Germany v England - Sun - BBC - 3.00pm

[AyewJoking]

We should have walked after the Lampard goal was disallowed. The only way to make Fifa stand up and take notice.

This game should draw to a conclusion the international careers of Lampard, Gerrard, Heskey, Upson, King, Carragher.

Fabio should be sacked. He has clearly failed as England boss whether you want to blame the players or not.

Next boss should be English, I can accept failure so long as we give it our all and die for the three lions.

[Edmund]

What are your dutch connections Crouchback ?

I grew up living in Holland.

[BlueSi13]

Maybe not so much now, but it certainly has been a bigger rivalry than that of England has ever been.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_and_Netherlands_football_rivalry

Bollocks mate, theres a lot of mutual respect between the Dutch and the Germans nowadays.

However England is something else, there is respect there don't get me wrong but since the World Cup in 2006 its been a different story. Largely thanks to Englands huge travelling support that basically invaded large towns and cities. The 5-1 didn't help either.

I can tell you right now the Germans are celebrating as if they've won the tournament. Sickening.

The German Dutch rivalry is big don't get me wrong but its just a football rivalry. England-Germany is so much more and always has been.

[purpleronnie]

I'm more angry in the fact nothing will change it will either be capellos fault or the linesman fault.

Thats why I said I hoped some stupid decision doesnt go against us...but it always seem to. And now we have an excuse.

I would love to have a preview of Oliver Holts column, his obsession with england holds no bounds, we have the best players in the world apparantly. Amazing that he thought Capello was the best possible manager through the qualifying but guess what now its all capellos fault again.

I dont understand it.

[MC Prussian]

At least the Germans will stop whinging about 1966 now.

[BlueSi13]

I grew up living in Holland.

BTW im not arguing from a Dutch perspective its the biggest game but over here the Germans don't see you as a rival as two nations. Just football.

Whereas England its more than football.

Anyways dreadful result today. 2-2 and it could have been oh so different. As it was Germany were able to sit back and let England have the ball and leave themselves open at the back where they hit us both times in the second half. A carbon copy of the U21 final last year if anyone remembers.....

Next time in this big games England must realise how important it is to score first.

[purpleronnie]

At least the Germans will stop whinging about 1966 now.

I wish we would stop talking about it.

[Asha]

The sad thing is, I think a lot of people are glad that a big decision went against us so they can spend the next four years moaning about it.

[purpleronnie]

BTW im not arguing from a Dutch perspective its the biggest game but over here the Germans don't see you as a rival as two nations. Just football.

Whereas England its more than football.

Anyways dreadful result today. 2-2 and it could have been oh so different. As it was Germany were able to sit back and let England have the ball and leave themselves open at the back where they hit us both times in the second half. A carbon copy of the U21 final last year if anyone remembers.....

Next time in this big games England must realise how important it is to score first.

I doubt it would have made any difference they were so superior in every department.

[Edmund]

Bollocks mate, theres a lot of mutual respect between the Dutch and the Germans nowadays.

However England is something else, there is respect there don't get me wrong but since the World Cup in 2006 its been a different story. Largely thanks to Englands huge travelling support that basically invaded large towns and cities. The 5-1 didn't help either.

I can tell you right now the Germans are celebrating as if they've won the tournament. Sickening.

The German Dutch rivalry is big don't get me wrong but its just a football rivalry. England-Germany is so much more and always has been.

As you say it's only really since 2006 that it's died down but before that there's always been a big rivalry on and off the terraces. In 2002 the Germans had banners mocking the dutch for not qualifying around the grounds.

Of course outside of football there's mutual respect between the nations in fact the dutch get on with their neighbours incredibly well but the rivalry has always been big in the past in footballing terms and wether you agree or not it all stems from ww2.

And yes it's probably more from the dutch side that the Germans.

[Salieri]

The sad thing is, I think a lot of people are glad that a big decision went against us so they can spend the next four years moaning about it.

Had we have lost by a single goal, or on pens, then we would have had every right to moan about it.

As it turned out it meant jack shit because we lost heavily, and deservedly.

[purpleronnie]

I can almost hear the removal of 1000's of st georges flags.

Well thats a silver lining.

[Magictv]

The sad thing is, I think a lot of people are glad that a big decision went against us so they can spend the next four years moaning about it.

Personally I'm delighted. Love it.

[Edmund]

I can almost hear the removal of 1000's of st georges flags.

Well thats a silver lining.

I bet the tips are going to be full of those plastic car flags over the next couple of weeks.

[BlueSi13]

I doubt it would have made any difference they were so superior in every department.

Far too harsh.

They sat back and hit us on the counter attack for their 2 goals second half. If our second "goal" had been given Germany would have had to come out of their shell and try and play, but because it wasn't they just got numbers back and took their chances when they arose.

Not excusing our first 20 minutes though. Are inability to deal with the long ball was painful.

Surely the end of the road for some of that team....please!???

[Guesty]

I like Capello and think he is a brilliant manager at club level. However I think he is too stubborn at international level. Its ok to be stubborn and only play 1 way if you can buy the players to fit that formation. At international level you cannot. Everyone said we should have played 4-5-1 from the start and as soon as we played a team that were good and that played that way they completely domintated our midfield. Gerrard was always out of position; numerous times I saw a player recieve the ball and then look to the left and have to turn back inside. Upson who has always been frankly quite poor had a good game last match but should have been replaced by a better player was shown to be woefully out of his depth. Then Lampard, he is brilliant for Chelsea where all he has to really do is shoot, but in the middle of a 4 man midfield he is not good enough.

Then to some it all up were 4-1 down and he brings on Heskey. Thats just stubborness. I admit the players badly let him down but I just don't see how you can justify the stubborness and the fact that England have been woefully poor all tournament. I always come on this forum but rarely post. But Capello has really annoyed me and I don't see him changing his ways.

[Guest Bilo]

Outclassed, Outfought and nothing short of a national embarrasment. We didn't even deserve to make it this far let alone progress further.

Football in the country is seriously fvcked up at all levels. Buck stops with the Fa for me, been on a downward spiral ever since Euro 96 ended.

Kudos to Germany just goes to show what you can produce when your institutions, clubs and leagues are so immacultely run. They are the example.

Totally agree with all of this.

German football is better run than English football in just about every conceivable way. The youth set-up is far superior and heavily invested in, where we spent £800 million on Wembley, the DFB spend similar sums on youth development and move around the country's stadia. It seems bizarre that when we did the same, to great success, the FA still pressed ahead with Wembley. What's the point of a friendly on a Wednesday night against Tunisia being played at a 90,000 seater stadum? Football is played north of the Watford Gap, and the FA seem to have forgotten this. Instead we're left with a stadium that acts purely as a cash cow while youth development, most notably the Burton development, is left to rot. I don't blame the building of Wembley for all football's ills, merely put across my view that it is indicative of the FA's approach to the game. Squeeze every last penny out of fans and sponsors while the future of the game is built on foreign players brought by the money this process generates.

Anyway, on to the game. We were like a baby's nappy to be honest. Shit at the back, piss up front and a vile mush of the two in the middle. A German side that had been made to look so average against the likes of Serbia and Ghana made us look like Australia. Outclassed, outfought, outbattled and outplayed for 90 minutes. In a way, I'm glad the 'goal that never was' didn't become an issue in the end as it forces us to address our shortcomings rather than lay all the blame at the feet of a foreign official as the tabloids have had us all do in the past. It wasn't just a case of the German XI versus the England XI, it was the DFB versus the FA. The result should therefore resonate with more than just the press, fans and players.

[Salieri]

I can almost hear the removal of 1000's of st georges flags.

Well thats a silver lining.

Another one being that we may see less of that talentless gutbucket that is James Fucking Corden.

[purpleronnie]

Far too harsh.

They sat back and hit us on the counter attack for their 2 goals second half. If our second "goal" had been given Germany would have had to come out of their shell and try and play, but because it wasn't they just got numbers back and took their chances when they arose.

Not excusing our first 20 minutes though. Are inability to deal with the long ball was painful.

Surely the end of the road for some of that team....please!???

Far too harsh?

They outplayed us totally.

[Samilktray]

Disgusting race the Germans are.

[Matt]

Their here, Their there, Their Every-Fucking-Where, Except Defence, Except Defence.

Fucking awful. The whole team is at fault but defence especially IMO, awful.

TBH though just shows how much I care about the international game, Don't get me wrong I love the big competitions and love jumping on the bandwagon, but when Leicester lose a bog standard league game I don't speak for hours, sometimes days (Really.) but England lose to Germany in the last 16 and I don't know if I should be embarrassed or what but I was laughing, It was terrible, and I can actually give an honest assessment on it....We're shit.

Yes the assistant referee got it wrong on our 2nd goal which would have made it 2-2 and may have changed our spirit, gave us confidence, changed the game but lets be honest we were shit and did we actually play defence or defence line today because I only noticed it when we were 4-1 down and its abit pointless of starting to defend at the point surely?!

Oh well roll on 2 years and we'll all be doing it again in the Euro's.

Time to worry about Leicester City now

[BlueSi13]

Far too harsh?

They outplayed us totally.

Yea ok mate.

The better team won granted. But by 4-1? No.

Overreaction.

[purpleronnie]

Yea ok mate.

The better team won granted. But by 4-1? No.

Overreaction.

You're right it could have easily been 8-2.

[Dames]

Far too harsh.

They sat back and hit us on the counter attack for their 2 goals second half. If our second "goal" had been given Germany would have had to come out of their shell and try and play, but because it wasn't they just got numbers back and took their chances when they arose.

Not excusing our first 20 minutes though. Are inability to deal with the long ball was painful.

Surely the end of the road for some of that team....please!???

Germany came out of their shells and played for 20 minutes went 2-0 up and then got pegged back 2-1. They were in front and they really did not need to over exert themselves in attack to beat us and the goals still came for them in the end. We were out thought and out played in every single department across the pitch.

[The Doctor]

Yea ok mate.

The better team won granted. But by 4-1? No.

Overreaction.

germany were by far the better team - there was a spell between the goal and half-time where england looked like they might get back into it but other than that germany were comfortable.