Legalise cannabis?

[Buce]

Pretty much a public sector gang there,as a self employed person it's nice to know where my hard earned tax is going.I'll work a few more hours this week if you want so you can all light an extra one up.

What a crass statement. Public sector or not, what gives you the right to decide how they spend their hard-earned money?

[Soup]

What a crass statement. Public sector or not, what gives you the right to decide how they spend their hard-earned money?

Spend it how you like,I just wish I knew that a pack of ZigZags might of got me better grades at school.

[Harry - LCFC]

Pretty much a public sector gang there,as a self employed person it's nice to know where my hard earned tax is going.I'll work a few more hours this week if you want so you can all light an extra one up.

 

They aren't sitting around doing nothing though are they? It's disingenuous to say they leech off your tax payments when they offer a service in return.

[Soup]

They aren't sitting around doing nothing though are they? It's disingenuous to say they leech off your tax payments when they offer a service in return.

Yeah I should know better saying stuff like that on here.My better half works in education and I say it to her all the time, and I do work loads of hours and yes she'll get a better deal on a pension.I'm not bitter.

[Haydos]

I don't think even this is true; the kind of people who sit around wasted all day would do so regardless of their drug of choice. Their drug use is incidental.

I smoke weed every evening, and have done so for 30+ years. The same is true of 90% of my friends. All of us have careers; all of us have our own home; all of us have normal, stable families. Just normal people, living normal lives.

Interestingly, none of us drink alcohol.

 

Fair enough, it was a fairly sweeping statement because although I'm aware of people who smoke 'full time' as such, most of them have fallen off the wagon and ended up being wasters. 

 

It's definitely something you can enjoy responsibly though as you and your mates prove, it just has a stigma that alcohol has and is obviously illegal.

[Nick]

Stupid comment. So you are saying that cannabis doesn't impair decision making? For Christ's sake get half a brain.

 

Comparably, absolutely.

 

How many people have a joint, get thrown out of a nightclub after a fight, with a one night stand in tow, decide to drive home under the influence and get woken up by the Police knocking on the door laid next to said new relationship with a child on the way, an STD and a criminal record looming..... that's some dangerous smoke.

 

Alcohol presents by far the greater risks on the decision making process.

[Haydos]

Comparably, absolutely.

 

How many people have a joint, get thrown out of a nightclub after a fight, with a one night stand in tow, decide to drive home under the influence and get woken up by the Police knocking on the door laid next to said new relationship with a child on the way, an STD and a criminal record looming..... that's some dangerous smoke.

 

Alcohol presents by far the greater risks on the decision making process.

 

I wouldn't bother, he's already proved his outdated and stubborn views regarding things like homosexuality in the past, I don't see why he'd suddenly have a change of heart about this issue. Of course alcohol's great for you compared to weed, don't you know weeds illegal?

[Fox92]

The comparison with alcohol is boring. If people think cannabis is "good" for you then they're as naive as people who go out a drink shit loads of alcohol all day. Both are substances, which are bad for your cardiovascular system... Alcohol will kill more people directly, because certain people will drink it all day everyday, but I have no doubts that cannabis, like any substance, contributes to your health. And all this "well I've smoked it every day for 35 years" can be applied to alcohol, of which, most normal people, drink all their lives but moderately. 

 

It's an individual's choice at the end of the day and I don't see what that has to do with anybody else. Two of my housemates smoke cannabis and I've got no problem with it as long as they don't shove it in my face, but I wouldn't knock on their door and say stop it. Choices effect people's lives, yeah it is a shame that some of these choices can lead to an early death, but we're warned enough and all receive the same education whether it comes to alcohol, cigarette's or something else.

Edited 20 June 2014 by Fox92

[Samilktray]

The ignorance towards cannabis from both sides of the argument will never go away unfortunately.

Let us all just enjoy a spliff, pint or a bottle of water in harmony.

[Steven]

Pope Francis says don't legalise drugs

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/20/pope-francis-dont-legalise-drugs

 

Many Catholic clergy will just stick to touching up altar boys I suppose.

[foz.foz]

Ok this was something I "borrowed" no more than 3 years ago and its been sat on my Pc for a discussion like this. It was done by the old Government drugs advisory council, until the government didn't like scientific proof and sacked the head guy (Professor David Nutt) over the classification of cannabis. A few of the committee resigned in protest shortly after his sacking in protest of the sacking.

Its basically a chart of the harm drugs do to /cost society. 

 

As you see, alcohol, does a lot more harm to society than you realize..

 

[Haydos]

Ok this was something I "borrowed" no more than 3 years ago and its been sat on my Pc for a discussion like this. It was done by the old Government drugs advisory council, until the government didn't like scientific proof and sacked the head guy (Professor David Nutt) over the classification of cannabis. A few of the committee resigned in protest shortly after his sacking in protest of the sacking.

Its basically a chart of the harm drugs do to /cost society. 

 

As you see, alcohol, does a lot more harm to society than you realize..

 

We don't want reports or studies! We want to be outraged because illegal things are bad and that's the way it should be!

[...............]

I think if alcohol was introduced today it would be illegal, only reason it's not is because it's too ingrained in our culture. Just because cannabis maybe is slightly less harmful, why should we legalise it?

[Rincewind]

I don't think fags would be allowed either but it would have no effect on those that drink and smoke in far away groups away from civilisations.

[foz.foz]

The reasons for its ban is all over the web, (Google it). What you want to ask is why are countries making it legal for medicinal use in someplaces, legal for personal use in others, and decriminalising it in one or two more? If it were as bad as you say, this would not be happening.

The gateway argument is flawed. Because you have a joint/bong etc does ot mean you'll end up a smack head, just like if I had a drink of larger/brandy/cider etc I wouldn't end up an alcoholic. It would happen to some, but not everyone

[Vacamion]

The reasons for its ban is all over the web, (Google it). What you want to ask is why are countries making it legal for medicinal use in someplaces, legal for personal use in others, and decriminalising it in one or two more? If it were as bad as you say, this would not be happening.

The gateway argument is flawed. Because you have a joint/bong etc does ot mean you'll end up a smack head, just like if I had a drink of larger/brandy/cider etc I wouldn't end up an alcoholic. It would happen to some, but not everyone

 

 

And the point is, even if I were to indulge to excess - to choose to guzzle a bottle of Scotch a day, or eat lardy foods and never exercise, or (heaven forfend) smoke myself into a giggly hungry mess all the time - it should be my choice to do so and my responsibility for it and my burden to live with the consequences.

 

Consenting adults should be free to put into themselves what they want to (and live with the consequences), as long it harms no others.  What goes on between my ears and in my bloodstream and nervous system, provided it does not adversely affect others, should not be the business of the government.

[Haydos]

And the point is, even if I were to indulge to excess - to choose to guzzle a bottle of Scotch a day, or eat lardy foods and never exercise, or (heaven forfend) smoke myself into a giggly hungry mess all the time - it should be my choice to do so and my responsibility for it and my burden to live with the consequences.

 

Consenting adults should be free to put into themselves what they want to (and live with the consequences), as long it harms no others.  What goes on between my ears and in my bloodstream and nervous system, provided it does not adversely affect others, should not be the business of the government.

 

So you'd be happy to forfeit any healthcare that you may require in relation to any drugs put into your body?

[Vacamion]

So you'd be happy to forfeit any healthcare that you may require in relation to any drugs put into your body?

 

 

To the same extent as George Best, or those 50 stone folk who need to be cut out of their home by the Fire Brigade before being carted off for gastric band surgery, yes. 

 

(so no then   )

 

IMO, it is equitable that either everyone pays for their own "excesses" or no one does.

 

In any case, is it not the case that the overall health impact of moderate cannabis use in adults is negligable?

[Haydos]

To the same extent as George Best, or those 50 stone folk who need to be cut out of their home by the Fire Brigade before being carted off for gastric band surgery, yes. 

 

(so no then   )

 

IMO, it is equitable that either everyone pays for their own "excesses" or no one does.

 

In any case, is it not the case that the overall health impact of moderate cannabis use in adults is negligable?

 

I have no idea tbh but I'd guess so. I was more addressing the issue of we should be able to do what we want, I think that's a tricky subject with regards to drugs.

[Vacamion]

I have no idea tbh but I'd guess so. I was more addressing the issue of we should be able to do what we want, I think that's a tricky subject with regards to drugs.

 

 

Even leaving alcoholics and the chronically obese aside, if you want to charge people for healthcare to remedy the effects of them taking a known risk which harmed them, you could also apply the same argument to rugby players, rock climbers, people with work related RSI, DIY-ers, drivers, joggers etc etc.

 

It's a moral minefield.

 

Singling out cannabis users in such an argument is, I would contend, not fair and reasonable.

Edited 21 June 2014 by Vacamion

[foz.foz]

So you'd be happy to forfeit any healthcare that you may require in relation to any drugs put into your body?

 and this adds to the argument that if you regulate/licence all drugs, you can tax the fcuk out of them and put money back into the system. (Supposedly just like tobacco and alcohol)

Edited 21 June 2014 by foz.foz

[Webbo]

Even leaving alcoholics and the chronically obese aside, if you want to charge people for healthcare to remedy the effects of them taking a known risk which harmed them, you could also apply the same argument to rugby players, rock climbers, people with work related RSI, DIY-ers, drivers, joggers etc etc.

 

It's a moral minefield.

 

Singling out cannabis users in such an argument is, I would contend, not fair and reasonable.

tbf jogging, DIY and rock climbing isn't illegal.

 

It's alright to say that cannabis is harmless to many, it probably is, but the people taking cannabis don't know if they're are the ones immune or not They're chancing their mental health for what? A few giggles?

 

 A few middle class types smoking a joint in their own home with a glass of Chardonnay isn't a threat to society but if you lived on a council estate and a gang of lads, stoned out of their brains were hanging about outside your house you'd justifiably be concerned.

 

Alcohol is also damaging, more so because of the greater number of people who use it , making it worse by including drugs into the mix seems a stupid idea to me. 

[Haydos]

 

A few middle class types smoking a joint in their own home with a glass of Chardonnay isn't a threat to society but if you lived on a council estate and a gang of lads, stoned out of their brains were hanging about outside your house you'd justifiably be concerned.

 

 

You'd probably be more concerned if they were boozed up. It's literally only because weed is 'illegal' that there's the stigma. Booze is ingrained in our culture and around the world despite being more disruptive and damaging to health.

 

Although I'd loathe the day it would probably make more sense to make alcohol illegal and legalise weed.

[Webbo]

You'd probably be more concerned if they were boozed up. It's literally only because weed is 'illegal' that there's the stigma. Booze is ingrained in our culture and around the world despite being more disruptive and damaging to health.

 

Although I'd loathe the day it would probably make more sense to make alcohol illegal and legalise weed.

Probably just as, but alcohol is already legal and isn't practical to ban, why make it worse?

Edited 21 June 2014 by Webbo

[Haydos]

Probably just as, but alcohol is already legal and isn't practical to ban, why make it worse?

 

I'm not saying it would, I think that would be silly. But I also think there needs to be less hysteria around low-harm drugs. I just think it's amusing when I talk to people that are really anti-drug and they go out every friday and get off their face on vodka.