Premier League has charged LCFC with an alleged breach of PSR

[ftfagos]

Time for a re-read of this

[AjcW]

There's teams who have been promoted and relegated who are still managing to be competitive, on the surface they don't appear to have had to shift as many key players as we have either. They've also been faily stable manager wise.

 

Fulham and Bournemouth stand out as never hearing a whisper of PSR breaches.

 

Fulham realised some big recruitment mistakes they'd made when they were yo-yo'ing and changed it. 

 

You could throw in those who have struggled to compete too. Southampton can barely string a pass together but you never hear of them getting done by PSR either. Sure it's up and down for them, but structure/recruitment wise you feel they'll stumble across a sellable gem or two. 

 

Without fail for the last 3/4 years we are mentioned, that's not the PL/EFL coming after us, that is missmanagement time and time again by people who have been in the job too long.

Commercial department that has been here 15 years and can't generate income.

Marketing department that have been here 15 year and haven't created an appealing/engaging global brand (all men, no one under 35, no one has been here less than 8 years... and barely a qualification between them all)

A glorified PE teacher who has ended up in charge of everything at the club.... somehow.

A retail expert CEO who has overseen some of the worst in retail/ecommerce/concourse refreshment income this club has ever seen.

Two heads of recruitment in a row who had horrific records with the likes of Leeds, Sunderland, Everton and Southampton.

 

We deserve everything we get. Lets not forget the next chapter in this saga is being investigated for money laundering and illegal advertising.

 

[Stadt]

[ClaphamFox]

This is quite a good summary from Jordan Blackwell in the Mercury:

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/point-deduction-transfers-dewsbury-hall-10198770

 

This part seems particularly important:

 

"With the sale of Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall and the compensation received for Enzo Maresca’s move to Chelsea, the feeling at City was that they would be close to meeting the loss threshold, and so they should not be too far over the limit.

 

"The precedent set by the Everton and Nottingham Forest cases is that a PSR breach leads to a three-point deduction, with a further point taken off for every £6.5m over the loss threshold.

 

However, City are not dealing with one charge, but three. They're also alleged to have failed to provide their accounts before December 31, and failed to "provide full, complete and prompt assistance in response to the league's enquiries".

 

 

[thlcfc93]

2 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

I swear it was reported by people including Percy saying the KDH sale meant we’d survived a PSR breach? So what has changed?

This is true - see tweet below from January. It’s very odd…

 

[Ricey]

19 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

The delay this season was due to the PL challenging the independent decision wasn't it? Not an LCFC challenge.

Both, if we hadn’t pushed back on the PL’s original charge there would be no delay at all. The PL were always going to appeal it.

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, Ricey said:

Both, if we hadn’t pushed back on the PL’s original charge there would be no delay at all. The PL were always going to appeal it.

Given we've ultimately been proven correct on that matter then it would seem odd to attribute blame to us for any delays.

[CosbehFox]

54 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Hard to tell. 

• PL PSR allowable loss is £105m for each 3 year period
• EFL PSR allowable loss is £39m for each 3 year period, increased by £22m for each PL season in that period
• So our allowable loss for period ending 23/24 is £83m

 

Our losses for that period:

 

• 23/24 £19.4m
• 22/23 £89.7m
• 21/22 £92.5m

 

Based on our published accounts we lost £202m for the period. So we breach that period by £119m minus the add-backs. Unless those add-backs are pretty sizeable, we'll have the biggest breach of any club yet. 

 

• Everton breached by £16.6m and were given 10 points deduction, reduced to 6 on appeal
• Forest breached by £34.5m and were given 4 points deduction 

 

I wouldn’t use the accounting results as an indicator - I once tried to work out a ratio using Everton and Forest. Both of them didnt match each other at all. 
 

One thing I’ve thought was off is that the PL don’t publish PSR calculations - once 6 months have passed, the competitive sensitivity arguments diminish and clubs have to do their year end of accounts regardless 

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Ricey said:

Both, if we hadn’t pushed back on the PL’s original charge there would be no delay at all. The PL were always going to appeal it.

Which is hilarious isn’t it given it’s been a factor in our recruitment 

[sylofox]

So does the cost of a new abacus 🧮 go against our PSR spend?

[southfox66]

The route the club should take this time is that premier can't implement any penalty against any club while other clubs are still awaiting the outcome of charges against them that arise for period prior to when your charges arose ie Manchester city etc.

 

We basically need to bring the system down 

[Stadt]

We never once bothered with a spurious PSR swap deal with other clubs in the mire, despite having Golding dumped on us. I'd love to see what the day-to-day workflows are like.

[Ricey]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Given we've ultimately been proven correct on that matter then it would seem odd to attribute blame to us for any delays.

Yes, but at what cost? We’ve won one battle only to have bigger losses in the next.

 

I also wouldn’t be surprised if the EFL pick up the 22/23 charge. From what I can tell the commission has only ruled that the PL weren’t in their right to punish us.

[Iwebema]

8 minutes ago, thlcfc93 said:

This is true - see tweet below from January. It’s very odd…

 

I think this is a question about jurisdiction. In January they were still locked in the legal battle about what they could and couldn't do given we had been between 2 leagues.

The issue has now been resolved in the premier leagues favour meaning they now can seek to charge us for the championship season.

 

They've written off the 2022 relegation season due to the legal loop hole.

[MattFox]

Not providing accounts on time and timely information is nothing to do with the system and everything to do with shambolic ownership 

 

Likewise sanctioning the signing of Oliver Skipp with zero resale value or hiring Steve Cooper

[ClaphamFox]

3 minutes ago, Ricey said:

Yes, but at what cost? We’ve won one battle only to have bigger losses in the next.

 

I also wouldn’t be surprised if the EFL pick up the 22/23 charge. From what I can tell the commission has only ruled that the PL weren’t in their right to punish us.

The media seems convinced that can't happen now, but then again the media said we wouldn't be charged for 23/24, so....

[Les-TA-Jon]

12 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I wouldn’t use the accounting results as an indicator - I once tried to work out a ratio using Everton and Forest. Both of them didnt match each other at all. 
 

One thing I’ve thought was off is that the PL don’t publish PSR calculations - once 6 months have passed, the competitive sensitivity arguments diminish and clubs have to do their year end of accounts regardless 

What the hell can we use otherwise?

 

As I said, our loss is £119m more than the allowance. I'm not saying we've breached by that much, because we don't know what add-backs we've got - but it's a starting point. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

7 minutes ago, Stadt said:

We never once bothered with a spurious PSR swap deal with other clubs in the mire, despite having Golding dumped on us. I'd love to see what the day-to-day workflows are like.

You know that scene in South Park where they decide on the best way to bail out the insurance firm? 

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, MattFox said:

Not providing accounts on time and timely information is nothing to do with the system and everything to do with shambolic ownership 

 

Likewise sanctioning the signing of Oliver Skipp with zero resale value or hiring Steve Cooper

This is the thing that has shocked me the most. It means that as recently as a few months ago, with all of our history of PSR issues, we were still breaching rules in a completely unnecessary way by submitting our accounts late. I mean you'd think we'd have learned our lesson by that point and would have tried to keep on the PL's good side by meeting a simple deadline, but apparently even that was beyond us.

[The Year Of The Fox]

[Parker Pen]

2 hours ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I think Nick De Marco might make the PL and EFL look like idiots again 

I hope you are right as they are as amateur as our Board!

[Stadt]

8 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

You know that scene in South Park where they decide on the best way to bail out the insurance firm? 

Not watched it for years, can you link it?

[Dan]

3 hours ago, Jakemoore said:

Isn’t it ironic that they brought PSR in to improve the game we all love, and all it’s done is kill it totally. I’d actually rather go back to the closed shop top 6 then have to keep reading about another alleged breach of a smaller club like ours.

 

Having said all that, the club is nothing short of a joke. They only have themselves to blame. I feel so totally detached from this shitshow.

 

Anyone who genuinely believes that is a fool. The game is being destroyed on purpose and nobody will convince me otherwise.

 

I would imagine it's to get us the super league by stealth.

[urban.spaceman]

21 minutes ago, AjcW said:

There's teams who have been promoted and relegated who are still managing to be competitive, on the surface they don't appear to have had to shift as many key players as we have either. They've also been faily stable manager wise.

 

Fulham and Bournemouth stand out as never hearing a whisper of PSR breaches.

 

Fulham realised some big recruitment mistakes they'd made when they were yo-yo'ing and changed it. 

 

You could throw in those who have struggled to compete too. Southampton can barely string a pass together but you never hear of them getting done by PSR either. Sure it's up and down for them, but structure/recruitment wise you feel they'll stumble across a sellable gem or two. 

 

Without fail for the last 3/4 years we are mentioned, that's not the PL/EFL coming after us, that is missmanagement time and time again by people who have been in the job too long.

Sorry but comparing us to other clubs with PSR is a mistake; at the times the rules were changed to be so restrictive, we were the ONLY club who had been challenging the Top 6 and had spent - within the rules - to qualify for the Champions League. THAT is why they’ve hit us the hardest. It’s absurd to compare us to newly promoted Fulham or a Southampton who had been circling the bottom half of the league for a decade. 

 

The Premier League and EFL’s mismanagement of football finances has gone on for a quarter of a century now. They’ve proven themselves incapable of holding anyone accountable, have repeatedly admitted their own rules were poor, and have repeatedly broken their own rules. They’ve broken the game beyond repair. 

 

21 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Commercial department that has been here 15 years and can't generate income.

Marketing department that have been here 15 year and haven't created an appealing/engaging global brand (all men, no one under 35, no one has been here less than 8 years... and barely a qualification between them all)

A glorified PE teacher who has ended up in charge of everything at the club.... somehow.

A retail expert CEO who has overseen some of the worst in retail/ecommerce/concourse refreshment income this club has ever seen.

Two heads of recruitment in a row who had horrific records with the likes of Leeds, Sunderland, Everton and Southampton.

I agree. 

 

21 minutes ago, AjcW said:

We deserve everything we get.

I strongly disagree. 

[dorsetboy]

Prem and efl as corrupt as man city.

 

They need to look at capping wages and transfer fees.

 

Let them do what they want league 1,2 or national league ill always be a fox.