General News

[Bilo]

1 minute ago, Salisbury Fox said:

I’m not sure I agree with you there, as the island building and aggressive maritime manoeuvres indicates otherwise.

It's largely sabre rattling and posturing. No invasion or shots fired.

 

Contrast that with Russia who have been pretty much perpetually involved in either an invasion or intervention throughout the century.

[Tommy G]

Some very interesting points and debate here with no one getting personal, must be a Foxestalk record 

[Bilo]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Doesn’t it also have open territorial disputes with both Tibet and India ?

And some horrific policies towards Uyghurs in Xinjiang.

 

It obviously isn't a haven of peace and tolerance, but it's also miles off being as aggressive, imperialistic and expansionist as Russia.

[bovril]

3 minutes ago, Bilo said:

We do.

 

Cultural factors, such as distrust of authority and desire for individual liberty, are huge reasons why the UK never went fully authoritarian in the 1930s while the likes of Germany, Italy and Spain did, despite facing many of the same challenges and issues.

 

Of course, Brexit came largely from the same tradition mixed in with traditional British xenophobia and exceptionalism. 

 

MAGA is an interesting one. It's certainly come from American exceptionalism and economic classical liberalism, but I do feel as though poor education and susceptibly to disinformation have played their part.

MAGA I think comes from American paranoia. Paranoia that someone (the monarchy, Catholics, socialists) is coming to take away your hard won Anglo-Prot freedoms. Along with the belief that the poor and disadvantaged simply need to work harder. 

 

Brexit is a manifestation of Britain's Europhobia and sense of superiority which has some of the same Anglo-Protestant roots as America's politics, as well as from our previous role as global hegemon.

 

This is probably just my thing though in the same way that climate change is Mac's thing and Lucy Letby is Wymsey's thing. I'm still upset at the reformation. 

[Dunge]

6 minutes ago, bovril said:

MAGA I think comes from American paranoia. Paranoia that someone (the monarchy, Catholics, socialists) is coming to take away your hard won Anglo-Prot freedoms. Along with the belief that the poor and disadvantaged simply need to work harder. 

 

Brexit is a manifestation of Britain's Europhobia and sense of superiority which has some of the same Anglo-Protestant roots as America's politics, as well as from our previous role as global hegemon.

 

This is probably just my thing though in the same way that climate change is Mac's thing and Lucy Letby is Wymsey's thing. I'm still upset at the reformation. 

I think it was Bonnie Greer who said that what Americans want, more than anything, is to feel safe. It’s why 9/11 shook them up so much.

 

Now we see Trump actively jumping at any threat of Russian nukes or WWIII. He’s terrified of it and running from it. And a lot of Americans will quietly agree with him.

[bovril]

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think it was Bonnie Greer who said that what Americans want, more than anything, is to feel safe. It’s why 9/11 shook them up so much.

 

Now we see Trump actively jumping at any threat of Russian nukes or WWIII. He’s terrified of it and running from it. And a lot of Americans will quietly agree with him.

Yes and I think that theme of the rest of the world crashing into our little idyll - through terrorism, immigration or simply seeing more of what's happening in the world through social media - is a big driver of the anxiety and neo reactionary politics we see particularly in the Anglosphere.

[Bilo]

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think it was Bonnie Greer who said that what Americans want, more than anything, is to feel safe. It’s why 9/11 shook them up so much.

 

Now we see Trump actively jumping at any threat of Russian nukes or WWIII. He’s terrified of it and running from it. And a lot of Americans will quietly agree with him.

They're also very militaristic and patriotic, and despise weakness.

 

Once they see Trump as weak and as someone who is causing them embarrassment, you can see them begin to turn.

[Zear0]

31 minutes ago, Tommy G said:

Some very interesting points and debate here with no one getting personal, must be a Foxestalk record 

Nob

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Bilo said:

I think 'the long game' pretty much sums Starmer up. He played it to perfection over Partygate and his whole strategy to win the GE from taking over as Labour leader was based on patiently and pragmatically building a case. If you want quick wins, he isn't your man. If you're prepared to wait for results however...

Here'shoping that approach this time is both required and effective, then. There's rather a lot at stake.

 

54 minutes ago, Bilo said:

An ANZAC and EU relationship with Britain either closely aligned or fully reintegrated would be a nightmare for the US. And that's before you consider this alliance having a relationship with China.

I think an alliance of European, Scandinavian and ANZAC nations could represent a pretty powerful bloc, even without the Chinese.

[leicsmac]

27 minutes ago, bovril said:

MAGA I think comes from American paranoia. Paranoia that someone (the monarchy, Catholics, socialists) is coming to take away your hard won Anglo-Prot freedoms. Along with the belief that the poor and disadvantaged simply need to work harder. 

 

Brexit is a manifestation of Britain's Europhobia and sense of superiority which has some of the same Anglo-Protestant roots as America's politics, as well as from our previous role as global hegemon.

 

This is probably just my thing though in the same way that climate change is Mac's thing and Lucy Letby is Wymsey's thing. I'm still upset at the reformation. 

Oi, I also go on about rockets, international rugby and cricket too, cheeky bastard.

 

In all seriousness though, I think you're spot on with this.

 

14 minutes ago, bovril said:

Yes and I think that theme of the rest of the world crashing into our little idyll - through terrorism, immigration or simply seeing more of what's happening in the world through social media - is a big driver of the anxiety and neo reactionary politics we see particularly in the Anglosphere.

And the darkly ironic thing is that the more the Anglosphere tries to prevent that "rest of the world crashing in" through those reactionary politics, the more likely they make it to happen in the form of an utterly cataclysmic tsunami in the future.

[Bilo]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think an alliance of European, Scandinavian and ANZAC nations could represent a pretty powerful bloc, even without the Chinese.

Agree. The most educated, skilled and developed countries on the planet that speak English, still the lingua franca of international trade, as either a first or second language. That level of education, skill, development and expertise would be an extremely formidable trading bloc, particularly in terms of services and specialist goods.

[Dahnsouff]

Question is, if Europe makes a stand and send troops to Ukraine - what happens?

Nuclear exchanges? Putin gets assistance from the US? 

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Question is, if Europe makes a stand and send troops to Ukraine - what happens?

Nuclear exchanges? Putin gets assistance from the US? 

I think that would depend on, as it does now, what Russia in general and Putin in particular define as "the survival of the state is threatened".

[Dunge]

12 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Question is, if Europe makes a stand and send troops to Ukraine - what happens?

Nuclear exchanges? Putin gets assistance from the US? 

I don’t think that’s on the cards anyway. The only ones who have even mooted that in terms of the current conflict is France, and that met with internal opposition. And that was with potential US backing.

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I think that would depend on, as it does now, what Russia in general and Putin in particular define as "the survival of the state is threatened".

 

1 minute ago, Dunge said:

I don’t think that’s on the cards anyway. The only ones who have even mooted that in terms of the current conflict is France, and that met with internal opposition. And that was with potential US backing.

I shall call one of you Neville and the other Chamberlain.. (I jest)

 

This episodic flexing of power needs to be called out at some point, and I don`t necessarily mean boots on the ground, but it also should not stand without some allied response.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I don’t think that’s on the cards anyway. The only ones who have even mooted that in terms of the current conflict is France, and that met with internal opposition. And that was with potential US backing.

Yeah, that too.

 

As an additional detail, both Russia and China have spent a lot of time and effort creating and nurturing the BRICS bloc as a rival to the Western powers. I wonder how that bloc will hold if Russia seeks to add the tacit support of an isolationist but still anti-China US to it.

[Dunge]

24 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

 

I shall call one of you Neville and the other Chamberlain.. (I jest)

 

This episodic flexing of power needs to be called out at some point, and I don`t necessarily mean boots on the ground, but it also should not stand without some allied response.

We’ll be needing some actual weight before we start throwing it around.

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, Dunge said:

We’ll be needing some actual weight before we start throwing it around.

What weight does Putin have? 3 years suggests not a massive amount. There is of course  a risk of escalation, but if Europe enters Ukraine as peace keepers, the only complaint can be the point @leicsmac raised about perceived ownership from Russia.

[Bilo]

RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM. 1992 TO PRESENT.

 

Invades Moldova 1992.

 

Signs Budapest Memorandum - Ukraine give up nukes ⇔ Security Assurance 1994.

 

Invades Chechnya 1994. 

 

Loses Chechen War. Khasavyurt Accords signed 1996. Signs peace treaty 1997.

 

Invades Chechnya again 1999. Murders 1/4 of population, most survivors exiled.

 

Cyber attacks Baltics 2007.

 

Invades Georgia 2008.

 

Invades Ukraine 2014. Expels majority of Crimean Tartars from homeland.

 

Murders Syrians on Assad' behalf 2015.

 

Wagner military activity, Libya 2017

 

Wagner military activity, Sudan 2017.

 

Wagner military activity, Central African Republic 2018.

 

Wagner military activity, Mozambique 2019

 

Wagner military activity, Mali 2021.

 

Wagner military activity, Burkina Faso 2022

 

Invades Ukraine again 2022.

 

Cyber attacks Baltics again 2022.

 

Attacks Baltic electrical infrastructure 2025 (undersea cables cut).

 

USA/Israel/China/Arab Bloc refuse to condemn Russian invasion, 2025.

Edited 1 March by Bilo

[nnfox]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Question is, if Europe makes a stand and send troops to Ukraine - what happens?

Nuclear exchanges? Putin gets assistance from the US? 

It wouldn't happen.  If Europe actually sent troops into Ukraine, Russia would make a lot of noise and a lot of threats.  Some kind of cyber attack that might give European nations a temporary bloody nose, but no way they'd use nukes and Russia just couldn't go toe to toe with a united Europe. 

 

The US would react as they should.  If Europe falls, it would be cataclysmic for the US economy and we can all see that that is where Trump's priorities lay.  I think he'd do the right thing, but for the wrong reasons.

[leicsmac]

Rather different to the events of yesterday, that.

[urban.spaceman]

10 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Rather different to the events of yesterday, that.

Still dressed in his civvies though. Putin would have worn a suit and brought flowers. 

[Dahnsouff]

Wasn’t the US supposed to protect Ukraine as part of the deal that saw Ukraine give up its Nuclear weapons (The Belgrade agreement)?

[nnfox]

17 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Still dressed in his civvies though. Putin would have worn a suit and brought flowers. 

sHoW sOmE rEsPeCt. pUt a sUiT oN.

 

 

[st albans fox]

49 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Wasn’t the US supposed to protect Ukraine as part of the deal that saw Ukraine give up its Nuclear weapons (The Belgrade agreement)?

Yes

as are we and France