Legalise cannabis?

[Carl the Llama]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are all sorts of reasons that the answers to those questions are yes, not just a question of legality.

 

Mickey O'Neil, on 01 Jan 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:

 

No chance of blaming your brother for smoking the cannabis? It's not addictive, and it doesn't make you take other drugs.

It's kind of addictive.  But no it isn't a 'gateway'.

[Webbo]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are all sorts of reasons that the answers to those questions are yes, not just a question of legality.

 

By your argument then all the problems we have now are nothing to do with it being illegal.

[ealingfox]

By your argument then all the problems we have now are nothing to do with it being illegal.

 

Not just a question of legality. Of course the black market and everything connected to that is directly related to the law. But having lived in the Netherlands for a year, I don't think cannabis being legal and freely available has been any detriment to their society, and I imagine here would be the same.

Edited 3 January 2014 by ealingfox

[ealingfox]

It's kind of addictive.  But no it isn't a 'gateway'.

 

I accept that you can become dependent on it, but its entirely different to say, heroin addiction. If you build smoking into your routine, sustained use for a long period of time will make it difficult to remove from your routine. Whereas hyper-addictive drugs force you to want more.

[MooseBreath]

Should be legalised along with other 'soft' drugs such as ecstasy (which if controlled would be safer than both alcohol and cannabis), shrooms and possibly LSD.

Tax it to cover the costs of drug education, potential costs to the NHS and any legislation/regulation required, then tax it some more and use the proceeds to either lower income tax or invest in normal state education.

The state has a role to play in preventing people from taking substances which are likely to cause harm like crack cocaine, meth and heroin, but where drugs can usually be taken recreationally with no harm to the user or those around them then I don't really see how state intervention can be justified.

I do believe cannabis is currently a gateway drug but only due to it's legal status. Once you've broken one law to smoke cannabis the legal barrier is suddenly much less of a deterrent. Legalise cannabis and strengthens the barrier between it and harder drugs. Plus there's the opportunity aspect, if you've got a regular weed dealer you're probably not that far away from someone who can fix you up with some skag. Legalise soft drugs and the world of harder drugs is pushed further away from the mainstream.

I'd probably go as far as saying it shouldn't even be taxed beyond that required to pay for the consequences, but I think throwing an extra bit of tax in as a little sweetener such that everyone can benefit is ok in this case.

[sphericalfox]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2548669/Devout-Christian-mother-three-31-woman-Britain-DIE-cannabis-poisoning-smoking-joint-bed.html

 

It's true cos I read about it.

[Fox92]

Been reported across a number of media. Do you not believe it?

Edited 31 January 2014 by Fox92

[Harry - LCFC]

The Mail have been very selective with the way they highlighted that title.

 

"...becomes first woman in Britain to DIE from cannabis poisoning"

 

...but it could also have been:

 

"...becomes FIRST woman in Britain to die from cannabis poisoning"

 

I don't know how harmful cannabis is, just thought that'd be worth pointing out.

[Rincewind]

There would be other factors involved.

[Steven]

 

Bournemouth coroner Mr Sheriff Payne asked Dr Hussein: ‘You are satisfied it was the effects of cannabis that caused her death?’ Dr Hussein replied: ‘Yes sir.’

Very scientific.

[sphericalfox]

Very scientific.

 

precisely

[Webbo]

Very scientific.

Are you a doctor? Are you more qualified than him?

[sphericalfox]

http://norml-uk.org/2014/01/daily-mail-sam-webb-dr-kudair-hussein/

[Steven]

Are you a doctor? Are you more qualified than him?

The B.Sc. after my name means something unlike this doctor. I apply the facts to a situation, not my prejudice.

[sphericalfox]

http://www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/healthharmsfinal-v1.pdf

[Mickey O'Neil]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are all sorts of reasons that the answers to those questions are yes, not just a question of legality.

 

Mickey O'Neil, on 01 Jan 2014 - 4:13 PM, said:

 

No chance of blaming your brother for smoking the cannabis? It's not addictive, and it doesn't make you take other drugs.

Of course my brother is to blame. He chose the drug, the drug didn't choose him. However, the effects of it are appalling and it should be classified higher. I don't buy that argument that it's not addictive & I'm not talking about the people who have a spliff once a month either.

As for all that bollocks that it's safer than alcohol, do me a favour!!! Yes, let's legalise ecstasy and all the others as well!! It's bad enough people drink and drive, those that do drugs and drive are just plain irresponsible and deserve a long prison sentence and a good old bumming in prison.

[Webbo]

The B.Sc. after my name means something unlike this doctor. I apply the facts to a situation, not my prejudice.

What is your B. Sc in?

[Steven]

What is your B. Sc in?

Not Medicine but all scientists should apply the same methodology, observe, generate and test hypotheses. It would seem that the good Pathologist has generated an hypothesis without any suggestion as to how he tested that hypothesis.

Edited 31 January 2014 by Steven

[Carl the Llama]

http://www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/healthharmsfinal-v1.pdf

As well as noting that the alcohol list reads like a Stephen King novel, I thought the following passage from the far more reassuring cannabis section was particularly interesting:

Developmental issues

• suggestion that  regular use may  encourage users  to progress to  other forms of  drug abuse; the  likelihood of this  occurring is more  related to the  lifestyle and  personality of the  individual and  access to sources  of other illicit  drugs than the  effect of  cannabis itself

 

I hope this means the end of the ridiculous gateway theory.

[Webbo]

Not Medicine but all scientists should apply the same methodology, generate and test hypotheses. It would seem that the good Pathologist has generated an hypothesis without any suggestion as to how he tested that hypothesis.

I've got an advanced City and guilds in painting and decorating, I reckon I'm as qualified to judge as you.

 

I don't know whether cannabis caused this woman's death or not but I don't think you've got the right to dismiss the possibility just because it contradicts your prejudice.

[Steven]

I've got an advanced City and guilds in painting and decorating, I reckon I'm as qualified to judge as you.

 

I don't know whether cannabis caused this woman's death or not but I don't think you've got the right to dismiss the possibility just because it contradicts your prejudice.

When I can find an observable, testable, definitive death due to Cannabis then I will let you now. In the meantime I suggest you search the Internet for all the observed, tested and definitive research that has been done that suggests that Cannabis in itself is not a lethal drug.

[Webbo]

When I can find an observable, testable, definitive death due to Cannabis then I will let you now. In the meantime I suggest you search the Internet for all the observed, tested and definitive research that has been done that suggests that Cannabis in itself is not a lethal drug.

If a dead body can't convince you I doubt any amount of research will.

[Steven]

If a dead body can't convince you I doubt any amount of research will.

When there is evidence linking her death to Cannabis then I will be convinced.

[Vacamion]

If a dead body can't convince you I doubt any amount of research will.

 

 

A single death against the millions of users who aren't harmed doesn't prove your case...  there are so many other possible intervening causes. 

 

 

Come back wiith some peer reviewed and published scientific studies which involve statistically signicant numbers and the use of control groups and I might listen.

 

Until then, I'll not draw conclusions from a single case and apply them to the population, like you have done, and like Mickey O'Neil did earlier on this page.

[Bob Weasel Fox]

Heavy cannabis users in my humble opinion usually have severe mental health issues. It's one thing to smoke the odd joint allegedly but another to be a heavy user