Comparing us to ipswich and soton

[John12345]

Im in a bit of a state of shock at our plight and cant quite believe it. I must admit I kind of lost interest a few months back we've been so bad.  Now its sinking in and the 2 other relegated teams are flying, im trying to work out why. I think the one big thing is this season weve spent nothing and according to transfermarkt,  they've spent like 50m to 70m each. Do you think that and the points deduction have probably been the biggest factors. I suppose the managers too. Soton sacked theirs and got lucky it seems?

[The Year Of The Fox]

Hi Jon

 

We might not have spent a penny in transfers but we’ve overspent on wages for years which has had a twofold affect

 

1. Players lost any desire to work hard

2. Transfer money taken up on these wages

 

 

I hope this helps you going forward 

 

 

 

[LCFCJohn]

I don’t really get how anyone can be stunned or surprised by where we are. It’s been increasingly obvious for a while.

 

That thread from August that resurfaced was interesting. I didn’t expect us to go down this season, back at the start. I thought it’d be a couple of years decline but that we would end up relegated to League 1 before long. Whilst falling straight through this season is worse than predicted by most, there’s a difference between not predicting it being this bad and being shocked about it. 
 

In terms of why, nothing to do with the points deduction. We are fast heading into territory where we go down by more points than the 6 deducted. Even if we are relegated by less, our on the pitch performances would only have seen us scrape survival anyway.

 

It’s not the investment as every time this ownership ‘invests’, it results in crimes against football. 
 

The reason is we are a toxic club, Southampton and Ipswich aren’t. We are a club in a civil war state. Owner against fans. Fans against fans. Players not playing for the fans or each other. 
 

And it all comes from those at the top being toxic and not taking any accountability (or not being held to account by most of the fanbase).

[fox_favourite]

1 hour ago, John12345 said:

Im in a bit of a state of shock at our plight and cant quite believe it. I must admit I kind of lost interest a few months back we've been so bad.  Now its sinking in and the 2 other relegated teams are flying, im trying to work out why. I think the one big thing is this season weve spent nothing and according to transfermarkt,  they've spent like 50m to 70m each. Do you think that and the points deduction have probably been the biggest factors. I suppose the managers too. Soton sacked theirs and got lucky it seems?

No. Biggest factor is the players we bought have such a weak and selfish mentality. They don't care, that is the difference in us, Ipswich and Southampton. Our recruitment 

[Mike Oxlong]

The ethos throughout the whole club is wrong. We expect to be at the top table because of what we have achieved and so have been complacent when all indicators point to ongoing systemic failures over many years. This has resulted in a lack of accountability for poor performance and leadership and the view that everything will be alright rather than making changes when required or at all to bring about improvement 

Edited 14 April by Mike Oxlong

[ClaphamFox]

15 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

No. Biggest factor is the players we bought have such a weak and selfish mentality. They don't care, that is the difference in us, Ipswich and Southampton. Our recruitment 

The interesting question is whether those players were weak and selfish before we bought them, or just became so after they joined us. Would all of them be behaving the same way if they were signed Ipswich or Southampton? I’m not convinced they would. 

Edited 14 April by ClaphamFox

[fox_favourite]

2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

The interesting question is whether those players were weak and selfish before we bought them, or just became so after they joined us. Would they be behaving the same way if they were signed Ipswich and Southampton? I’m not convinced they would. 

That is a good point, and probably individually no they wouldn't. But if you acquire more than say 3 or 4 with that attitude, then it can spread to the whole team, maybe? 

 

The whole club is rotten. It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if, when Fatawu is sold, he flushes again. 

[ClaphamFox]

5 minutes ago, fox_favourite said:

That is a good point, and probably individually no they wouldn't. But if you acquire more than say 3 or 4 with that attitude, then it can spread to the whole team, maybe? 

 

The whole club is rotten. It genuinely wouldn't surprise me if, when Fatawu is sold, he flushes again. 

Yes I think another club will pay peanuts for Fatawu and, after a period of adjustment, he will turn out to be brilliant for them. Others will follow the same pattern. They’ll start enjoying their football and thriving once they’ve mentally shaken off their time with us.

[Blarmy]

It’s the club culture. One of apathy and laziness and nowhere near enough emphasis on excellence. Everyone gets an easy time of it, taking lots of money despite the entire system having an extremely poor output.

 

Most of our players would have been significantly better in regards to attitude and application in a culture that demanded high standards. In addition, some of them wouldn’t be here if the culture demanded high standards. They would never have been bought.

 

The players are unfit and lazy as they haven’t been pushed enough to not be. They are poorly coached because nobody is setting standards for the coaches.
 

New managers walking into this culture have no chance as a lone voice.

 

Incredibly weak leadership. It should have one goal - success on the pitch - but there are obviously lots of other factors at play, that have destroyed the culture and ethos of the club.

[Supergray22]

22 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The ethos throughout the while club is wrong. We expect to be at the top table because of what we have achieved and so have been complacent when all indicators point to ongoing systemic failures over many years. This has resulted in a lack of accountability for poor performance and leadership and the view that everything will be alright rather than making changes when required or at all to bring about improvement 

This is it. In any other successful club under-performing players or management are identified and managed properly and if the performance cannot be improved they are managed out and replaced with those who can. Football is quite unique in the way it operates compared to other businesses and all clubs suffer to an extent due to the way contracts work in the sport but our complacency and lack of professional care stands out. A singular example is the lack adequate striker options this season which would have made a real difference. 

[Terraloon]

Here’s an off the wall view but I genuinely believe that Seagrave and the fact that the players are treated as Kings has elevated their feeing of self importance and clearly the surroundings are way too luxurious for players no where near the top of their profession 

 

What I mean by that is that far from living in a world where they are treated and  aspire to be treated very well at LCFc they turn up for training and I genuinely believe they feel they are special and are in the elite bracket of players which, they clearly aren’t.

 

 

 

Edited 14 April by Terraloon

[CrazyKopCorner]

The whole club's decline is the result of a rich mans idiot sons mentality 

 

Spoilt, soft and stupid. 

Edited 14 April by CrazyKopCorner

[st albans fox]

34 minutes ago, Terraloon said:

Here’s an off the wall view but I genuinely believe that Seagrave and the fact that the players are treated as Kings has elevated their feeing of self importance and clearly the surroundings are way too luxurious for players no where near the top of their profession 

 

What I mean by that is that far from living in a world where they are treated and  aspire to be treated very well at LCFc they turn up for training and I genuinely believe they feel they are special and are in the elite bracket of players which, they clearly aren’t.

 

 

 

 

33 minutes ago, CrazyKopCorner said:

The whole club is the result of a rich mans idiots sons mentality 

 

Spoilt, soft and stupid. 

They’re told that they’re too good for this league 

they’re told that they’re better than they are 

Hence they don’t believe that they need to make the effort 

the effort in pre season to get fit enough to compete physically 

the effort during the week to concentrate on their tactical responsibilities 

the effort during the games (as seen in our dreadful running stats) 

 

this all comes from the top - literally 

 

 

[davieG]

I don't know about Ipswich but maybe Southampton are ok because we took so many of their shit players

[Chelmofox]

I think up until only a few months back Southampton were complaining bitterly about their ownership and decision making. The Will Still experiment went horribly wrong, but they clearly made a decision at the right time, but i cant help but feel they got lucky with their manager. But then, maybe we did with Maresca.

[Qwerty]

Obviously the financial mess plays a large part, but I think Maresca leaving had quite an impact.  I wasn't a huge fan of his style of play,  but it's clear that he was an excellent man-manager.  The players loved him, he was able to attract good players, and they worked hard for him. 

 

I clearly remember the atmosphere at the pre-season friendly at Northampton, before our season in the championship in 2023.  We sold out our entire allocation, which was essentially the whole stadium.  The players seemed motivated, everyone was optimistic, and we went on to have a great season.  I don't think anyone expected Chelsea to swoop in, and Maresca to jump ship at the first opportunity.  

 

Then we had Cooper, who the players clearly didn't like.  And RVN, who was even worse.  And Marti, who seemed nice but managed to fall out with players too. It seems to me that the players all checked out once Maresca went.  They're obviously a bunch of over-paid spoilt kids, but the lack of signings and dodgy managers have brought out the worst in them.

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, Blarmy said:

It’s the club culture. One of apathy and laziness and nowhere near enough emphasis on excellence. Everyone gets an easy time of it, taking lots of money despite the entire system having an extremely poor output.

 

Most of our players would have been significantly better in regards to attitude and application in a culture that demanded high standards. In addition, some of them wouldn’t be here if the culture demanded high standards. They would never have been bought.

 

The players are unfit and lazy as they haven’t been pushed enough to not be. They are poorly coached because nobody is setting standards for the coaches.
 

New managers walking into this culture have no chance as a lone voice.

 

Incredibly weak leadership. It should have one goal - success on the pitch - but there are obviously lots of other factors at play, that have destroyed the culture and ethos of the club.

Key Aspects of Culture

• Learned and Shared: Culture is not innate; it is acquired through interaction, observation, and imitation within a society.

One word: Seagrave.

[honeybradger]

10 minutes ago, Chelmofox said:

I think up until only a few months back Southampton were complaining bitterly about their ownership and decision making. The Will Still experiment went horribly wrong, but they clearly made a decision at the right time, but i cant help but feel they got lucky with their manager. But then, maybe we did with Maresca.

Southampton are run poorly but we are in a completely different league in that regard. They have been slowly dropping down the football pyramid and will likely to continue to do so, whilst we are lurching downwards, making them look relatively well off in comparison. 

 

In reality they are going the same way as the likes of West Brom and Norwich, so not great but from where we are it looks like daisies and sunshine.

[Fox92]

Not sure how people are surprised, our long term vision has been horrific. Buying (overspending) on rubbish players and giving them big contacts in terms of length and salary.

 

90% of our squad is overpaid rubbish and it's nobody else's fault but ours.

[FoxesTalker]

Despite finishing above both of them last season in 18th, it felt like our club was in the biggest mess of the three. That's how it's turned out this season.

[fazzyfox]

I thought in the summer that although they lost Delap and Hutchinson Ipswich had a lot less to do to sort themselves out than we did. A lot of their squad had been bought and built in the championship previously, they kept their manager and I fancied them to boss the league. They had a slow start and I didn't foresee Coventry's season but it looks like Ipswich will be taking that second place.

 

Southampton made a lot of sales for surprisingly high amounts in some cases (a bit like MacAteer but he was the exception not the rule for us). They had a fair bit to do to get functioning as a new look side and again after an iffy start the cogs finally started turning, it's a long season and they've got traction at the right time.

 

Neither of those two are riddled with players who think they are too good for the club (hence my point about a "settled" Ipswich) and who don't want to be there.  We knew our situation, no money to spend, points deduction imminent but it didn't have to be this bad. Handing repeated starts to players who don't put a shift in, wasting the CF loan slots on Caranza (more like an old fashioned 2 week triallist than a loanee) and Richards (he may still surprise us but ) and the AM on someone found in a casualty waiting room.

 

In short we had the most to do in the sense of getting out players than no-one seemed to want to take off us and with our hands tied behind our back. Had we got fees for Faes, Kristiansen, El Khannouss, Soumare and Winks in the summer we may have had some wiggle room to improve ourselves a little bit. Ipswich had a lot less to do and Southampton have demonstrated what a reset can look like with a little patience and belief and sensible player selection.

Edited 14 April by fazzyfox