Martin Out

[The Doctor]

1 hour ago, boosmanana said:

That's not what I've said though is it? I've stated that it's brain dead to be writing a manager and whole season off and to be booing players after our first league game of the season just because we didn't win it and win it convincingly, which I fully stand by. 

let's be real, if we'd absolutely belted them but their keeper turned into a Lev Yashin regen for a game, people wouldn't be particularly negative, sometimes you're just on the end of bad variance. the problem isn't that we didn't win convincingly, it's that we created very little of note against the league two playoff winners, it's that we gave up enough good chances to lose if they had a single striker worth the name in their squad. And it came not from teething issues, the players not quite locked into Martin's style, those exact chances are ones all of his previous teams regularly gave up, suggesting they're an intrinsic part of his style.

[whoareyaaa]

7 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

let's be real, if we'd absolutely belted them but their keeper turned into a Lev Yashin regen for a game, people wouldn't be particularly negative, sometimes you're just on the end of bad variance. the problem isn't that we didn't win convincingly, it's that we created very little of note against the league two playoff winners, it's that we gave up enough good chances to lose if they had a single striker worth the name in their squad. And it came not from teething issues, the players not quite locked into Martin's style, those exact chances are ones all of his previous teams regularly gave up, suggesting they're an intrinsic part of his style.

So did they and we didn't/don't either, there is a reason we are in league one and  it's nothing to do with this manager.

[Dames]

8 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

let's be real, if we'd absolutely belted them but their keeper turned into a Lev Yashin regen for a game, people wouldn't be particularly negative, sometimes you're just on the end of bad variance. the problem isn't that we didn't win convincingly, it's that we created very little of note against the league two playoff winners, it's that we gave up enough good chances to lose if they had a single striker worth the name in their squad. And it came not from teething issues, the players not quite locked into Martin's style, those exact chances are ones all of his previous teams regularly gave up, suggesting they're an intrinsic part of his style.

This is exactly it. Its the same story we’ve seen 80 times in a row, we know how it ends. 
 

0 improvement in any department against inferior opposition. If anything the reaction is tamer than it should be. 

[The Doctor]

6 minutes ago, whoareyaaa said:

So did they and we didn't/don't either, there is a reason we are in league one and  it's nothing to do with this manager.

https://footystats.org/england/leicester-city-fc-vs-notts-county-fc-h2h-stats#

 

more shots, better xG from them. Lines up well with what I saw, a defence desperate to play itself into trouble and a front 4 with only one player worthy of the shirt in Alves

[jimmy7587]

50 minutes ago, It'sblueupnorth said:

Hate this with an absolute passion. We won multiple trophies and went on multiple european tours without KP. Without Nigel Pearson, Craig Shakespeare and Steve Walsh we definitely don't win any trophies or go on any european tour, yet they're overlooked like KP were investing Sheik Mansour levels of money. I'm sure KP had their involvement but our title winning squad cost 22m, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that any other owner in english football could have contributed that level of finance. KP if we're being honest had a negligible involvement in our trophy haul over the 'golden age'. Could it be argued that any involvement no matter how big or small couldn't be changed to create the perfect storm for our success? Perhaps. But KP should be absolutely nowhere near front and centre for the cause of our success. Any decent ownership doesn't have the club at the highest peak to their lowest trough in 10 years

Not disputing the involvement and influence of those you referenced, mainly responding to where we were when they started and where we are today. I do recall a vision that they had, where they had the ambition of getting Leicester into Europe in 5+ years of the said statement, I think when we were promoted from the Championship. Perhaps other owners would have been visionaries also… but in this instance, this came to fruition and some! 
 

Agree on the short timeframe of our downfall as not being acceptable, but back to the topic on point, we have had a clear out of players, trying to out others, and only recently appointed a new manager that with his most recent failures has a point to prove. Let’s hope he does and we can touch back on this discussion at the end of the season once we’ve been promoted back to the Championship.

 

[markko]

He would not have been my choice. However he is our manager. He has players that don't want to be here and is bringing in new players who have not had much pre season. Let's see where we are in 8 weeks.

 

I doubt very much we have any money to get rid and to suggest doing so after a game is just daft.

 

Edited 16 August by markko

[GorlestonFox]

40 minutes ago, markko said:

He would not have been my choice. However he is our manager. He has players that don't want to be here and is bringing in new players who have not had much pre season. Let's see where we are in 8 weeks.

 

I doubt very much we have any money to get rid and to suggest doing so after a game is just daft.

 

Rince and repeat for the last 5 managers

[bovril]

He's just another unintelligent manager who can't really coach players or understand the dynamics of a football game in real time so is just totally wedded to a system that he thinks is successful and very clever but doesn't really understand. Many such cases. 

 

You can tell a lot about a manager from what they say in their post match interviews. There are those that talk about specific things that were done well or could be done better - Maresca was a bit like this and I see it in Fuchs too. Then there are those that talk about "learning", systems, mentality, application, weren't quite at it.

 

So sick of having thick twats managing my football club. 

Edited 16 August by bovril

[MGLCFC]

13 minutes ago, bovril said:

He's just another unintelligent manager who can't really coach players or understand the dynamics of a football game in real time so is just totally wedded to a system that he thinks is successful and very clever but doesn't really understand. Many such cases. 

I don't think he's unintelligent and I think he can coach players, it's just his vision of how he wants to play is beyond the ability of L1 standard players and in the past he has been too stubborn to adapt. I think he's taken the job because he thought Leicester could get his career back on track as they are still a relatively big club and should gain promotion at the first attempt. However, unless he gets the right Centre Halves in who are confident ball players and a better no. 6 before the end of the window then his system will fall flat on its face. (He probably needs an additional striker too).

Edited 16 August by MGLCFC

[bovril]

1 minute ago, MGLCFC said:

I don't think he's unintelligent and I think he can coach players, it's just his vision of how he wants to play is beyond the ability of L1 standard players and in the past he has been too stubborn to adapt. I think he's taken the job because he thought Leicester could get his career back on track as they are still a relatively big club and should gain promotion at the first attempt. However, unless he gets the right Centre Halves in who are confident ball players and a better no. 6 before the end of the window then his system will fall flat on its face.

If he wants to get his career back on track by playing that style of football which has failed for him elsewhere, with these players, then yes I think he's probably quite stupid.

[It'sblueupnorth]

2 hours ago, boosmanana said:

Again, it's been one game. 

 

Directing the irritation to those above i.e Rudkin and Top, absolutely on board with that as they've ****ed us over repeatedly for years. Directing it at someone who's been in charge for 2 competitive games and not lost, nah.

But it's going to be the same next game and the game after. Just because it's Martin's first league doesn't mean that McCarthy, Okoli, Souttar or Skipp are ever going to be capable of playing out from the back, we know factually that they can't. We've seen that they can't under his time here already. So if he's going to persist with this system, again history tells us that he will, then he's hamstringing us from the offset for no reason other than stubbornness. You can simultaneously want Aiyawatt and Rudkin out as well as Martin they're not mutually exclusive, and I am strongly in favour of all and any protests to them. However, I'm not willing to be patient with Martin, we all knew he wasn't the right fit for the club. If he lines up next week with McCarthy and BDCR then seriously get him out, we've seen enough of them to know they should be absolutely nowhere near the team, and if he's watching them in training and from the limited game time we've all seen then he clearly doesn't have a clue. Being patient with him has absolutely no benefit to us, because if he's watched any game of football in the last 2 years and thinks the players we have can play out from the back then he is monumentally stupid, and also if he thinks McCarthy or BDCR warrant another appearance after his first 2 games then he's simply taking the piss

[It'sblueupnorth]

14 minutes ago, MGLCFC said:

I don't think he's unintelligent and I think he can coach players, it's just his vision of how he wants to play is beyond the ability of L1 standard players and in the past he has been too stubborn to adapt. I think he's taken the job because he thought Leicester could get his career back on track as they are still a relatively big club and should gain promotion at the first attempt. However, unless he gets the right Centre Halves in who are confident ball players and a better no. 6 before the end of the window then his system will fall flat on its face. (He probably needs an additional striker too).

If he was intelligent then he wouldn't be playing this system with the players he's got. Why persist with a system that you simply don't have the players to implement it properly with. Until he's got the players he needs, he needs to play a different way, it's as simple as that. The only 'ball playing keeper' we have wasn't even in the squad saturday, albeit he's shite as well 

[Dan]

7 hours ago, gurru991 said:

Martins style of football requires players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet. Unfortunately we do not have very many of those & it showed against Notts County..!!

It takes a special kind of stupidity to keep trying to drive that square peg into a round hole.

Which we continue to not actually recruit with our scattergun approach. The McCarthy signing is a massive red flag on Martin's head - a player he had before who doesn't suit him and they've gone for it. A very Aiyawatt era signing.

[Dan]

4 hours ago, The Doctor said:

let's be real, if we'd absolutely belted them but their keeper turned into a Lev Yashin regen for a game, people wouldn't be particularly negative, sometimes you're just on the end of bad variance. the problem isn't that we didn't win convincingly, it's that we created very little of note against the league two playoff winners, it's that we gave up enough good chances to lose if they had a single striker worth the name in their squad. And it came not from teething issues, the players not quite locked into Martin's style, those exact chances are ones all of his previous teams regularly gave up, suggesting they're an intrinsic part of his style.

Correct. It would've been frustrating to batter them and draw, but in the long run I would be more encouraged by the fact we'd outplayed a side and been unlucky.

 

What was served up yesterday was not that by any measure. We were very lucky to even draw the game.

 

It's incredible how bad a team we actually are. The majority of the times we've won in recent years we've been pretty fortunate. I can't remember too many games where we've been genuinely unlucky to not win it either - maybe Sheff Weds and Watford away late last season. More often than not though it's just stodgy rubbish, give away far better chances than we create ourselves but get occasionally bailed out by an individual bit of quality. A bit like yesterday actually.

 

If MK Dons had served up those first two games from us as a newly promoted team I'd be tipping them to drop. We have got to substantially improve immediately.

[accessory]

14 hours ago, Unabomber said:

You can’t compare our best ever manager to this charlatan 

They didn't. Martin O'Neill wasn't in the discussion.

 

If you truly believe NP was a better manager than MON, your IQ must be about a tenth of your age..

[Dames]

8 hours ago, Dan said:

Correct. It would've been frustrating to batter them and draw, but in the long run I would be more encouraged by the fact we'd outplayed a side and been unlucky.

 

What was served up yesterday was not that by any measure. We were very lucky to even draw the game.

 

It's incredible how bad a team we actually are. The majority of the times we've won in recent years we've been pretty fortunate. I can't remember too many games where we've been genuinely unlucky to not win it either - maybe Sheff Weds and Watford away late last season. More often than not though it's just stodgy rubbish, give away far better chances than we create ourselves but get occasionally bailed out by an individual bit of quality. A bit like yesterday actually.

 

If MK Dons had served up those first two games from us as a newly promoted team I'd be tipping them to drop. We have got to substantially improve immediately.

And this is why they were boo’d and they deserve it. The only hysterical people on this forum are those rushing to defend the team, the manager and call for patience when the fans have been patient for 2 years and 80+ games and nothing has changed apart from the fact the opposition is worse. 

[Phild]

2 minutes ago, Dames said:

And this is why they were boo’d and they deserve it. The only hysterical people on this forum are those rushing to defend the team, the manager and call for patience when the fans have been patient for 2 years and 80+ games and nothing has changed apart from the fact the opposition is worse. 

Anybody who Boo's their team game 1 of a 46 match season should seriously consider spending their Saturday afternoons shopping

[Unabomber]

24 minutes ago, accessory said:

They didn't. Martin O'Neill wasn't in the discussion.

 

If you truly believe NP was a better manager than MON, your IQ must be about a tenth of your age..

Thanks for the insult, have a good day 

[Blarmy]

22 minutes ago, Phild said:

Anybody who Boo's their team game 1 of a 46 match season should seriously consider spending their Saturday afternoons shopping

Only if you don’t see the bigger picture, i.e. the previous 80-odd games where the exact same issues were observed and caused back to back relegations, which in turn creates a more than likely chance that we go into administration.

 

People were booing as they were desperate to see any kind of evidence that lessons have been learned, that we won’t repeatedly and predictably drop points to teams worth a fraction of ours, but play with fight, aggression, physicality and directness and put results before the managers “philosophy”.

[lcfcbluearmy]

18 hours ago, jimmy7587 said:

But we won the Premier League, FA Cup, had multiple European tours… that would not have happened unless King Power came in?! Please prove me wrong. 

 

Lowest position… after one game! After the next game we could move up and start the positive journey. I don’t disagree on the drop, the finances and the mismanagement of the club. But we have got rid of some of the deadwood, and high earners, brought in very capable players for the division (with a few more needed) and a appointed a manager that needs to be given time. We needn’t be so emotional after two fixtures where we’ve won and drew, regardless of the opponents. 

 

Any way, let’s support Russ and the team, and with more time, the results come in. 

There have been lots and lots of positives for the king power reign I am not denying that and am very thankful for the times that we had under them. I even supported them for a lot longer than a lot on here.

 

However when they bought us we were a championship club, on our way back up after a bad period in our history where we had hit our lowest ever point. They are leaving us as a league 1 club again at the lowest point in our history. They are leaving us in a worse place than they found us. That is not opinion that is just a fact. 

 

My opinion on Russell Martin hasn't been formed or changed due to these 2 games I thought he was a bad manager and a terrible appointment and it will take a lot to change my mind on that. 

 

Having said that I am always going to support the team and get behind the players but it will take significant sustained improvement for me to change my opinion on Martin and not want him out

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

Thing is its not Martins fault he is here, its not his fault the club has an obsession with the shite tippy tappy side ways and backward crap. As long as Top and his chum Jon Rudkin are here this is what we get, this is their deluded vision. Its been that way since we won the league, everything that made us Leicester City has been chucked on the bonfire and we have tried to become something we are not, and something no one asked for. For now until a new owner comes in and hopefully gut the pathetic incompetent management structure. we are either going to have to try and back it and hope it works or stay away. 

Edited 17 August by Foxin_Mad

[Foxin_Mad]

47 minutes ago, Blarmy said:

Only if you don’t see the bigger picture, i.e. the previous 80-odd games where the exact same issues were observed and caused back to back relegations, which in turn creates a more than likely chance that we go into administration.

 

People were booing as they were desperate to see any kind of evidence that lessons have been learned, that we won’t repeatedly and predictably drop points to teams worth a fraction of ours, but play with fight, aggression, physicality and directness and put results before the managers “philosophy”.

I think the problem is, we have had a lot of new managers and players. Even the best managers and players take some time to settle and get into a flow, these things aren't instant, everyone expects instant today.

 

I thought generally the application of the new players was better, more running etc, there are still a few more to potentially bring in. I think we have to wait 10 games, if its still shit then, thats when I will really worry. 

[TrentFox]

12 hours ago, MGLCFC said:

I don't think he's unintelligent and I think he can coach players, it's just his vision of how he wants to play is beyond the ability of L1 standard players and in the past he has been too stubborn to adapt. I think he's taken the job because he thought Leicester could get his career back on track as they are still a relatively big club and should gain promotion at the first attempt. However, unless he gets the right Centre Halves in who are confident ball players and a better no. 6 before the end of the window then his system will fall flat on its face. (He probably needs an additional striker too).

Add to that he’s playing Skipp as his deep midfielder. The same Skipp that can’t pass, can’t control, and has no vision. Exactly who we want our CBs to be giving the ball to under pressure from the oppo’s press 😖😞😖😞

[Taz_The_Fox]

1 minute ago, TrentFox said:

Add to that he’s playing Skipp as his deep midfielder. The same Skipp that can’t pass, can’t control, and has no vision. Exactly who we want our CBs to be giving the ball to under pressure from the oppo’s press 😖😞😖😞

 

This was absolutely the biggest issue for me in the N'thampton game and the game on Saturday. Yes, the centre backs are an accident waiting to happen, but it also proves that they don't trust Skipp at all, and why should they? If the pass doesn't come at him at a snails pace he can't control it, it just bounces straight off him. If he is indeed able to somehow control it he has no ability to turn on the ball.... If he makes a pass there is a 50/50 chance it doesn't reach where it was intended. 

 

The man tries hard I'll give him that, but he is so unsuited for the role we are asking him to play its painful to watch.

[Blarmy]

15 minutes ago, Foxin_Mad said:

I think the problem is, we have had a lot of new managers and players. Even the best managers and players take some time to settle and get into a flow, these things aren't instant, everyone expects instant today.

 

I thought generally the application of the new players was better, more running etc, there are still a few more to potentially bring in. I think we have to wait 10 games, if its still shit then, thats when I will really worry. 

I think what everyone wanted (not expected) was trying something different rather than doubling down on the style that got us in this mess in the first place. I would say this season was the time for that, and taking on Martin has all but guaranteed it won’t happen.

 

This isn’t even taking into account Top and Rudkins room-reading ability. 

 

We now have evidence it may not work with this squad in this league either, and no evidence it will. 0.7xG I think it was. The heat map tells the story very well.

 

I don’t think there is enough room for movement in the squad or the managers ability to make this system work this season. And, if it doesn’t, we may well go into administration and sink even lower. There was a chance to admit defeat and do a proper reset, and it wasn’t taken. 
 

So, I totally understand why people booed. I actually don’t think getting rid of Martin is the right thing, it’s simultaneously too early and too late on the manager front. But I fully believe we have started seeing the outcome of KPs latest mistake.