Germany v England - Sun - BBC - 3.00pm

[Tilley]

Embarrassing, I am ashamed.

[marbelladave]

News flash.

England plan return to a heroes welcome.

They're booked on the next flight to Glasgow.

And now the weather.

Flash floods expected in the north of England.

Caused by the entire population of Scotland pissing themselves laughing.

I'll get my coat...

[lcfc_jme]

I'll be honest, even I almost felt sorry for England this afternoon. They were thoughtless up top and looked so impotent it was unreal. I knew they were shaky defensively but that just completely took the biscuit, I've never seen such a bad English defence. Germany, just as I thought they would be, were extremely uncomfortable in defence themselves but England's lack of ideas / creativity / "know-how" up top meant that they were not exposed for what they are: an extremely average defensive side.

That said, going forward, Germany tore England to pieces. They were assured, composed, thoughtful, creative and leagues ahead of the supposed "golden generation". And some of England's players thought they'd controlled the game for long periods?!? Which game was that?! It certainly wasn't the one which finished 4-1 to Germany.

I fully expect the Argies to advance to the semi-finals by beating Germany next week, but this will be a good German side in the future.

As for England, they seriously need to ask questions behind the scenes as to why they're so inept. It starts at boardroom level and continues like dominos right the way down. The post-mortem of this dismal campaign should be all the excuse needed to change everything and invest more in the youth system, but somehow, knowing the people running the game over here, nothing will change whatsoever. It's such a shame, but such is the size of football here that money > success.

[poopbutt]

having just about everyone up for corners and free kicks at 2-1 was possibly the stupidest thing i have ever seen. i could go into more detail but i think it's clear to even people knew to the game where England went wrong. Which is surprising considering the people being paid vast amounts of money with years in the sport couldn't see it.

[SystonFox]

How were we to press the game if we can't go for it at 2-1 down?keep people back would have been ridiculous.... Yeah they were poor but august 7th ain't too far away.proper football

[Tilley]

We didn't look like doing anything until we were 2-0 down and by then it was too late.

Tactically inept, not technically good enough, clueless and as for some of our defending, Christ almighty. The first girl was just route one.

Would have been a completely different game going into half time at 2-2 if Lampards goal would have stood, which it should have. All ifs, buts and maybes, we were shit and got taught a lesson.

Capello has to go.

[FoxyPV]

SSN stat of the day - Rooney lost the ball in possession more than any other player during the WC.

[Dames]

Not a single player in our team yesterday was faster than Miroslav Klose.

Thats disgusting.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

Are this lot really the 'Golden Generation?' For me, no. Our best chance of winning anything in recent history came in '96.

This team, from Tuesday, 18th June, 1996:

Seaman

Neville Adams © Southgate Pearce

Anderton Ince Gascoigne McManaman

Shearer Sheringham

Would've shat over any line up selected yesterday, that was our 'Golden Generation'.

[dandannieldanok]

Are this lot really the 'Golden Generation?' For me, no. Our best chance of winning anything in recent history came in '96.

This team, from Tuesday, 18th June, 1996:

Seaman

Neville Adams © Southgate Pearce

Anderton Ince Gascoigne McManaman

Shearer Sheringham

Would've shat over any line up selected yesterday, that was our 'Golden Generation'.

The spine of that team was frighteningly good compared to what has followed since.

[MC Prussian]

There's hardly anything more exciting than a bunch of drunken, angry English knobs cheering an even bigger knob desperately trying to set fire to a fire-proof German flag.

...after the German team defeated the England team, The German flag defeats the england fans!

[The Doctor]

Blatter apologises to FA over disallowed Goal

Fifa president Sepp Blatter has apologised to the Football Association over Frank Lampard's disallowed goal in England's World Cup defeat by Germany.

Lampard was denied a goal in Sunday's 4-1 last-16 loss, even though his shot clearly crossed the line.

Blatter said the debate on goal-line technology would be reopened when the International FA Board meets in July.

He also said sorry to Mexico after Carlos Tevez's offside goal was allowed to stand in Argentina's 3-1 victory.

Lampard's strike came during a spell of England dominance and would have levelled the score at 2-2.

"It is obvious that after the experiences so far at this World Cup it would be a nonsense not to reopen the file on goal-line technology," stated Blatter.

The Tevez goal - the first in Argentina's second round win on Sunday - was replayed on the screens in the stadium, sparking angry clashes between officials and the Mexican players and coaches.

"Personally I deplore it when you see evident referee mistakes but it's not the end of a competition or the end of football, this can happen," added Blatter.

"Yesterday I spoke to the two federations [England and Mexico] directly concerned by referees' mistakes.

"I have expressed to them apologies and I understand they are not happy and that people are criticising.

"We will naturally take on board the discussion on technology and have the first opportunity in July at the business meeting."

Blatter's call comes less than four months after Fifa general secretary Jerome Valcke said the door was "closed" on goal-line technology and video replays after a vote by the IFAB.

The decision was reached after watching presentations of two systems, Cairos - a microchip inserted in a ball and Hawk-Eye - used in tennis and cricket.

In a statement on Fifa's website after the verdict, Blatter argued that human errors were part of football's appeal.

"The game must be played in the same way no matter where you are in the world," he wrote. "The simplicity and universality of the game is one of the reasons for its success.

"No matter which technology is applied, at the end of the day a decision will have to be taken by a human being. This being the case, why remove the responsibility from the referee to give it to someone else?"

The Fifa chief was in the crowd at Free State Stadium in Bloemfontein as referee Jorge Larrionda and his assistant Mauricio Espinosa failed to spot that Lampard's 38th-minute shot had dropped well over the line.

German media have claimed the incident atones for the 1966 final when Geoff Hurst's strike for England against West Germany was allowed to stand, even though it was unclear whether the whole ball had crossed the line.

"It happened in 1966 and then 44 years later - though it was not quite the same," added Blatter.

"I apologised to England and Mexico. The English said thank you and accepted that you can win some and you lose some and the Mexicans bowed their head and accepted it."

England's World Cup referee Howard Webb hinted at reservations over the use of technology as he urged Fifa to be mindful the "best interests of football".

He said: "We need to be careful not to change the basic nature of this wonderful game.

"As referees, we do our job on the field of play with the tools that we are given to the best of our abilities."

Blatter confirmed the IFAB would only look at the use of technology for goal-line situations, meaning no help for assistant referees over offside decisions like the Tevez goal.

"Football is a game that never stops and the moment there was a discussion if the ball was in or out, or there was a goalscoring opportunity, do we give a possibility to a team to call for replays once or twice like in tennis?

"For situations like the Mexico game you don't need technology."

Blatter also announced that Fifa will be launching a new drive to improve refereeing standards at the top level later this year.

"We will come out with a new model in November on how to improve high level referees," he commented.

"We will start with a new concept of how to improve match control. I cannot disclose more of what we are doing but something has to be changed."

[FoxyPV]

Legend.

[Dames]

Legend.

Trust Roy Keane to tell it how it is.

[purpleronnie]

Trust Roy Keane to tell it how it is.

Pretty much exactly how 99% of the population think, but nope, cant blame the players they're world class, it has to be the manager.

[purpleronnie]

I'm more angry in the fact nothing will change it will either be capellos fault or the linesman fault.

Thats why I said I hoped some stupid decision doesnt go against us...but it always seem to. And now we have an excuse.

I would love to have a preview of Oliver Holts column, his obsession with england holds no bounds, we have the best players in the world apparantly. Amazing that he thought Capello was the best possible manager through the qualifying but guess what now its all capellos fault again.

I dont understand it.

Yep last 2 days full of criticism of the manager. He's still obsessed with the players and how good they are. Why cant they see it, baffling.

Maybe more baffling is why I continue to read his column.

[Simi]

Only just had the chance to get on the forum so apologise if I'm going over old ground.

We got we deserved, **** all. If the goal is given then of course it is a different game with the momentum in our favour.

However, over the 90 minutes, in fact the whole tournament, we never really put in a single performance that you would consider impressive.

The players have underperformed, again. No real surprise there but after looking decent in the qualifiers we all expected a little more. Looks a lot like the players are just burnt out, but that doesn't seem to be the case for the rest of the players playing for other countries.

I think we should stick with Capello, if he is willing to acknowledge his errors and change the team then he should stay.

[FoxyPV]

To say Fabio Capello squared up to the reality that England have regressed from quarter-finalists to second-rounders would be a gross misreporting of events here, because the manager blamed the referee, Premier League-induced fatigue and the strange disappearance of the men he thought he knew from qualifying.

But as Capello swerved the blame for England's heaviest World Cup defeat, at an exit press conference, he surrendered an insight into the kind of cultural failings that have removed their right to be considered serious tournament contenders. The manager was responding to a question about the two lightning raids in Bloemfontein that ended England's hopes of cancelling out the aberration by referee and linesman in not seeing that Frank Lampard's first-half chip had dropped inside the goal.

As Germany broke twice inside four minutes with beautifully choreographed counter-strikes, England's defensive organisation was a shambles, with too many players pressing for the equaliser and too few primed to contain any sudden German incursion. Here were two classic tests of English tactical intelligence. As several former internationals pointed out later, Capello's men still had nearly half an hour to level the game and were not obliged to take casino risks.

This is Capello's answer: "Look, I am angry for this. I am really angry. I spoke always what has to happen with the positions on the pitch. [Germany] scored five [sic] goals. I think three of them were avoidable." In other words, players who have been drilled by Sir Alex Ferguson, José Mourinho, Rafael Benítez, Guus Hiddink, Carlo Ancelotti, Martin O'Neill and several other leading managers were incapable in an England shirt of recognising the danger should Germany break out left and right with an accomplice charging down the middle.

In these cameos of strategic ineptitude the country can see the collective inability of England teams to recreate the discipline, energy, conviction and cleverness that some of them display in club sides that, admittedly, are packed with foreign talent that disguises native deficiencies.

This might be the point to throw in the revelation that Spain, the European champions, have 750 Grade A Uefa-trained coaches, compared to under 150 in England. All those English tutors instruct fully-grown men while in Spain 640 of the 750 teach five-year-olds and up. A Spanish cultural revolution 15 years ago has transformed the national team and Sir Trevor Brooking, the Football Association's director of football development, has spoken glowingly of Germany's huge investment in coaching and talent cultivation. The results: Thomas Müller and Mesut Ozil, who tormented England in Bloemfontein.

The memory of a lumpen England side trudging forward in 4-4-2 formation could haunt their followers for a generation. As Capello acknowledged.

Germany's passing was faster, more incisive, more ambitious and more damaging than England's side-to-side and slow-and-slower approach. The FA has staked all its bets on the European Championship‑winning England Under-17s: the first representative side, says Brooking, who could be mistaken for any continental ensemble.

"In the attacking third, we need the creativity, one v one, getting past people," Brooking says. "We've always had this debate with Joe Cole over where he plays: in the hole, out wide or in the front of a little diamond at Chelsea. He couldn't force his way in under Ancelotti late in the season, which was frustrating for him.

"Ozil last year played wide in a three for the Germans. This time they had him off the front man. He's kicked on this year because he didn't have that strength. He's got stronger and quicker. Ozil has the unexpected part, the disguised pass, the movement. They are the sort of things Joe used to do all the time. In the 11 to 16 age group, you have to have the specialist coaches who can bring that creativity out of players.

"The first phase is 5-11. An 11-year-old youngster in this country isn't good enough technically so we have to play more short-sided games, do more ball work, so by the time you play 11 v 11, if you haven't got a first touch, and are not comfortable technically, you have no chance of coming through.

"One good thing with Spain winning the Euros in 2008 [is] that size isn't everything. When I came into the job six years ago, a lot of clubs were saying, 'If you are not 6ft-plus, unlucky,' and we were getting rid of really talented youngsters because they were too small. Then Spain had a midfield [of] Xavi, [Andrés] Iniesta, [David] Silva, [Cesc] Fábregas, [David] Villa up front – suddenly everyone thought if you keep the ball it's good. People started looking for the more technical players."

Brooking's big anxiety below U21 level is that the best young English players will be ruined in Premier League academy games that are result- and not technique-driven; loaned to clubs where they will acquire bad habits; and stagnate on the fringes of the "big four" first XIs.

Other European countries now see the England team as wholly subservient to the top division, where Champions League qualification and deal-making prevails over coaching.

After the blow-out in Bloemfontein, Capello sat up with his staff, picking out names which he discussed the next day with Richards. "I think we will find two to three new players, probably," he said. "One is Adam Johnson [who he left behind], another is Kieran Gibbs, the Arsenal left-sided player. There is Michael Dawson who is not young but is with us, and also we have Gabriel Agbonlahor and [bobby] Zamora. Another player we hope will be fit is Owen Hargreaves."

This desperate sifting through discards, casualties, nearly-men and some young stars who should make it (Gibbs, Johnson) is a side-game in a culture that is set up to fail

Good article in today's Guardian. The highlighted bit is the crux of the problem.

[davieG]

Good article in today's Guardian. The highlighted bit is the crux of the problem.

As the FA's Director of Football Development since April 2003, 7 years! WTF has Brooking done to improve the situation?

[FoxyPV]

Sort of says it all doesn't it.

[hairy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4OmJ-qQoZM&feature=related

Made me smile

[Guest Bilo]

Good article in today's Guardian. The highlighted bit is the crux of the problem.

This could link into my third idea on the radical solutions thread.

One of the big things about academies in general is that they fit in with the ideals of their sponsor, and while this would manifest itself in high quality football training at compulsory PE levels, one of the main changes would come after the age of 16. I would propose that, alongside traditional routes such as A Levels and BTECs, FA sponsored academies could offer coaching and refereeing courses as vocational subjects. The idea of a pupil taking English A Levels alongside their FA Coaching Badge in school may seem unusual, but would at least mean that they wouldn't have to choose between education and their sport. While this would obviously be fairly low-scale at first, the growth in the number of coaches and referees long term would aid the development of the game at its grass roots and stretch out further. It isn't a quick fix because a quick fix doesn't exist, but a long term and fundamental cultural change in the game. It needn't just be the FA either. The Football League, the Premier League and even individual clubs could get involved with this and such a project would surely only add to the prestige of all involved.

[Mee]

My link

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't quite understand why our youth system, while I think it could be improved, takes the blame every time we bottle a major tournament.

Our players have one so much at club level it is silly. We have major weakness's like Johnsons inabilty to defend and the lack of someone who could play alng side Ronney plus the loss of Rio was massive even if predictable. But we aren't the only ones with weakness's and injuries.

I don't know what the problem is, other than the pressure of the whole tournament, but there cleary is one, how Rooney can go from scoring 30 goals in a Prem season to the player who loses the ball in poession more than any other at the world cup. How Lampard can hit an average 20 goals a season in the Prem but not have a single goal at World Cup level, that counted at least.

More importanly how we qualify so well but when it comes to the big stage bottle it. I cannot ever remember us beating a side I would regard as being of a similar class to ourselves in a major tournament bar the Argies in 2002.

I think the harshness of Premier League calender point does carry some weight, I can't really think of a single player who plays his trade in the Prem setting the World cup alight.

I also think the whole WC thing is a massive mental issue with our players.

But the talent is there, IMO, they do it at club level and in qualifying.

[Samilktray]

The only player who consistently plays well for England is Ashley Cole. Not sure what point I'm trying to make.