Ruud out - has to go

[Fox85]

5 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

We need to change the formation for starters, Winks and Soumare are not required esp with Bilal and Facundo thats like 4 Mids who do the same job

 

I'd try something like this 

 

                            Mads

           Faes Okoli Vesterguard

Justin                                            VK

           Facundo  Skipp    Bilal 

                   

               Vardy      Daka

Get rid of skipp and sell him to a league 2 club at an offer of their choosing.

 

He isn't even good enough for the development squad.

 

I'd rather have Hamza there than skipp

[5waller5]

5 hours ago, whoareyaaa said:

We need to change the formation for starters, Winks and Soumare are not required esp with Bilal and Facundo thats like 4 Mids who do the same job

 

I'd try something like this 

 

                            Mads

           Faes Okoli Vesterguard

Justin                                            VK

           Facundo  Skipp    Bilal 

                   

               Vardy      Daka

This is just about the only dice Ruud hasn’t rolled to be fair to him. It seems like a natural thing to try

[whoareyaaa]

Just now, Fox85 said:

Get rid of skipp and sell him to a league 2 club at an offer of their choosing.

 

He isn't even good enough for the development squad.

 

I'd rather have Hamza there than skipp

Hamza  he is a complete donkey.

 

I think Skipp would do well if he was the main DM no worse than Soumare or Winks

[Mickyblueeyes]

You can’t play progressive football unless you have the technical players to do it. We don’t.

 

You can’t play counter attacking football unless you have the defensive AND pace on transition to do it. We don’t. 
 

Launch it long to Ayew is therefore the bad answer.

[Leicesterpool]

Blaming Ruud under the current board and set of players is very harsh. 

[Fox85]

3 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

Hamza  he is a complete donkey.

 

I think Skipp would do well if he was the main DM no worse than Soumare or Winks

Skipp is up there with one of the worse midfielders the club has ever had.

 

Absolute garbage.

 

If a player doesn't stand out in this team he isn't good enough for the premier league let alone a mid table championship side.

 

We would be best just to do a whole sale on 70% of the squad every plaer for 3million or less and start again

[HarryDee8]

Can't believe we missed out on Moyes 

[dooflip]

3 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

You can’t play progressive football unless you have the technical players to do it. We don’t.

 

You can’t play counter attacking football unless you have the defensive AND pace on transition to do it. We don’t. 
 

Launch it long to Ayew is therefore the bad answer.

This is exactly it. I think the appointment of cooper and the summer window has contributed massively to this as we changed our approach to what sort of players we wanted. As a result we’ve ended up with a squad that can do neither the style from before the summer, or the style cooper wanted to bring in. And therefore we are up the creek without a paddle because the squad are literally incapable of being effective in any tactic that would see us get some points. It’s an absolute shambles.

[Chrysalis]

9 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

This is the choice I never understand.
 

It’s like the only way to win is play horrible football, and yet almost every example of successful sides play “attractive” football.

 

At worst they aren’t mutually exclusive, and at best I’d argue they are linked

I have seen a fair few teams who do well without doing fancy football, including ourselves.

 

However even if the end goal is playing attractive football, you have to learn to walk before you can run, we were struggling it with it last season, so to think we could make it work the season after in a higher season with minimal funding has no logic to it. 

You play the way you need to get results, whilst building a better squad in the back ground, then when the squad is ready and the team is settled in the division, then you can make a transition.

[Nolucklcfc]

40 minutes ago, TrentFox said:

Yes! One that can organise a defence. We are currently one win away from being out of the drop zone. One win. This isn’t over. We all just feel like it is because performances and results are sooooooo poor. Start putting up

some clean sheets and the wins will happen. Appointing an inexperienced, attack-minded coach was insane. Apart from

a few strange people on here, most could see that what we’ve now got was extremely likely to happen. 

Thing is we have been better defensively (yesterday aside) and structurally. We just don’t have very good defenders. You can’t coach the naivety and lack of concentration in our defending. 

[inckley fox]

48 minutes ago, Verumex said:

So no-one else noticing that the run of bad form comes immediately after both Ndidi and Hermansen get injured? 

 

We had a run of bad form last year too around this time. I wonder what happened then...

 

Oh yeah, Ndidi was injured. 

 

Almost like there's a direct pattern and cause and effect there, that has absolutely nothing to do with the manager. 

 

Everyone here is delusional if they think that the manager is the weak link.

You're suggesting that poor results last season and this have nothing to do with the manager and everything to do with Ndidi. I think there's a risk of falling into the trap of believing that there are one or two straightforward magical solutions to our plight. Wilf's form trailed off for several seasons towards the end of our last PL spell, and he was a regular in the relegated side. We did drop off midway through last season, but form was mixed even after his return (we lost 5 of the 12 games he started). He'd been up and down this season, to my eyes at least.

 

I haven't seen enough to believe that the boss is the weak link either - I just feel the squad is poor, unsettled and that two different managers haven't had the time or circumstances to effect change. But I'd be wary of thinking that a manager was entirely guiltless and helpless, or that we're the only ones to suffer key injuries. Mads was a huge loss, but we couldn't have banked on him continuing to work miracles. And some of Ruud's decision-making, in spite of the difficult circumstances, can be questioned.

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

You can’t play progressive football unless you have the technical players to do it. We don’t.

 

Oh **** me, are we back with this nonsense? 

 

Yes we do. 

 

For a start, Bilal and Facundo are excellent, as is Winks, Soumaré actually has fantastic technical ability when he's on it, Mavididi is a very skillful player, even Ayew and BDCR are technically capable enough to play the football Enzo coached. 

 

And we saw a good manager could even get mileage out of Hamza and Wilf playing progressive football. 

 

The idea that you need a team full of Ronaldinhos is a load of rubbish. 

 

What you need above all else if you want to play progressive, possession based football is good coaching. It's a highly structured, system based way of playing and good coaching and good patterns of play are absolutely key. Watch Man City at their best, that isn't spontaneity, it's extremely good organisation. 

 

Cooper was absolutely abysmal and it's not really Ruud's strength either. 

 

You can say something similar about defending, too. It's about organisation and coaching just as its about the individual qualities of the players. You gave our current squad a full pre season working with Diego Simeone and you'd see significant improvement. Not suggesting they'd be the best defence in the league but capable of a few more clean sheets for sure. 

 

We don't have a perfect squad. At all. I'm not suggesting we do. But this idea that it's all hopeless and our players aren't good enough and we're doomed with them is just nonsense. But they absolutely do need solid direction, instruction and leadership and they still haven't had it since Enzo left. 

 

We replaced Enzo with a manager who wasn't good enough and then we replaced him with a manager who isn't good enough but is famous. 

 

[The Doctor]

15 minutes ago, trooky said:

I would love to know how you think RVN is shooting himself in the foot?

 

Who is all this talent he's not playing? 

 

He makes changes when we're losing to get back in the game, its not his fault that our options are ****ing crap. 

 

his subs are often questionable. Brings BEK off at around the same time every match while he's running the show as much as we're putting one on, leaves on very ineffective wingers. It's very much like how Rodgers always seemed to have his subs preplanned and wasn't reacting at all to what was happening on the pitch. 

[cityfanlee23]

2 hours ago, Chelmofox said:

I'm going to put my hand up here and open myself up to ridicule, but before i do, this is just my opinion based on what I see and how i read the stats. 

 

I think the overall play has been better under Ruud. I also think it's taken some bottle for him to try and create that identity mid season, especially when there have been some key injuries during a very busy winter period.  The situation around goalkeepers is something i wouldn't have wished on any incoming manager. I felt we outplayed Palace in the 1st half and they didn't 'batter' us in the 2nd, and if you look at the stats for the Fulham game, we did a very good job on containing them in the 1st half whilst having some good chances ourselves.  The stats show me Fulham had 0 big chances in the 1st half and we had 2 shots on target - work has clearly been done here.  I felt we gave a very good account of ourselves against Man City and Liverpool.  He's also got the best out of BEK and realised that Facundo is a bit of a liability when he gives the ball away all the time.  If Ruud had been given pre season and the summer transfer window, I would put money on us playing ok and the fans not panicking.

 

But football is a results oriented business, and he has come into a team that clearly has issues from board level done to the squad.  I'm convinced Ruud isn't the reason why Vardy started 3 games in 1 week, and i'm also convinced that in the last week or so the realisation about what we can actually do in the transfer has really hit home. Maybe an experienced 'bastard' coming in was the answer.

 

The biggest problem with have now is the part of our game that was getting Cooper out of jail has deserted us. I think most of us looked at the first half of the season and felt it wasn't sustainable for us to be as clinical as we were. We are now creating more chances but not converting anything, we don't have Mads getting us out of jail.

No ridicule from me, I do think in transition we have improved, but defensively and offensively we seem to be making more individual errors than ever despite often being setup in a better structure, why is that? The thing that really made life difficult under cooper was the constant errors, how has that got worse when the play generally has improved?

The club have loads of issues, and Ruud isn't the biggest. 
My thought process is really that we aren't going to be saved by the January window, Ruud needs to prove he can improve the players at his disposal, the shape and system have improved, but the players are not improving apart from a few like Soumare, I'd argue even Buonanotte is having a bad patch where he's struggling to do anything effective right now, hopefully, that's just a patch and not the system working against him. 

If we are continuing with one eye on the championship, Ruud needs to prove to us NOW that he has the capacity to take us down, stick with us (maybe he gets relegated and walks, and sticking with him was a waste of time?) but that he can rebuild us and build a really solid football foundation, the results speak for themselves, he is struggling to find a way to plug the gaps, and he's not giving me much confidence that if we go down, have zero money to spend, and points deductions, that he's going to be able to scrape us up. I'm not saying he can't do it, but just that he isn't proving he can right now. 

To me so far he hasn't seemed like much of a leader, from his press conferences, his lack of demanding to bring personnel into the coaching staff (If that's what he wants) his touchline mannerism, his in game management with subs etc, he just doesn't fill me with any confidence, the fact players were just walking off the pitch yesterday not acknowledging the fans just because the fans are frustrated is the opposite of a siege mentality that we need if we are to have a prayer of staying up. 

When the board, coaches, scouts, ownership and players are underperforming, we need a manager to step up the to plate and drag the club forward, right now Ruud just doesn't inspire me like that. 
I keep banging on about managers like Danny Rohl, but he's a perfect example of the board and the ownership being an absolute circus, the first thing Danny did when he came in, he created a siege-like mentality, and he's effectively created a bubble, and inside it are the coaches, players and fans, and they are performing for each other despite the absolute circus upstairs. 

[filbertway]

15 minutes ago, trooky said:

I would love to know how you think RVN is shooting himself in the foot?

 

Who is all this talent he's not playing? 

 

He makes changes when we're losing to get back in the game, its not his fault that our options are ****ing crap. 

 

 

Bringing off one of his best attacking players for a league two player.

Not rotating his aging striker.

Sticking to one system which means playing a midfield 2 that offers almost no protection to the defence.

 

They're a few examples of what I'm talking about.

 

I'm assuming you think he's got everything spot on so far then if you don't think he's made any errors of judgement yet?

[Corky]

10 minutes ago, HarryDee8 said:

Can't believe we missed out on Moyes 

Didn't want the job.

[South Shire Fox]

17 minutes ago, Fox85 said:

Get rid of skipp and sell him to a league 2 club at an offer of their choosing.

 

He isn't even good enough for the development squad.

 

I'd rather have Hamza there than skipp

Skipp was one of the best players in the Championship at Norwich a few years ago. Lets not go over board ffs

[st albans fox]

Not sure what they’re doing in training but when VK, BEK and mavs were with possession on the left side there seemed to be no pre conceived pattern of play to take us to a cross from behind their full back or to break into the penalty area. Fulham on their left side had many as we saw through the game. (And changing their wide players too ).  
 

 

[Mr.Bingles]

What’s RVN meant to do when one of the best keepers in the bottom half is injured, Ricardo is injured leaving a low confidence JJ to **** up each week, he’s having to use a 38 year old striker, Fatawu is injured , so is Ndidi. 
 

the squad is much weaker than the one that got relegated. We bought poorly in the summer! 25 million for Skip!!! FFS! 
 

and now it looks like RVN was told a lie about getting players in. If he’s not got the tools to succeed it’s not his fault. This is ALL on Top & Rudkin! Enzo could see what was going on and jumped ship 

Edited 19 January by Mr.Bingles

[Filbert Fireworks]

We've lost 7games in a row and every week RVN rolls out the same formation, same tactics, same players when it isnt working. 

 

Our squad could stay up we've just had two duds as managers. 

 

Our defensers are two old and slow Vesty or too rash faes to play 2CBs but we roll it out every week and are suprised we get the same defensive results each week

Need to move to 3atb for the extra cover. both vesty and faes can play a pass and coady or okoli would be fine. Takes the pressure off our shit left and right backs too. 

 

We can play on the break with facundo and bilal. Up top is an issue but roatate vardy daka mavididi. Surely 1 of them can do it. 

 

4231 just isn't working. 

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, South Shire Fox said:

Skipp was one of the best players in the Championship at Norwich a few years ago. Lets not go over board ffs

It’s not like he’s getting lots of game time to get into any rhythm. Some players need that. 
he maybe in poor form, lacking confidence -  he may need more game time but he’s not nearly as bad as some are making out on here. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Oh **** me, are we back with this nonsense? 

 

Yes we do. 

 

For a start, Bilal and Facundo are excellent, as is Winks, Soumaré actually has fantastic technical ability when he's on it, Mavididi is a very skillful player, even Ayew and BDCR are technically capable enough to play the football Enzo coached. 

 

And we saw a good manager could even get mileage out of Hamza and Wilf playing progressive football. 

 

The idea that you need a team full of Ronaldinhos is a load of rubbish. 

 

What you need above all else if you want to play progressive, possession based football is good coaching. It's a highly structured, system based way of playing and good coaching and good patterns of play are absolutely key. Watch Man City at their best, that isn't spontaneity, it's extremely good organisation. 

 

Cooper was absolutely abysmal and it's not really Ruud's strength either. 

 

You can say something similar about defending, too. It's about organisation and coaching just as its about the individual qualities of the players. You gave our current squad a full pre season working with Diego Simeone and you'd see significant improvement. Not suggesting they'd be the best defence in the league but capable of a few more clean sheets for sure. 

 

We don't have a perfect squad. At all. I'm not suggesting we do. But this idea that it's all hopeless and our players aren't good enough and we're doomed with them is just nonsense. But they absolutely do need solid direction, instruction and leadership and they still haven't had it since Enzo left. 

 

We replaced Enzo with a manager who wasn't good enough and then we replaced him with a manager who isn't good enough but is famous. 

 

7 defeats in a row. Second from bottom and a second relegation in 3 years says otherwise. 
 

You coach what you’re given. With better players but lacking tactical ability, even Puel struggled until we replaced them with better technical players. Same with Bournemouth. Same with Brighton. They can all go out and play in a structured way but the reality is, where that technical ability is lacking, the style will fail as a result. 
 

People are forgetting that despite Ruud’s inexperience, since Liverpool we have had Brian Barry Murphy in as first team coach - a highly rated, ingrained with Pep’s style and a good friend of Enzo. He has been with these players, coaching them daily. As an assistant, he’s probably exactly what we needed. 
 

Let me rephrase it, this squad is not good enough to play progressive football effectively at this level. Quite simply, I have no idea what style will work with them 

 

[Walshie is God]

Not sure getting rid of RVN is the answer. The club has been rotten and in a downward spiral before we won the Fa cup. 

The players look like they can't be arsed, but when the board clearly can't be arsed it doesn't exactly inspire you. 

They say they learnt from the last relegation, they learnt nothing. This squad is worse than what came up. 

How are we supposed to attract new players when it's clear the club is in a real mess. 

It's only my opinion but we are sinking without trace and it starts and stops with Top. Unfortunately he hasn't got what his dad had and leaving the running of the club to the morons he has was only ever going to end one way

RIP Leicester city

Edited 19 January by Walshie is God

[inckley fox]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

 

Oh **** me, are we back with this nonsense? 

 

Yes we do. 

 

For a start, Bilal and Facundo are excellent, as is Winks, Soumaré actually has fantastic technical ability when he's on it, Mavididi is a very skillful player, even Ayew and BDCR are technically capable enough to play the football Enzo coached. 

 

And we saw a good manager could even get mileage out of Hamza and Wilf playing progressive football. 

 

The idea that you need a team full of Ronaldinhos is a load of rubbish. 

 

What you need above all else if you want to play progressive, possession based football is good coaching. It's a highly structured, system based way of playing and good coaching and good patterns of play are absolutely key. Watch Man City at their best, that isn't spontaneity, it's extremely good organisation. 

 

Cooper was absolutely abysmal and it's not really Ruud's strength either. 

 

You can say something similar about defending, too. It's about organisation and coaching just as its about the individual qualities of the players. You gave our current squad a full pre season working with Diego Simeone and you'd see significant improvement. Not suggesting they'd be the best defence in the league but capable of a few more clean sheets for sure. 

 

We don't have a perfect squad. At all. I'm not suggesting we do. But this idea that it's all hopeless and our players aren't good enough and we're doomed with them is just nonsense. But they absolutely do need solid direction, instruction and leadership and they still haven't had it since Enzo left. 

 

We replaced Enzo with a manager who wasn't good enough and then we replaced him with a manager who isn't good enough but is famous. 

 

I honestly think you're wrong here. We were getting undone in the FLC in the second half of last season and sides were picking holes in our shape. It's all very well saying that you just need good coaching to make it work at this level - better than, say, Parker when he went down playing 'the right way', or Kompany, or Martin at Southampton, or countless others - but those coaches who can pull off purists' football with limited options are few and far between. My gut instinct was that we'd have been mauled at this level if we'd played the Enzo way, and the closer we've edged towards it under Ruud, the worse the results have been.

 

Yes, it can be done, but I was unconvinced last season that our options were all that well suited to possession football at a higher level. I do think you need a calibre of technical player that goes sone way beyond some of those individuals you listed (Mavididi, Reid, Ayew, Winks). I think it's quite a basic argument to say that our big problem has been appointing two crap managers. Neither have had the time to truly show that, but we know full well that many of these players got relegated the last time they were in the top flight, that recruitment has been iffy for years, and that the club has been a bit of a shambles behind the scenes. These would all be way higher up on my list of concerns, and reasons for failure, than either manager (though, like you, I was pretty unimpressed by both appointments) or the idea that we're not playing football the Enzo way.

[kermagant]

RVN has been a disaster.

 

Cooper knew how to stay in the league, he did it with Forest. Since he left it’s been very predictably downhill.