it.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Hmmmm.... you see I thought we look fine first half, quite assured and confident in fact. It wasn't like we were looking constantly unsure or making constant errors of judgement. The f*** ups came out of the blue each time, and were just terrible terrible indiviudal errors. Collectively, we fell apart after that, and the confidence drained from them... but in other games, we've battled back well and continued to battle, so it's not like that's a recurring theme. 

 

That's not to say he has no responsibility, he's the manager of course he does, but I also have some sympathy as you can't legislate for those errors and there is little he can do to stop someone ballsing up like that. 

Perhaps the role of the manager in this game is highlighted by the fact that JJ - who made the error for the first goal - probably shouldn’t have started in the first place based on abject previous displays.

[Chelmofox]

6 minutes ago, FOXSE said:

The thing that stood out for me was the criticism of our wingers, and the criticism of our defenders handling wingers.

 

It looked to me though, that every time say fatawu got the ball and moved towards a defender there were usually two in attendance, with sometime a third on hand in case he somehow got through.

 

Time and again, their wingers seemed to just have one defender to face, and if they got past them, they seemed to be driving straight at our box, with no one near them. No back up whatsoever. That must be a tactics issue, right?

Yes. Forest were excellent defensively and were happy to press hard and counter us. They had about 36% possession but twice as many shots and big chances. 

 

The thing that stood out to me was the pace and accuracy their wingers had, which meant they could easily exploit one of JJ or Riccy on the counter. Just better players than us, and our system played into their hands.

[winteriscoming]

14 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

I’d be really curious to know exactly what Cooper said to them at half time because from the kick off we completely crumbled. 

Not just the Forest game. 
Bournemouth was the same. 

[VLC86]

Just now, winteriscoming said:

Not just the Forest game. 
Bournemouth was the same. 

Agreed, but not to the same extent.

 

Buonanotte literally nearly ****ed up the kick off and we concede after a minute. I recon he’s completely confused everyone with something not rehearsed or been so laid back the players came out completely unprepared.

[Pliskin]

18 minutes ago, VLC86 said:

I’d be really curious to know exactly what Cooper said to them at half time because from the kick off we completely crumbled. 

I’d also like to know what instructions the players get when we seem to be struggling or lose control of the game. Because it just seems to be that Buonanotte just tries to take the world on by himself……. As soon as the game plan goes out the window (even if there is one) we just resort to chaos, chaotic defending and chaotic attack, there’s no finesse or apparently plan. And there’s no real excuse when some of these players have European experience. Which some people are conveniently forgetting. 

[Babylon]

58 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

True, you certainly cannot plan for balls ups at the back, but the lack of of tactical awareness, or the ability to react when the opposition changes to nullify your threat,  is the biggest balls up.

And I don't disagree with that. 

[Babylon]

28 minutes ago, Lako42 said:

This individual errors nonsense is just a red herring. 

 

We were making so many errors in critical areas of the pitch because Forest were able to put us into those situations because of the change they made and the nonsensical change that we made. 

 

The possibility of those errors occurring was increased through action.

 

It's why our XGA is ****ing horrible 

Sorry but that's just garbage, that first goal was three errors Ricardo, Facundo and Justin. All three siuations weren't and shouldn't have been a threat, we quite simply had three chances to clear a barely threatening situation and failed to do so. There was no big change made at that point. 

 

Then the second half, there shouldn't have even been a threat for the second goal. We turned our own posession into a goal for them, by not doing the absolute basics and just giving it away. The Forest change didn't make Winks and Fatawu was it, totally cock up in the middle of the pitch. 

 

Sure what came afterwards was a total mess. But trying to make out that those two f*** ups were created in some way due to a change in how they were playing is laughable. 

[Guest Lako42]

Just now, Babylon said:

Sorry but that's just garbage, that first goal was three errors Ricardo, Facundo and Justin. All three siuations weren't and shouldn't have been a threat, we quite simply had three chances to clear a barely threatening situation and failed to do so. There was no big change made at that point. 

 

Then the second half, there shouldn't have even been a threat for the second goal. We turned our own posession into a goal for them, by not doing the absolute basics and just giving it away. The Forest change didn't make Winks and Fatawu was it, totally cock up in the middle of the pitch. 

 

Sure what came afterwards was a total mess. But trying to make out that those two f*** ups were created in some way due to a change in how they were playing is laughable. 

The first goal fair enough, I should have made clear it was the 2nd and 3rd, both of which were impacted by the way we were playing. 

 

 

[Babylon]

22 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

Perhaps the role of the manager in this game is highlighted by the fact that JJ - who made the error for the first goal - probably shouldn’t have started in the first place based on abject previous displays.

Ricardo made the first error, HE put us into that situation. Then Facundo decided to try and dribble out of defence when he could of cleared, which compounded Ricardo's error... then finally Justin failed to clear, which compounded further the first two errors. They are all culpable on that one. 

[foxinsocks]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Ricardo made the first error, HE put us into that situation. Then Facundo decided to try and dribble out of defence when he could of cleared, which compounded Ricardo's error... then finally Justin failed to clear, which compounded further the first two errors. They are all culpable on that one. 

indeed the third goal could easily have been cleared by faes.  They need to adopt a safety first approach and not try to be to clever.

(nb Facundo doesn't get his head up and find a pass very often - this is a simple message he is either not being given or he is ignoring)

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Ricardo made the first error, HE put us into that situation. Then Facundo decided to try and dribble out of defence when he could have cleared, which compounded Ricardo's error... then finally Justin failed to clear, which compounded further the first two errors. They are all culpable on that one. 

Fair enough. But it hardly screams competent coaching…!

[Aus Fox]

3 hours ago, Lad1966 said:

That may well be the case, but the point is even with or without the transfer window, I still believe sacking him now and bringing in a new manager is our best option.

Don’t you think us sacking a manger after 9 games who isn’t woefully underperforming compared to expectations would put off potential new managers coming in?

How many top managers want to come and work for a trigger happy board who sack so quickly? 
 

[Lad1966]

That’s the dilemma, he’s had exceeded my expecting, but to be fair they were pretty low. I just feel with a more accomplished coach we could have gained us more points