Formula 1 Thread

[Steven]

Hamilton demoted to 3rd with 25 second penalty, tightens up the title race a bit.

From the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport...one/7602830.stm

[Number 6]

HAHA Lewis, come on Massa!

[Father Ted]

Hamilton demoted to 3rd with 25 second penalty, tightens up the title race a bit.

Ridiculous!

[The Stig]

Absolute joke. Once again the politics in F1 have ruined a great race. Lewis was

A. Forced out and B. gave the place back. From my racing experience when you go off the track the first thing you think off is get back on, and you naturally go the quickest route. Lewis did that and cut the corner, but he gave the place back completly and Kimi retook the lead. Shocking shocking decsision for Lewis and for the sport. If it were the other way round and it was Kimi who had been stripped of victory I'd be saying exactly the same thing. Once again the FIA strike another blow for quality motor racing.

[dandannieldanok]

Ridiculous!

Tbf, the demotion is for colliding into Raikkonen at the bus-stop before he overtook him. Earlier in the race, teammate Kovalainen was penalised a stop-and-go for a similar offence which cost him about 25 seconds so at least there is some consistency. Hamilton knew he had done wrong because he let Raikkonen back through just after the incident. Harsh indeed but I can see why the decision has been taken.

[The Blur]

It's rumoured that he's retiring.

Come on boys, Massa 1st, Raikkonen 2nd.

That is in two years time I think so its unlikely Ferrari will give him the boot next season

[Brainy]

Tbf, the demotion is for colliding into Raikkonen at the bus-stop before he overtook him. Earlier in the race, teammate Kovalainen was penalised a stop-and-go for a similar offence which cost him about 25 seconds so at least there is some consistency. Hamilton knew he had done wrong because he let Raikkonen back through just after the incident. Harsh indeed but I can see why the decision has been taken.

No, they're showing consistency of always punishing McLaren for the littlest things, when Ferrari can do the same things and will just get fined or warned.

And Hamilton let him back through because he cut the corner, if he didnt let him back through he'd have got punished (probably banned for the rest of the season).

As far as im concerned the stewards can go **** themselves until they grow the guts to punish Ferrari.

[purpleronnie]

Excuse me but

HHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

[Asha]

As a Ferrari fan, I would like to say that's an absolute disgrace.

Imo Hamilton more than gave Raikkonen the pass back, and that on the last two laps it could of gone either way in terms of who won it, it was tense, it was exciting and I couldn't take my eyes off it. Albeit I would of prefered Raikkonen to hold on, I thought it was the kind of excitement the sport has been lacking for years.

In my knowledge, if you take to a shortcut as in Hamilton's case...to avoid an accident, then he needs to give the place back. That he did, on the pit straight.

I can't understand this, and definately ruins what was a fantastic end to the race.

[Legend_in_blue]

Ferrari International Aid (the FIA) to the rescue.

This is a disgrace. It's not often we see "racing" in the truest sense at it was witnessed at the end of today's race, but to then go and penalise it, is a real kick in the teeth.

The way I see it, you can cut a chicane in one of three ways:

1) To gain a position/advantage illegally by driving delibrately off the track and racing line;

2) To avoid a racing incident involving one or more cars crashing out;

3) Losing control of the car before it enters the chicane, and hence driving across it.

To which of these 3 does Lewis apply?

It certainly isn't 3, as he was well in control of his car entering the chicane, slightly ahead of Kimi through the first phase.

He did not do so delibrately either, as he clearly surrendered "his lead" after exiting the chicane.

Which leaves no.2. Clearly had he not cut the chicane he would have run into Kimi as he closed him out. Even if he'd have stayed on the line and braked he quite possibly would have run into him anyway since grip was low and he was on the curb at the time.

So you take the sensible option, back out and cut the chicane and surrender the position gained.

So how is this deemed illegal and worthy of a penalty?

It's a disgrace. In no way is the incident at the first corner after this any result of what had happened at the beginning of the straight. If you back off at the start of the pit lane straight, let someone go by, tail them and then outbrake them into the 1st corner, taking back the position legally, how is this wrong?

Kimi had lost the plot mentally, which finally showed once he rammed the wall later on in the lap.

To suggest that Lewis cut the chicane is ludicrous. He did not. He merely ran out of space.

Politics is ruining this sport and what has happened as a result of today's race is completely undefensible imo.

Disgrace.

[Gené and Tonic]

Well well

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70402

I wrote a piece on FIA bias for my A-level English. An extract of it:

Ferrari are key to the whole success of Formula 1. Few things in the sport are irreplaceable, but alongside the Monaco Grand Prix, they are one of them.

The team embodies the passion and life of Italian motorsport.

To grasp the extent of this, you need to travel to the town of Maranello, Italy; near the team’s headquarters.

This is a place where the roar of V8 engines replaces church bells, and the realisation that Ferrari carry the hopes of the Italian people as the English football team carry the hopes of ours begins to dawn.

As football is treated religiously in Britain, motorsport in Italy is treated likewise.

At every racetrack around the world, Ferrari flags and caps outnumber that of any other team. The grandstands are always awash in a sea of red.

It takes only an imagination to see that the loss of Ferrari from F1 would devastate the sport. Sponsorship, TV, ticketing and merchandise revenue would plummet, not to mention the tradition and history that would be lost: Ferrari contested the very first Formula 1 race back in 1950, and are the only team left from that era.

Be sure that the F.I.A will strain every sinew to make sure they contest many more in the future.

Ferrari were invloved with threats of a breakaway series just a few years ago, and taking this into account, the spy-gate decision is not surprising.

Accusations of bias, or the prospect of Ferrari leaving the sport: that seems to be the true question that the F.I.A asked themselves at the appeal hearing, and following the custom of recent years, Ferrari and Italian sport in general have once again come out on top.

[Gené and Tonic]

Star of the Race

Max Mosley's FIA Race Stewards

How do you turn a magnificent sporting occasion into an utter farce? Ask Max.

The decision by his stewards at the Belgian Grand Prix to penalise Lewis Hamilton for cutting the chicane has to figure in the all-time list of worst sporting decisions. It's as bad, if not worse, than the favouritism shown towards Ferrari at Monza in 2006 when Fernando Alonso was penalised for supposedly holding up Felipe Massa on his qualifying lap and being relegated down the grid.

The subsequent outcry was deafening.

This time round, though, there's a political implication. We have a situation where the stewards are moderated by Max Mosley's race representative Allan Donnelly. Anyone notice any names in there with a potential gripe against the McLaren team...?

This wasn't the first stupid mistake the stewards had made during the race weekend. During the GP2 feature race, Bruno Senna's championship challenge virtually came to a halt when he was adjudged to have had an unsafe release from a pit-stop and incurred a drive-though penalty.

Last time out at Valencia, the stewards couldn't come to a decision over Felipe Massa's "unsafe release" and waited till after the race before handing him a small fine.

Senna was leading the GP2 race when he pitted, was released by his pitcrew and because the pitlane was wet incurred wheelspin getting out of his box. As he slithered into pitlane, an approaching car which he would normally have got out in front of, actually passed him by and he had to slot in behind. No contact and certainly no running alongside like Massa had done with Sutil in Valencia.

Senna's pitcrew certainly had no idea that he was going to encounter a whole load of wheelspin as he rejoined, yet still he was penalised. (the only good thing to be said about it was that the stewards didn't pussy around like theyd id in Valencia and made a decision immediately - even if it was a crap one)

In the F1 race we saw Heikki Kovalainen make a move on Mark Webber that didn't come off. It was poor, it was clumsy and frankly it deserved a penalty - which he duly got. But let's replay the tapes and see how many more passing moves we could argue that for this season. How about Kimi Raikkonen crashing into the back of Adrian Sutil in Monaco...? David Coulthard on about six other cars in six other races...?

And how come you're allowed to cut the chicane so often in Montreal to keep ahead of pursuing cars...?

Exactly. It sucks.

There'll be enough debate about the chicane incident itself, so let's leave that to others. But why wasn't there action taken against Raikkonen for not slowing down when both he and Hamilton came across the waved yellows of the Rosberg incident on Lap 42. If you replay the tapes you see Hamilton slow down for the yellows and then Raikkonen almost hit him because he isn't taking any notice.

Hamilton steers his car off road to avoid Rosberg and then Raikkonen overtakes under waved yellows. Anyone spot a penalty there...? Certainly not the stewards. It's interesting to note that they came up with the Bruno Senna decision within a lap, the Kovalainen decision within a lap, and yet the Hamilton decision to investigate came after the race.

No doubt there will be all kinds of repercussions over this and it's certainly worth Mclaren taking it to appeal. The fact that the most experienced man of all - race director Charlie Whiting - saw nothing wrong with Hamilton's driving tells you all you need to know about the standard of person that acts as a steward.

The stewards and Donnelly should now face a charge of bringing the sport into disrepute. Though, come to think ot it, it's hard to think of F1 as a sport now.

Real Star of the Race

Spa Francorchamps Circuit

Even though the FIA stewards have left all but the sportingly maladjusted with a bad, if not disgusted, taste in their mouths, the true star of the race came shining through.

It was the race of the year and all thanks to the Spa circuit which has everything - fast corners, long straights, changes of altitude, history, and best of all, unpredictable weather. With a tiny pitlane and smaller-than-average garages, it still runs the risk of falling behind sporting behemoths like Shanghai and Bahrain - but where would you sooner see a GP...?

WINNERS

Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Winner

No, he did win. He wasn't faultless, but he did enough to win. What will be infuriating in years to come is that if they don't reverse this catastrophic decision all the 'official' statistics will be wrong.

But...

A better result in Championship terms would have been to let Raikkonen win. Though it's hard to stand back when the adrenalin is pumping and it's against all the instincts of an F1 driver (apart from, maybe, Nelson Piquet Senior) Lewis would have gained two points on Massa had he come second and given Ferrari a much bigger headache for Monza.

As it is, he went for the win and Raikkonen ended in the wall. If there is a true god of F1 then the remaining races will all be wet and we can see Lewis sort the men from the boys

LOSERS

Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari, DNF

Raikkonen had the kind of collision that had been coming ever since the Japanese GP of 2007. He could have lost his front wing against Hamilton's rear tyre at la Source, he could have hit the wall at Pouhon, he could have hit Rosberg and he could have hit the barrier soon after - but avoided them all. His luck couldn't go on forever.

As Kimi said afterwards, it was either a win or nothing, so he didn't care if he took Hamilton out at the Bus Stop chicane. If that had been the case then it would have been a bit like Michael Schumacher and Jacques Villeneuve at Jerez where the much quicker closing car was slammed by the car that wanted a win at all costs.

So ends his Championship campaign - he'll just love supporting Felipe...

Planet F1 know the score

[Floating Fox]

Farce. Can't see what they want Hamilton to do there. That was some of the best racing we've seen in a long time and the FIA go and ruin it. Idiots.

[The Stig]

As a Ferrari fan, I would like to say that's an absolute disgrace.

Imo Hamilton more than gave Raikkonen the pass back, and that on the last two laps it could of gone either way in terms of who won it, it was tense, it was exciting and I couldn't take my eyes off it. Albeit I would of prefered Raikkonen to hold on, I thought it was the kind of excitement the sport has been lacking for years.

In my knowledge, if you take to a shortcut as in Hamilton's case...to avoid an accident, then he needs to give the place back. That he did, on the pit straight.

I can't understand this, and definately ruins what was a fantastic end to the race.

An excellent post. Well done for not being biased.

[billabob]

As a Ferrari fan, I would like to say that's an absolute disgrace.

Imo Hamilton more than gave Raikkonen the pass back, and that on the last two laps it could of gone either way in terms of who won it, it was tense, it was exciting and I couldn't take my eyes off it. Albeit I would of prefered Raikkonen to hold on, I thought it was the kind of excitement the sport has been lacking for years.

In my knowledge, if you take to a shortcut as in Hamilton's case...to avoid an accident, then he needs to give the place back. That he did, on the pit straight.

I can't understand this, and definately ruins what was a fantastic end to the race.

The only thing in the defence of Ferrari is that did Kimi swerve thinking that he was going to hit Ham, Ham took this as a defence move and then went in for the kill. I think this is very unlikly too but im just trying to explain it before i go mad thinking that the FIA really are a bunch of Mclaren hating barstools

[Asha]

The only thing in the defence of Ferrari is that did Kimi swerve thinking that he was going to hit Ham, Ham took this as a defence move and then went in for the kill. I think this is very unlikly too but im just trying to explain it before i go mad thinking that the FIA really are a bunch of Mclaren hating barstools

True, but they were just fighting for position on the wrong tyres in crazy conditions.

All I can see slightly wrong was that Hamilton cut the chicane, for which he rightfully let Kimi back through. If Kimi couldn't hold on for more than 5 seconds it's not Hamilton's fault.

McLaren set to 'declare their intention' to appeal.

[isaidno]

Absolute joke, the penalty ruined a brilliant last few laps. Hamilton let Kimi back through so why the penalty. Kimi put in the wall anyway so no advantage was gained.

[Manwell Pablo]

True, but they were just fighting for position on the wrong tyres in crazy conditions.

All I can see slightly wrong was that Hamilton cut the chicane, for which he rightfully let Kimi back through. If Kimi couldn't hold on for more than 5 seconds it's not Hamilton's fault.

McLaren set to 'declare their intention' to appeal.

It's not just that, McLaren have telemetery that proves he gained no advantage at all from cutting the corner, the corner he was forced to cut, as had he not cut it he would of collided with Kimi, and then as we all know he gave the place back. Terribe descion and good on McLaren for appealing even though it will probable result in a further punishment.

[isaidno]

Just been watching this again. Raikkonen locked up and forced Hamilton wide. The last 2 laps were brilliant

http://www.itv-f1.com/VideoHighlights.aspx

[Brainy]

He was 6kph slower going over the finish line, and he out-braked Kimi into the hairpin. Im guessing the advantage the stewards saw was that McLaren had the better brakes.

[isaidno]

New Donington Layout

Donington Park has revealed its plan for redeveloping the circuit and facilities ready to host the 2010 British Grand Prix.

The track requiries significant upgrades to meet modern Formula One standards, and today its owners submitted their initial plans to North West Leicestershire District Council for approval.

Under the proposals, the pit lane will be moved from its current location to what is presently the Starkey's Straight, with a brand new paddock constructed on the inside of the track at this point and Coppice corner being reprofiled to accomodate the new pit entry.

The realignment of the straight means that the current Esses will be replaced by a slight left-hand kink, with the Melbourne Hairpin instead becoming the circuit's first corner.

The track will also be extended, with a new infield loop constructed. Rather than taking the current left-hand hairpin at the end of the Melbourne Loop, the revised circuit will continue straight on into a sweeping downhill left-hand bend and then a new hairpin, before climbing back towards the current pits straight.

"The submission of these plans heralds the start of a massive re-development project and a new era for Donington Park. It's an incredibly exciting time for everybody involved," said Donington's chief executive officer Simon Gillett.

"We are delighted with the plans and when the work is completed we will have a facility that will be the pride of world championship motorsport."

Donington also confirmed that its chief operating officer Lee Gill has now left the company by mutual consent.

"We wish to thank Mr Gill for his work at the circuit over the past 18 months in which we secured the prestigious FIA Formula One British Grand Prix," said Gillett.

"Mr Gill is pursuing other interests and we wish him every success. The move is part of the planned re-structuring of the company as it turns its attention fully towards the future, working towards the development of the circuit and the running of the 2010 British Grand Prix."

Donington has been awarded a ten-year contract to host the British GP, starting from 2010.

[Alexikokopops]

Bloody hell. F1 actually gets exciting and they do this. Ridiculous.

[Floating Fox]

Donnington looks very nice. Not changed too much, although I can't see much overtaking on the new infield loop section...Will be great to see them going through the Kraner Kurves though!

[Jimmy]

He was 6kph slower going over the finish line, and he out-braked Kimi into the hairpin. Im guessing the advantage the stewards saw was that McLaren had the better brakes.

had it been a dry track Kimi would of been well clear, he's been punished for having a better car in those conditions, they may as well just call it the Ferrari World Championship because god knows the FIA and its Stewards do everything they can to ensure Ferrari win

[Brainy]

had it been a dry track Kimi would of been well clear, he's been punished for having a better car in those conditions, they may as well just call it the Ferrari World Championship because god knows the FIA and its Stewards do everything they can to ensure Ferrari win

Having a better car and being a better driver in those conditions