General News Thread

[WigstonWanderer]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Question then, if he majority of the people don't have a job, how will they buy the products & services which AI creates?  Assuming AI can do everything which of course it cannot.

This is a question that rarely seems to be discussed except to mumble a bit about UBI.

[CornwallFox]

20 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Question then, if he majority of the people don't have a job, how will they buy the products & services which AI creates?  Assuming AI can do everything which of course it cannot.

Precisely why a universal basic income has become an idea. If AI and robotics end up being the producers of goods and wealth, then the wealth created can be distributed across the country to free humanity from the burdens of work, to enjoy life as we were born to. Utopian most likely, but that's the idea. 

[CornwallFox]

4 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

This is a question that rarely seems to be discussed except to mumble a bit about UBI.

Money isn't a real thing. It's a human invention. And it's not even tangible. Coins aren't money, money is electronic. 1s and 0s in the ether. If AI and robotics really took over work then we'd need to redesign how our economy works. There's no reason we couldn't simply give everybody the funds to buy enough to enjoy life. We won't, of course, as having everybody enjoy life doesn't seem to be a goal for those with the power to make it possible. 

[JonnyBoy]

3 minutes ago, CornwallFox said:

Money isn't a real thing. It's a human invention. And it's not even tangible. Coins aren't money, money is electronic. 1s and 0s in the ether. If AI and robotics really took over work then we'd need to redesign how our economy works. There's no reason we couldn't simply give everybody the funds to buy enough to enjoy life. We won't, of course, as having everybody enjoy life doesn't seem to be a goal for those with the power to make it possible. 

 

I think in your world nothing will be right until everyone is in hippy gear all earning the same amount regardless of what job you have and all live off the land 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

Why cant they take any of the options suggested for group 2? I.e. halve rent by renting with someone or spare room? or live at home? what is their circumstance?

 

 

 

 

This is assuming that every person has a family capable of and willing to offer that support, and/or the wherewithal and stability to live with a platonic friend, or even a total stranger, harmoniously.

 

Of course, neither of these things are guaranteed in every case. 

 

Once again, presenting this only as a matter of "it's always up to the person" personal responsibility sounds idealistic and good, but really doesn't take into account a lot of personal circumstances, and so is rather reductionist and lacking in empathy. 

 

Sometimes, people don't have control over their lives, sometimes the power inequality that clearly exists in modern society (as it has almost always) makes that clear, and sometimes those people need a bit of help, which (as long as people actually think we live in a society rather than Mad Max) those with the capability have a duty of care to provide. 

[JonnyBoy]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is assuming that every person has a family capable of and willing to offer that support, and/or the wherewithal and stability to live with a platonic friend, or even a total stranger, harmoniously.

 

Of course, neither of these things are guaranteed in every case. 

 

Once again, presenting this only as a matter of "it's always up to the person" personal responsibility sounds idealistic and good, but really doesn't take into account a lot of personal circumstances, and so is rather reductionist and lacking in empathy. 

 

Sometimes, people don't have control over their lives, sometimes the power inequality that clearly exists in modern society (as it has almost always) makes that clear, and sometimes those people need a bit of help, which (as long as people actually think we live in a society rather than Mad Max) those with the capability have a duty of care to provide. 

There are always exceptions. But we aren't talking about the majority though here are we who can't live at home/ also cannot rent with a friend or use spare room. I lived with strangers, hated it.. but did it. 

 

My point is, people can, if they really wanted to, use their money more wisely to save. I am evidence of that, I started off on spare room renting a room not spending more on luxuries and saved for a house deposit (on my own). People like to to have everything, new and now. 

Edited 20 November 2025 by JonnyBoy

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, JonnyBoy said:

There are always exceptions. But we aren't talking about the majority though here are we who can't live at home/ also cannot rent with a friend or use spare room. 

 

My point is, people can, if they really wanted to, use their money more wisely to save. I am evidence of that, I started off on spare room renting a room not spending more on luxuries and saved for a house deposit (on my own). People like to to have everything, new and now. 

And I likewise saved while working abroad. As you say, it can be done by some. 

 

But I - and I like to hope a lot of other people - can and should push back against the sentiment in this and other cases where those "exceptions" are overlooked or appear not to matter. Because when that happens, it's very easy for those people to simply become "acceptable collateral damage" in some kind of social Darwinist ideal. 

Edited 20 November 2025 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

We disagree on a lot but I’m completely with you on this one. I think a lot of people just think too short-term in AI as well - like how it will take certain jobs within the next 5 years and not how it will utterly restructure our society over the next 25 years in weird ways it’s impossible to predict. 
 

Like if told someone how the internet would change almost every job, our attention spans, lead to research suggesting people have less friends, less sex, feel like they have less meaningful relationships, completely change politics, society, how when and where  we work and everything when we were all getting those AOL CD-ROMs through our door and the common line back then was “it’s just a communication tool, it won’t change that many jobs”. Yet it’s so integrated in all our lives that it’s almost impossible to go internet free nowadays - like you can barely buy food with physical cash or use your banking in plenty of western countries nowadays even.

 

AI I think will more likely than not have multiple times more incredible profound and  weird, unthinkable effects on society than even the internet did. 
 

Like, I think most of society nowadays is seriously addicted to the internet in a way that does both individuals and society more harm than good, but AI will be able to quite easily create way more addictive and destructive algorithms to each individual person. Almost to the point where people will find it chemically extremely hard not to doomscroll for hours upon end (and how will powerful people take advantage of that - and how companies and governments will make it such an integrated a part of our life it’s almost impossible to go AI free from). 

 

I saw this Hank Green video recently which did a good explanation of it too. That we just can’t predict the profound changes AI will actually have in society because everyone only thinks short-term and the effect it will have on certain jobs within the next few years and not how it will affect our social relationships in 20-30 years.

 

 

Quoted for emphasis. 

 

We definitely stand at a crossroads as a species, with this and a few other critically important directions to take.

 

And the route taken will affect all of us. 

[danny.]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

We disagree on a lot but I’m completely with you on this one. I think a lot of people just think too short-term in AI as well - like how it will take certain jobs within the next 5 years and not how it will utterly restructure our society over the next 25 years in weird ways it’s impossible to predict. 
 

Like if told someone how the internet would change almost every job, our attention spans, lead to research suggesting people have less friends, less sex, feel like they have less meaningful relationships, completely change politics, society, how when and where  we work and everything when we were all getting those AOL CD-ROMs through our door and the common line back then was “it’s just a communication tool, it won’t change that many jobs”. Yet it’s so integrated in all our lives that it’s almost impossible to go internet free nowadays - like you can barely buy food with physical cash or use your banking in plenty of western countries nowadays even.

 

AI I think will more likely than not have multiple times more incredible profound and  weird, unthinkable effects on society than even the internet did. 
 

Like, I think most of society nowadays is seriously addicted to the internet in a way that does both individuals and society more harm than good, but AI will be able to quite easily create way more addictive and destructive algorithms to each individual person. Almost to the point where people will find it chemically extremely hard not to doomscroll for hours upon end (and how will powerful people take advantage of that - and how companies and governments will make it such an integrated a part of our life it’s almost impossible to go AI free from). 

 

I saw this Hank Green video recently which did a good explanation of it too. That we just can’t predict the profound changes AI will actually have in society because everyone only thinks short-term and the effect it will have on certain jobs within the next few years and not how it will affect our social relationships in 20-30 years.

 

 

100%, we are so self-destructive as a society. The internet is amazing and it's brought so much that we all like but is also probably the single worst thing we've ever created as a society interns of mental, emotional and societal health. Well not the whole internet, but certainly when social became popular that was the start. It was actually really nice in the late 90s when you had to boot up your 56k to check email but it's so invasive now it's ruined so many lives, people don't even realise it.

I predict the quickest and easiest change we are already seeing, and that is making people stupid. Calculators killed people's mental arithmetic abilities, spell check their ability to write and AI will replace people's ability to think almost completely. We will see generations of fundamentally stupid and limited people barely able to hold a conversation or think about anything without "asking Chat". 

We've been doing this as a species a lot longer than the internet and AI too, look at things like tobacco and vaping, or UPF - we are experts at creating thing that do us untold harm in the name of profits and fun.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Question then, if he majority of the people don't have a job, how will they buy the products & services which AI creates?  Assuming AI can do everything which of course it cannot.

Exactly, who is thinking about this - it's so short term. Organisations and businesses are saving money now by replacing workers with AI and then they will have no customers long-term. It's entirely self destructive.

[leicsmac]

6 minutes ago, danny. said:

100%, we are so self-destructive as a society. The internet is amazing and it's brought so much that we all like but is also probably the single worst thing we've ever created as a society interns of mental, emotional and societal health. Well not the whole internet, but certainly when social became popular that was the start. It was actually really nice in the late 90s when you had to boot up your 56k to check email but it's so invasive now it's ruined so many lives, people don't even realise it.

I predict the quickest and easiest change we are already seeing, and that is making people stupid. Calculators killed people's mental arithmetic abilities, spell check their ability to write and AI will replace people's ability to think almost completely. We will see generations of fundamentally stupid and limited people barely able to hold a conversation or think about anything without "asking Chat". 

We've been doing this as a species a lot longer than the internet and AI too, look at things like tobacco and vaping, or UPF - we are experts at creating thing that do us untold harm in the name of profits and fun.

 

 

Exactly, who is thinking about this - it's so short term. Organisations and businesses are saving money now by replacing workers with AI and then they will have no customers long-term. It's entirely self destructive.

The dearth of critical thought (though maybe it was always there, perhaps the internet made it patently obvious) when applied to policymaking, on at least some matters, is going to be highly destructive. That's moving from a probability to an inevitability.

 

In times past, we (society) could get away with being "stupid". Now, however, with the way power and tech have advanced, so have the degree of consequences for that "stupidity".

[CornwallFox]

58 minutes ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

I think in your world nothing will be right until everyone is in hippy gear all earning the same amount regardless of what job you have and all live off the land 

I think you completely misunderstand my view of the world. I've never once suggested everybody should earn the same. I've just pointed out multiple times that our economic system isn't functioning in a way that benefits the population and also recognise that one of the outcomes has been huge wealth at the top Vs real struggle for millions of working people. 

 

The question is what to do when all the work is automated. What's your answer if it isn't let humanity actually be human? Or do you believe that humanity was born to work to survive? 

Edited 20 November 2025 by CornwallFox

[Lionator]

Critical few days in Kyiv by the way. Trump is ultimately prepared to throw Ukraine under the bus, in light that Europe have offered nothing of any merit. Zelenskyy’s mates have been pocketing money that was meant for energy infrastructure, so Ukrainians are becoming divided against the government. Losing critical ground in the east too. If this happens, then we have about 2-3 years to prepare for a great European war. 

Edited 20 November 2025 by Lionator

[Tommy G]

7 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Critical few days in Kyiv by the way. Trump is ultimately prepared to throw Ukraine under the bus, in light that Europe have offered nothing of any merit. Zelenskyy’s mates have been pocketing money that was meant for energy infrastructure, so Ukrainians are becoming divided against the government. Losing critical ground in the east too. If this happens, then we have about 2-3 years to prepare for a great European war. 

Well that's cheered me up, cheers. 

[CornwallFox]

18 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Critical few days in Kyiv by the way. Trump is ultimately prepared to throw Ukraine under the bus, in light that Europe have offered nothing of any merit. Zelenskyy’s mates have been pocketing money that was meant for energy infrastructure, so Ukrainians are becoming divided against the government. Losing critical ground in the east too. If this happens, then we have about 2-3 years to prepare for a great European war. 

This is a genuine question, in case it sounds like I'm trying to be clever....I haven't really kept up with Ukraine news, what evidence is there about the pocketing of money and the Ukrainian division? 

 

The 2-3 year war timeline - what's your thinking about the things that would happen to take us from here to there? Realistically Russia has been attacking Europe throughout of course, with all sorts of unexplained events and energy failures going on as they test Europe's ability to keep things moving and on in the event of hybrid attacks.

Edited 20 November 2025 by CornwallFox

[st albans fox]

Real discussions are taking place as to whether Tehran will be the first capital city to be effectively abandoned as such due to CC. 

[Sampson]

3 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

This is a question that rarely seems to be discussed except to mumble a bit about UBI.

My guess is that it’s perfectly realistic that AI companies will create gig economy jobs where people get paid just enough to keep going and buying stuff to sit in front of a computer for 14 hours a day to train the AI itself by giving feedback to different types of consumable media and getting endless dopamine hits until it makes us all brainless and even more starved of the social interaction and living life in ways that makes us feel human.

 

Im not criticising btw because I absolutely feel trapped by it all as much as anyone, I and I don’t want to be yelling at clouds, but I remember asking my great uncle as a kid what they used to do in the evenings after work in the early 20th century before the radio and tv and he said they’d go to the pub, play cards, go to dances, meet people… almost every night they’d do actual social activities with friends and/or family.

 

Humans are social creatures, we evolved that way to survive by working together, but since the radio, tv, then the internet we’ve created progressively more and more anti-social ways we get our dopamine hits from instead from telling stories, doing things like playing games or dancing or physical activities with others. I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but I can only see AI being another more aggressive step in killing humanity’s inherent socialness after radio, tv, and the internet

 

I’ve said it before but I honestly think one of the biggest causes of the mental health crisis is how our society is no longer social - how it feels ridiculously difficult to make friends as an adult nowadays, which is such an absurd place to be in for pack animals who’ve spent millions of years where making friends was previously extremely easy, you’d just start playing and chatting with the other humans about, that’s the biggest thing about technology for me, it gives us these small micro anti-boredom hits throughout the day, but over time its kills our societies ability to be a social one. Where AI takes that is scary to me.

Edited 20 November 2025 by Sampson

[Robo61]

Worth a watch for anyonre with real interest in tax policy

[Trav Le Bleu]

12 minutes ago, Robo61 said:

Worth a watch for anyonre with real interest in tax policy

You make it sound enthralling!

[Zear0]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

Critical few days in Kyiv by the way. Trump is ultimately prepared to throw Ukraine under the bus, in light that Europe have offered nothing of any merit. Zelenskyy’s mates have been pocketing money that was meant for energy infrastructure, so Ukrainians are becoming divided against the government. Losing critical ground in the east too. If this happens, then we have about 2-3 years to prepare for a great European war. 

It's almost as if Trump is trying to find some good news. 

[Trav Le Bleu]

3 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

Money isn't a real thing. It's a human invention. And it's not even tangible. Coins aren't money, money is electronic. 1s and 0s in the ether. If AI and robotics really took over work then we'd need to redesign how our economy works. There's no reason we couldn't simply give everybody the funds to buy enough to enjoy life. We won't, of course, as having everybody enjoy life doesn't seem to be a goal for those with the power to make it possible. 

I sometimes wonder, if there was a massive cyber attack on the world's banks, would they have any offline records of who has what? Of course some people have a paper statement each month, but they're in a vast minority and even then hundreds of transactions could've happen since the last printout.

[Zear0]

6 minutes ago, Trav Le Bleu said:

I sometimes wonder, if there was a massive cyber attack on the world's banks, would they have any offline records of who has what? Of course some people have a paper statement each month, but they're in a vast minority and even then hundreds of transactions could've happen since the last printout.

Isn't that the plot to Fight Club?

[foxfanazer]

17 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Isn't that the plot to Fight Club?

Mate! What's the first rule of fight club?

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

Real discussions are taking place as to whether Tehran will be the first capital city to be effectively abandoned as such due to CC. 

Don't worry, doesn't directly affect "us" so we don't need to care. 

 

Apparently. 

[Lionator]

2 hours ago, CornwallFox said:

This is a genuine question, in case it sounds like I'm trying to be clever....I haven't really kept up with Ukraine news, what evidence is there about the pocketing of money and the Ukrainian division? 

 

The 2-3 year war timeline - what's your thinking about the things that would happen to take us from here to there? Realistically Russia has been attacking Europe throughout of course, with all sorts of unexplained events and energy failures going on as they test Europe's ability to keep things moving and on in the event of hybrid attacks.

1. In Ukraine there’s NABU which is basically an American ran anti corruption programme which seeks to sniff out corruption which has stopped Ukraine fully integrating into Europe. There’s the domestic SBU too. Zelensky a few months back tried the reduce the powers of the NABU for little reason. The public protested and he overturned his decision. Then last week NABU announced they’d ran an investigation into an oligarch called Timur Mindich who owns the media company which Zelensky co owned as well as Andriy Yermak (essentially the fixer). That company was getting huge energy security contracts and a lot of that money has gone missing and been located to Mindich and his cronies. He escaped the country last week. The allegation is that Zelensky and Yermak would’ve at least known about this, and may even be profiting off it themselves. 
 

2. At the moment Russia doesn’t want an actual war with the rest of Europe because it’s busy in Ukraine. However once it’s over they will have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and billions of rubles of military equipment at the ready. They will invade the Baltic countries so that when the USA doesn’t respond, they will say that NATO is dead. Russian tanks won’t be rolling down Gallowtree Gate but they want to be the dominant power in Europe now that the USA is disengaging. 

[CornwallFox]

2 hours ago, Lionator said:

1. In Ukraine there’s NABU which is basically an American ran anti corruption programme which seeks to sniff out corruption which has stopped Ukraine fully integrating into Europe. There’s the domestic SBU too. Zelensky a few months back tried the reduce the powers of the NABU for little reason. The public protested and he overturned his decision. Then last week NABU announced they’d ran an investigation into an oligarch called Timur Mindich who owns the media company which Zelensky co owned as well as Andriy Yermak (essentially the fixer). That company was getting huge energy security contracts and a lot of that money has gone missing and been located to Mindich and his cronies. He escaped the country last week. The allegation is that Zelensky and Yermak would’ve at least known about this, and may even be profiting off it themselves. 
 

2. At the moment Russia doesn’t want an actual war with the rest of Europe because it’s busy in Ukraine. However once it’s over they will have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and billions of rubles of military equipment at the ready. They will invade the Baltic countries so that when the USA doesn’t respond, they will say that NATO is dead. Russian tanks won’t be rolling down Gallowtree Gate but they want to be the dominant power in Europe now that the USA is disengaging. 

They've lost a lot of equipment and there's a lot of reserves called up right now, domestically trying to keep them enrolled might be difficult though. 

Plus America will be back in 3 yrs, 2 years from now they'll be looking at an election the next year.

Not saying you're wrong, just giving a bit of other way thought.

Interesting on the corruption stuff though, that's all news to me 👍🏻

Edited 20 November 2025 by CornwallFox