General News Thread

[MPH]

1 hour ago, Legend_in_blue said:

And the viable alternative is...?

 

it’s kind of like asking who the viable alternative is to Jon Rudkin. Sometimes it’s of benefit to get  rid and work that part out later  

[MPH]

9 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

 

The country is in a mess largely in part due to the bandwagon that Farage set off in 2016.  Yet people will gladly join it once again because he deserves a chance?  I don't often follow politics too much but Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell are always worth a listen in times like this.  Check out The Rest it Politics on YT for an educated view on the situation.

 

you can’t blame reform entirely, for this mess. I mean, a swing from Labour to reform is surely a much larger swing than a from Labour to the Tories. Labour had a massive vote, the Tories were dead and buried and yet they still managed to let such a massive    Voting block melt through their fingers.. they had the votes… they didn’t need to persuade anyone to join them… how can millions of voters vote for Labour and then make the switch to reform?

Edited 12 May by MPH

[Lionator]

3 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

Problem for me, and I reckon a lot of others, is I'm a bit of everything. Probably even reform if I'm honest. Makes it difficult to vote. 

I try to judge each local candidate on their merit, not the party they represent but even that is difficult sometimes. My local MP seems a decent guy and has local interest at heart, which is enough for me to probably vote for him again if there was an election now. 

Of course, and that’s fine and probably healthy for a democracy. And God, you vote for your local MP so if they’re decent and doing a good job you should absolutely reward them with your vote, because that’s how our voting system works. 

[leicsmac]

36 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

it’s kind of like asking who the viable alternative is to Jon Rudkin. Sometimes it’s of benefit to get  rid and work that part out later  

Given the current state of the world and the importance of the decision being made, I'm inclined to think that sometime, this time, is not one of those times. 

[MPH]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

Given the current state of the world and the importance of the decision being made, I'm inclined to think that sometime, this time, is not one of those times. 

 

Drop him like a hot potato. Have an open  and transparent leadership election and try to win back trust that way. Any process that retains any kind of starmer influence will not regain the trust of any voters. I do understand that you can’t just have Ali G in as your leader but  let the voters be angry with starmer and  let their anger walk away when he does . and then,  ‘ new new Labour’ with a fresh leader, might stand a chance. 

[Sly]

3 hours ago, MPH said:

Drop him like a hot potato. Have an open  and transparent leadership election and try to win back trust that way. Any process that retains any kind of starmer influence will not regain the trust of any voters. I do understand that you can’t just have Ali G in as your leader but  let the voters be angry with starmer and  let their anger walk away when he does . and then,  ‘ new new Labour’ with a fresh leader, might stand a chance. 

The current path of trajectory would suggest Labour are going to get the same treatment the Conservatives got at the last general election, which would be annihilation.

 

We are in a weird time realistically as the world is uneasy, so whoever is at the helm, be it Labour, Conservative, Liberal, Reform, Green etc, so many outside influences are currently strangling the economy, you won’t be able to do right for doing wrong. 
 

People still feel poorer than 5 - 10 years ago, as the economy and inflation is squeezing them. The ongoing cost of living is a challenge for many. 
 

Reform is pushing the anti immigration and pedalling the non British agenda from the right. The entire stop the boats thing feels like it’s rolled on forever.

 

The Greens are starting to grow from the left as people look at a wider economic future that is more sustainable. A younger , changing demographic for  voters will have a very different set of values to the last one.
 

The NHS feels like it is in the worse state it has been for decades. Whilst its decline started under the last hot potato leadership regime, it still feels like it’s falling and not improving.

 

The roads now have more holes in them than your average block of Swiss cheese. I’d be hesitant to say that construction companies have profiteered during covid and with things like HS2 and I’ve been surprised that we haven’t had a call to privatise some of these business to bring cost under control.

 

Everything you hear about the prison system is bleak.

 

Then you have this really unclear flip flopping in what Starmer and Labour actually stand for now. 
 

Sadly the issue is bigger than Starmer. I say this as someone that historically has been a conservative voter but he and any future government leader, are currently on a hiding to nothing. 
 

Whoever takes the reins next, will face similar problems. Until the world rights itself and to a degree, then they’ll be in a tough spot.
 

The great fear is that I see a Reform win akin to the Liz Truss budget disaster and that is a car crash waiting to happen. They’ll win the culture war but cause longer lasting instability, in my opinion. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

6 hours ago, MPH said:

 

it’s kind of like asking who the viable alternative is to Jon Rudkin. Sometimes it’s of benefit to get  rid and work that part out later  

That sounds like our manager recruitment policy.

[Jon the Hat]

12 hours ago, EnderbyFox said:

So the only two names really being put forward are smarmy Streeting and a bloke who isn't even an MP. How shit must the 400 odd other Labour MP's be?

Others will no doubt emerge if a proper process happens.  That said, with such a weak cabinet, there seems to be a dearth of quality despite the huge numbers.

[South Shire Fox]

9 hours ago, Legend_in_blue said:

And the viable alternative is...?

Peter Soulsby. Think how green the country will be when hes turned the M1 into the worlds longest bike lane. The breast enlarger Polanski himself couldnt compete with that sort of green statement

[CruzNoir]

I mean, Starmer needs to go, that much is obvious, he is not leading Labour to victory at the next election, it’s just not happening, he’s far too despised by the public.

 

However, kudos to him for not submitting too pressure, 80+ MP’s have called for his resignation, none of which, not a single one in fact, have put a name forward for who should be the next leader, so Starmer is probably thinking that there is no one better, a sad state of affairs I know, if of the 400 Labour MP’s there’s not a single one that’s a “better option”….then yeh that’s pretty piss poor, however the point for Starmer stands, why step down when there’s no one better currently or even willing too challenge??? There’s only 80/90 of them calling for his resignation, 300+ aren’t. He’s also got the kings speech delivering his next political legislation going into the next term…..why would he stand down with such weak calls for him too do so?

 

it would also be a win for Farage’s “vote for us too get Starmer out” calls

 

I do think they’ll allow Burnham too run, it’s not a guarantee he’ll win a by election but I think Starmer and NEC will allow it this time and Starmer will ask Burnham for an agreed amount of time before Burnham can crack on and do him

Edited 13 May by CruzNoir

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, MPH said:

 

Drop him like a hot potato. Have an open  and transparent leadership election and try to win back trust that way. Any process that retains any kind of starmer influence will not regain the trust of any voters. I do understand that you can’t just have Ali G in as your leader but  let the voters be angry with starmer and  let their anger walk away when he does . and then,  ‘ new new Labour’ with a fresh leader, might stand a chance. 

Oh, no disagreement there. 

 

I was thinking more in general terms about people acting in haste and then repenting at leisure, along with a lot of other people who didn't ask for those consequences at all. 

 

4 hours ago, Sly said:

The current path of trajectory would suggest Labour are going to get the same treatment the Conservatives got at the last general election, which would be annihilation.

 

We are in a weird time realistically as the world is uneasy, so whoever is at the helm, be it Labour, Conservative, Liberal, Reform, Green etc, so many outside influences are currently strangling the economy, you won’t be able to do right for doing wrong. 
 

People still feel poorer than 5 - 10 years ago, as the economy and inflation is squeezing them. The ongoing cost of living is a challenge for many. 
 

Reform is pushing the anti immigration and pedalling the non British agenda from the right. The entire stop the boats thing feels like it’s rolled on forever.

 

The Greens are starting to grow from the left as people look at a wider economic future that is more sustainable. A younger , changing demographic for  voters will have a very different set of values to the last one.
 

The NHS feels like it is in the worse state it has been for decades. Whilst its decline started under the last hot potato leadership regime, it still feels like it’s falling and not improving.

 

The roads now have more holes in them than your average block of Swiss cheese. I’d be hesitant to say that construction companies have profiteered during covid and with things like HS2 and I’ve been surprised that we haven’t had a call to privatise some of these business to bring cost under control.

 

Everything you hear about the prison system is bleak.

 

Then you have this really unclear flip flopping in what Starmer and Labour actually stand for now. 
 

Sadly the issue is bigger than Starmer. I say this as someone that historically has been a conservative voter but he and any future government leader, are currently on a hiding to nothing. 
 

Whoever takes the reins next, will face similar problems. Until the world rights itself and to a degree, then they’ll be in a tough spot.
 

The great fear is that I see a Reform win akin to the Liz Truss budget disaster and that is a car crash waiting to happen. They’ll win the culture war but cause longer lasting instability, in my opinion. 

This is accurate, but just thought of an observation on the bolded:

 

The ideology that Reform are into won't just cause economic instability. It will be across the board and it may well be absolute.

 

The way they want to do things is simply incompatible with the way the UK and the world needs to move forward, if it's going to avoid some very, very nasty outcomes (much nastier than the present time).

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, South Shire Fox said:

Peter Soulsby. Think how green the country will be when hes turned the M1 into the worlds longest bike lane. The breast enlarger Polanski himself couldnt compete with that sort of green statement

As much as Soulsby deserves a few pelters, policy on generating energy from an environmental perspective isn't an issue that can be overlooked for long. This year is already shaping up to be the warmest on record - again. 

[Finnegan]

9 hours ago, MPH said:

 

you can’t blame reform entirely, for this mess. I mean, a swing from Labour to reform is surely a much larger swing than a from Labour to the Tories. Labour had a massive vote, the Tories were dead and buried and yet they still managed to let such a massive    Voting block melt through their fingers.. they had the votes… they didn’t need to persuade anyone to join them… how can millions of voters vote for Labour and then make the switch to reform?

 

"Left Wing" political parties biggest problems, in both Britain and America, is that they stopped actually being left wing political parties around the late 90s and now that's exactly what the world needs. 

 

Labour and the Dems both turned themselves in to the parties of middle class, neo-liberal changephobes and corporate interests. It got them an uptick in popularity at the time because they hung on (for a while) to their working class base who they thought would never change allegiance and they gained a whole swathe of the middle. 

 

But then a global financial crisis happened and that's just steadily rolled in to another and another over the last two decades and every time we have some major cost of living escalation, the richest still get richer. 

 

It's now twenty odd years later and Labour still don't have a clue how to talk to, let alone win back, the white working class. It started with Gordon Brown's "bigoted woman" and it's come all the way to today's Kier Starmer. 

 

Even John Major made the point recently, talking about how the Labour Party he was used to fighting was made up of working class socialists that kept British politics in check and gave an actual voice to the working electorate. Now the Labour Party is a bunch of upper middle class bankers, lawyers and career politicians that's indistinguishable from the Tories except for being less corrupt than Johnson's hilarious cabinet. 

 

Reform are just political vultures funded by bad actors representing the interests of anyone that can afford to pay, be that billionaires or Russia. Farage doesn't care, he'll take anyone's money and say anything to get in power and get rich. He's just the Trump of the UK, a vile, traitorous, self interested leech. Nobody with any sense should vote for him. He'll cause significant harm to the lives and the wallets of the common citizen in this country. 

 

But Labour have to do a much better job at presenting an alternative. They need to wake the **** up and accept that most of the country are fed up and want change. They've been dealt a horrible hand, it's not exactly an overnight job to fix the economy and they've got to constantly fight Rupert Murdoch and the overwhelming right wing bias of our news infrastructure but that still. Isn't an excuse for just how bad they are and how out of touch they are. 

 

And if they go with Streeting, who is about as right wing as you get in senior Labour ministers, then they've learned absolutely nothing and we're ****ed. 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2py6l78dxo

 

Interesting article on the similarities (and differences) between the two major world players right now. 

[Spudulike]

I can't believe that Labour would go into the next GE with Starmer as PM and this current front bench. It would be the end of them for a generation, or more.

 

Their best, probably only, chance is to somehow get Burnham in but only within 6-12 months before the GE. Not enough opportunity to completely mess it up and can blame the previous imcumbent(s). Labour are masters at that. Ramp up the spin, new brush etc, and hope for some traction.

 

It's all about timing.

[davieG]

The fact that voters are switching from Labour to Reform, who are miles apart politically shows what it has been for many years now but much worse due to the abundance of media outlets a leader popularity contest.

[Greg2607]

53 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

"Left Wing" political parties biggest problems, in both Britain and America, is that they stopped actually being left wing political parties around the late 90s and now that's exactly what the world needs. 

 

Labour and the Dems both turned themselves in to the parties of middle class, neo-liberal changephobes and corporate interests. It got them an uptick in popularity at the time because they hung on (for a while) to their working class base who they thought would never change allegiance and they gained a whole swathe of the middle. 

 

But then a global financial crisis happened and that's just steadily rolled in to another and another over the last two decades and every time we have some major cost of living escalation, the richest still get richer. 

 

It's now twenty odd years later and Labour still don't have a clue how to talk to, let alone win back, the white working class. It started with Gordon Brown's "bigoted woman" and it's come all the way to today's Kier Starmer. 

 

Even John Major made the point recently, talking about how the Labour Party he was used to fighting was made up of working class socialists that kept British politics in check and gave an actual voice to the working electorate. Now the Labour Party is a bunch of upper middle class bankers, lawyers and career politicians that's indistinguishable from the Tories except for being less corrupt than Johnson's hilarious cabinet. 

 

Reform are just political vultures funded by bad actors representing the interests of anyone that can afford to pay, be that billionaires or Russia. Farage doesn't care, he'll take anyone's money and say anything to get in power and get rich. He's just the Trump of the UK, a vile, traitorous, self interested leech. Nobody with any sense should vote for him. He'll cause significant harm to the lives and the wallets of the common citizen in this country. 

 

But Labour have to do a much better job at presenting an alternative. They need to wake the **** up and accept that most of the country are fed up and want change. They've been dealt a horrible hand, it's not exactly an overnight job to fix the economy and they've got to constantly fight Rupert Murdoch and the overwhelming right wing bias of our news infrastructure but that still. Isn't an excuse for just how bad they are and how out of touch they are. 

 

And if they go with Streeting, who is about as right wing as you get in senior Labour ministers, then they've learned absolutely nothing and we're ****ed. 

 

it goes beyond this though doesn't it. 

 

Our politics isn't set up to actually tackle the REALLY hard problems to solve... because it's daily news cycles and trying not to fall foul of public sentiment. 

 

For the UK to move forward a few fundamental conversations need to be had - 

• how do we reform the Welfare State that almost makes it more attractive to be on benefits than in low paid work - they tried to do this, but it caused a labour rebellion
• how do we continue to fund our state pension, when we have a declining birth rate and an increasing pensioner class - Especially when "immigration" is a toxic conversation
• How do we move away from unfunded Public Sector pensions and align them closer to those available in the Private Sector - unions will kick up merry hell about this
• How do we renew the UK infrastructure when we operate in 5 year parlimentary cycles - it needs BIG investment, but we don't have the political will to do this
• How do we make more housing available, when by increasing supply, it's likely to have a negative impact on the vast majority of "wealth" in UK families (their property) - falling house prices will be heavily criticised and potentially disastorous for our Mortgage model in the UK. 
• How do we evolve away from a service led economy to one which targets the industries of the future? 
• How do we evolve our energy infrastructure to try to protect against climate change and reliance on ourseas supply? - Most of our energy companies are owned by foreign companies. 

None of these are easy problems to solve for ANY party, and even more so under the toxic UK media. 

 

in short........ until the above are addressed

 

[davieG]

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

it goes beyond this though doesn't it. 

 

Our politics isn't set up to actually tackle the REALLY hard problems to solve... because it's daily news cycles and trying not to fall foul of public sentiment. 

 

For the UK to move forward a few fundamental conversations need to be had - 

• how do we reform the Welfare State that almost makes it more attractive to be on benefits than in low paid work - they tried to do this, but it caused a labour rebellion
• how do we continue to fund our state pension, when we have a declining birth rate and an increasing pensioner class - Especially when "immigration" is a toxic conversation
• How do we move away from unfunded Public Sector pensions and align them closer to those available in the Private Sector - unions will kick up merry hell about this
• How do we renew the UK infrastructure when we operate in 5 year parlimentary cycles - it needs BIG investment, but we don't have the political will to do this
• How do we make more housing available, when by increasing supply, it's likely to have a negative impact on the vast majority of "wealth" in UK families (their property) - falling house prices will be heavily criticised and potentially disastorous for our Mortgage model in the UK. 
• How do we evolve away from a service led economy to one which targets the industries of the future? 
• How do we evolve our energy infrastructure to try to protect against climate change and reliance on ourseas supply? - Most of our energy companies are owned by foreign companies. 

None of these are easy problems to solve for ANY party, and even more so under the toxic UK media. 

 

in short........ until the above are addressed

 

And the difficulty with all of these highlight the flaws of short term democratic policymaking. 

 

That being said, a few other democratic nations appear (key word there) to be dealing with those issues better, so perhaps looking at the way they do things more closely might help?

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

Oh, a smear job against a person that threatens the cushy status quo for certain sections of the media. 

 

I'm shocked. 

[Wymsey]

Tragic..

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwyg508gg28t

 

[davieG]

24 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And the difficulty with all of these highlight the flaws of short term democratic policymaking. 

 

That being said, a few other democratic nations appear (key word there) to be dealing with those issues better, so perhaps looking at the way they do things more closely might help?

Do other countries have the knee jerk reaction to any major or even some minor incidents to change the government. It's becoming more difficult to have two consecutive terms in parliament. Certainly Labour have struggled with this.

This I believe is the upturn of influence from the massive increase in media a lot of it driven by the right wing or money grabbing heads of businesses.

[Jon the Hat]

22 minutes ago, davieG said:

 

 

Lee Valley Marina is a non-residential marina.  He was not supposed to be living there but has revealed he was indeed living on the boat.

If you live mainly on a boat, it is subject to council tax.  You are responsible for your tax, and not knowing this, or indeed others also not knowing this if they were also living there, is not a defence.

The media like to point out political hypocrisy, especially from people who want others to pay more tax, but don't pay their own.

 

To either deliberately or accidentally underpay council tax is either criminal or incompetent.  I would say the latter in this case, but on top of the antisemitism, the history of strange statements about hypnotherapy making your boobs bugger doesn't exactly suggest this is a man to invent much faith in.

 

Dan Neidle tweets about questionable tax behaviour (including for example by the then deputy leader of the Labour party and the then Tory Chancellor).

 

[Trav Le Bleu]

2 minutes ago, davieG said:

Do other countries have the knee jerk reaction to any major or even some minor incidents to change the government. It's becoming more difficult to have two consecutive terms in parliament. Certainly Labour have struggled with this.

This I believe is the upturn of influence from the massive increase in media a lot of it driven by the right wing or money grabbing heads of businesses.

Difficult to have one uninterrupted term. Would Cameron be the last PM to do that?

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

 

 

Lee Valley Marina is a non-residential marina.  He was not supposed to be living there but has revealed he was indeed living on the boat.

If you live mainly on a boat, it is subject to council tax.  You are responsible for your tax, and not knowing this, or indeed others also not knowing this if they were also living there, is not a defence.

The media like to point out political hypocrisy, especially from people who want others to pay more tax, but don't pay their own.

 

To either deliberately or accidentally underpay council tax is either criminal or incompetent.  I would say the latter in this case, but on top of the antisemitism, the history of strange statements about hypnotherapy making your boobs bugger doesn't exactly suggest this is a man to invent much faith in.

 

Dan Neidle tweets about questionable tax behaviour (including for example by the then deputy leader of the Labour party and the then Tory Chancellor).

 

When it suits them, which is itself hypocritical.