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Daggers

What grinds my gears...

By Daggers, in General Chat

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sphericalfox

sphericalfox

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Babylon said:

Smoking advertising for years was about "lifestyle" for a reason, people were sold the idea of looking cool. Of course the end game of those companies is to get you hooked though.

 

Strange that the ones I see producing the most smoke, more often than not tick a lot of boxes in terms of the people they are. I'm not talking the odd puff of smoke, I'm talking the ones that produce an ridiculous amount. Modded car - Tick, loud music - tick, trying to look a bit "bad boy" - tick, more smoke than a steam train - tick.

It's not smoke. It's vapour. No combustion; no smoke.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That a female judge cannot make a sensible comment about women putting themselves at risk of being targeted by predatory rapists when they get very drunk without being branded misguided and accused of victim blaming.

 

It does sound as if the judge made it clear that the rapist was still entirely to blame.

The victim herself clearly thinks so: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/megan-clark-rape-victim-manchester-12807073

 

Of course, in an ideal world, a woman (or man) could get drunk without running any risk - and we could all leave our doors unlocked - but it isn't an ideal world.

 

I suppose the other lesson to learn is that we who are not predatory criminals should look out for people who put themselves in a vulnerable position by walking the streets blind drunk or whatever.

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That a female judge cannot make a sensible comment about women putting themselves at risk of being targeted by predatory rapists when they get very drunk without being branded misguided and accused of victim blaming.

Judge suggests women behave responsibly ( for their own safety) outrage! :whistle:  

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Nick

Nick

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

That a female judge cannot make a sensible comment about women putting themselves at risk of being targeted by predatory rapists when they get very drunk without being branded misguided and accused of victim blaming.

 

Agreed - when you are drunk you are more vulnerable, end of.

 

I've spent years working with victims, offenders and those who engage both for a living and nobody's saying somebody is encouraging/inviting/asking for it or any of that nonsense but in terms of being para, a person is both more vulnerable to committing crime and being a victim of many differing types of crime.

 

The issue with sexual assault and drunkenness is sensitive because of the nature of the offence in a changing contemporary culture - It's tough to get people to report such crimes, firstly because they fear they will not be believed and secondly because they may be made to feel that they are to blame.

 

Both of these issues are exacerbated when alcohol comes in to the mix, hence some objections to the tone of the remarks.

 

The judges comments were in my assessment clear and fair - but her words on reflection could have been chosen perhaps more carefully considering the context.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Thracian said:

Judge suggests women behave responsibly ( for their own safety) outrage! :whistle:  

Responsibly is not the appropriate word I don't think.  It has implicit meaning that you are responsible for what happens to you when drunk, which would be true if you walked into traffic, but not in this case, and I understand why people are very sensitive to anything which suggests the victim is responsible for the criminal actions of others.  Judge suggests women do not make themselves vulnerable to criminals would be better.

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Thracian

Thracian

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Responsibly is not the appropriate word I don't think.  It has implicit meaning that you are responsible for what happens to you when drunk, which would be true if you walked into traffic, but not in this case, and I understand why people are very sensitive to anything which suggests the victim is responsible for the criminal actions of others.  Judge suggests women do not make themselves vulnerable to criminals would be better.

I nearly added a rider about that but I hadn't read the judge's statement and couldn't imagine she'd have implied in any way that a woman being drunk would mitigate anyone else's action.  It wouldn't in my mind.

I chose the word "responsibly" because while a woman should be able to dress (legally) in the way she chooses, it seems perfectly obvious that some people - perhaps themselves the worse for alcohol, consider that the more provocatively a woman dresses or behaves (including in relation to their levels of intoxication) the greater their justification for taking advantage.

You and I might not think that but some clearly do. And, presumably the female judge felt it would improve the situation if women didn't get drunk and behaved more sensibly/responsibly/considerately, call it what you wish.          

Edited by Thracian
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sphericalfox

sphericalfox

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Babylon said:

Yes I'm aware.

It's just the verb you were utilising wasn't correct tis all.

 

I am in agreement about tools who feel it necessary to plume vapour clouds that might change the local weather, like it's some sort of competition on masculinity or driven by an attention seeking disorder, as someone who vapes, and smokes, I hope I do so with discretion and some consideration. But bells be bells whatever they are utilising to promote their insecurities or lack of social etiquette.

 

 

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

the ONLY thing that causes rape... is a RAPIST.

 

 

I don't think anyone including the judge implied otherwise, but it's a simple warning that drinking until you can barely stand up with no capacity to think or fend for yourself makes you extremely vulnerable to sexual assault, mugging or any other individually-targeted crime. It's not blaming them at all, it's more about knowing your limits and becoming less of a target to these kind of scumbags. Even the victim came out and defended the judge's comments as correct.

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

I don't think anyone including the judge implied otherwise, but it's a simple warning that drinking until you can barely stand up with no capacity to think or fend for yourself makes you extremely vulnerable to sexual assault, mugging or any other individually-targeted crime. It's not blaming them at all, it's more about knowing your limits and becoming less of a target to these kind of scumbags. Even the victim came out and defended the judge's comments as correct.

 

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Don't think anyone's arguing that tbf. Saying not to put yourself in unnecessary danger isn't the same as giving carte Blanche to the attackers

With respect...I disagree, the statement, when all is said and done... still leaves some blame with the victim.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted
Just now, ozleicester said:

 

With respect...I disagree, the statement, when all is said and done... still leaves some blame with the victim.

Ok, but what part of the statement do you feel put the blame on victims?

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Ok, but what part of the statement do you feel put the blame on victims?

"a judge who said women were putting themselves in danger by drinking "

 

Women are not in danger due to drinking... They are in danger due to rapists.. and only fvckwit cvnts who rape women!

Edited by ozleicester
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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

"a judge who said women were putting themselves in danger by drinking "

 

Women are not in danger due to drinking... They are in danger due to rapists.. and only fvckwit cvnts who rape women!

Would these women be in less danger if they could run away, scream or fight back against the racist?

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ozleicester said:

"a judge who said women were putting themselves in danger by drinking "

 

Women are not in danger due to drinking... rapists.. and only fvckwit cvnts who rape women!

 

I one hundred percent agree that rapists are the danger.

 

But a woman with lower inhibitions, and barely in control of themselves yet alone fight off an attacker, are obviously a soft target for said fvckwit cvnts.

 

If I got hammered tonight, stumble into an alley and get mugged, it's not my fault but there's steps I could have taken to make myself less of a target in that situation.

 

The judge, in my opinion, simply outlined that knowing your limit and showing caution could help prevent the opportunity or at the very worst make an undeniable case in court. 

Edited by Finnaldo
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