Legalise cannabis?

[Webbo]

2 hours ago, ajthefox said:

Bit bonkers that we're having a conversation about whether smoking a plant should be legal or not and whether the government should tax it. It's a plant ffs.

 

For everyone that says it's a gateway drug, what about all the people who have tried/smoke weed but haven't done anything else? I've smoked occasionally with friends for a few years now but have never really had an interest in pills or powders. I know plenty of people who are the same and most of the people I know who have done other things were anything but angels before they smoked weed.

Heroin comes from a plant.

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Heroin comes from a plant.

 

No it doesn't.

 

Opium comes from a plant, and has to be treated chemically to produce heroin, whereas cannabis is psychoactive in its natural state.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

No it doesn't.

 

Opium comes from a plant, and has to be treated chemically to produce heroin, whereas cannabis is psychoactive in its natural state.

Deadly Nightshade is a plant, I wouldn't recommend eating it.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

Deadly Nightshade is a plant, I wouldn't recommend eating it.

 

How is that particular straw man relevant to what I've just posted?

[Webbo]

Just now, Buce said:

 

How is that particular straw man relevant to what I've just posted?

I was replying to this.

Quote

It's a plant ffs.

Just because something is a plant, doesn't make it safe,

[Buce]

Just now, Webbo said:

I was replying to this.

Just because something is a plant, doesn't make it safe,

 

I agree.

 

So why did you quote me?

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

I agree.

 

So why did you quote me?

You quoted me.

[Buce]

Just now, Webbo said:

You quoted me.

 

I corrected your uninformed assertion about heroin - something you failed to acknowledge; instead you then replied to something asserted by someone else.

[Webbo]

Just now, Buce said:

 

I corrected your uninformed assertion about heroin - something you failed to acknowledge; instead you then replied to something asserted by someone else.

It still comes from a plant, it's just been processed a bit, but technically you're right.

[Benguin]

For me, it's not so much the case that I think cannabis is really bad. My major misgivings about legalising the drug is the precedent it sets.

[Benguin]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 15:30, daz*dsb said:

Weed is one of the only drugs of it's kind that grows naturally across the planet and is effective without some form of extraction process / manipulative growing. 

 

It has proven medicinal properties.

 

To think that we've gone out of our way to ban and criminalise a plant that was put on this earth to help us is incredible really. 

 

Maybe 40 years ago when we knew less, perhaps we didn't understand the science but to persevere with this line of thinking with the knowledge we have now is pure stubbornness. 

 

I'm inclined to think that big pharma probably has a massive say in this country - considering they're most likely very deep in the pockets of our politicians.

 

I mean who will buy all of the expensive opiate painkillers, the cancer drugs, the epilepsy drugs and treatments when everyone realises marijuana / CBD is a viable solution without the addiction and the cost? 

I really hope that if they ever do legalise it, they do so only for medicinal purposes with the same stringent regulations prescribing it as things like morphine/codeine etc. The look on the face of the "pot heads" who use this argument will be great.

[Benguin]

On ‎21‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 17:32, Buce said:

 

It's interesting to note that the posters with the least tolerance to legalization (and use in general) are largely Right-wing politically.

No sh*t Sherlock, you've literally just described political compassing. Yes most people on the right have similar views to each other with different and unrelated political issues, likewise do the left.  That's why the left and right are described as 'wings' because they encompass similar thinking.

 

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, Benguin said:

No sh*t Sherlock, you've literally just described political compassing. Yes most people on the right have similar views to each other with different and unrelated political issues, likewise do the left.  That's why the left and right are described as 'wings' because they encompass similar thinking.

 

 

Ok, so you have an opinion, as always.

 

Is it necessary to be such an arse about it?

[Benguin]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Ok, so you have an opinion, as always.

 

Is it necessary to be such an arse about it?

You were clearly being an arse about it in the first place hence I felt the need to reply. Don't like the whole "Oh of course it's the right-wingers who oppose it, so yeah I must be right, go me" attitude.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Benguin said:

You were clearly being an arse about it in the first place hence I felt the need to reply. Don't like the whole "Oh of course it's the right-wingers who oppose it, so yeah I must be right, go me" attitude.

 

Oh, I see.

 

A fvcking keyboard warrior - I might have guessed.

[Benguin]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Oh, I see.

 

A fvcking keyboard warrior - I might have guessed.

I use speech to text.

[ajthefox]

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

No it doesn't.

 

Opium comes from a plant, and has to be treated chemically to produce heroin, whereas cannabis is psychoactive in its natural state.

 

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

Deadly Nightshade is a plant, I wouldn't recommend eating it.

 

 

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

It still comes from a plant, it's just been processed a bit, but technically you're right.

 

Nightshades not illegal to grow or consume though, Webbo, so whether or not you recommend eating it is irrelevant.

 

More to the point, something being what you deem 'safe' is also besides the point, as is your mention of heroin. The two are completely different so I'm not even going there. My point, although maybe poorly articulated is highlighted by what Buce said. You can grow cannabis, do nothing to it and smoke it and I think it's bonkers that it's illegal.

[Finnaldo]

Can anyone actually point out why weed shouldn't be legalised when alcohol is? 

 

And if you can't, are the anti-legalisation posters also pressing for prohibition?

 

For reference, I don't use weed and I've never even tried it. 

[lifted*fox]

On 25/06/2017 at 23:15, Finnaldo said:

Can anyone actually point out why weed shouldn't be legalised when alcohol is? 

 

And if you can't, are the anti-legalisation posters also pressing for prohibition?

 

For reference, I don't use weed and I've never even tried it. 

 

Really, the only reason alcohol isn't illegal is because it's been accepted as a source of inebriation for centuries - as old as time. To be honest, weed has been used in the same way (across the world in different cultures) but it's never (until recently, in some places) got the deserved recognition for it's positive effects. 

 

There have been numerous scientific / medical advisers who have said that if alcohol were something that had only been recently (last 100 years) discovered / synthesised then it would be considered a class B, potentially class A drug - considering the amount of physical and mental damage it can cause to the human body. When looking at drug classifications advisers don't only consider the effects on the individual but the cost on society as a whole (so medical costs, police costs, addiction treatment, linked domestic-abuse numbers, etc.) Alcohol rates very highly on these classifications but it won't get reclassified because of it's history and also it's also a highly taxable product that again, lines the pockets of our governments through big corporations. 

 

Drug advisory counsels have been pushing for the declassification of weeds for years - even so far as the governments drug advisory board disbanded at one stage because the government refused to listen to their advise on reclassification of drugs. 

 

People who make simple arguments such as "my friend went crazy on weed" - well - it's a very uneducated and simplistic argument that fails to take into account many other factors. How many people do we see go crazy on alcohol every weekend? People being sick in the streets, fighting one another, arguing, etc. It's common-place. As I've said many times before - people who suffer with mental problems 'due to cannabis' or go on to try harder drugs 'due to cannabis' were likely that way inclined before. The same as people who can't handle a drink. It's a pre-existing medical / mental disorder bought to the forefront by substance use. 

 

I'd argue that alcohol is a far more dangerous drug (considerably so) than cannabis and it defies logic that most people can't see that.

 

More reading:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/6470090/Three-more-drug-advisers-quit-over-sacking-of-Professor-David-Nutt.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/nov/01/alcohol-more-harmful-than-heroin-crack

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5230006.stm#drugs

 

 

Notice how far up the 'mean harm rating' chart Alcohol and Tobacco are, considering they're legal. Read the link above the graph for more in-depth analysis on why that is. 

Edited 30 June 2017 by daz*dsb

[Guest MattP]

On 6/25/2017 at 23:15, Finnaldo said:

Can anyone actually point out why weed shouldn't be legalised when alcohol is? 

 

And if you can't, are the anti-legalisation posters also pressing for prohibition?

 

For reference, I don't use weed and I've never even tried it. 

Purely because it's been around for ages. If we had never heard of alcohol and it came out tomrrow it would be banned by the end of the weekend.

 

The argument for legalising cannabis has to be better than "something else is worse" though - I'm still on the fence on it, hard one for me as I believe in personal freedom but as I've said before I've seen what the drug has done to one of my friends.

[James.]

19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Purely because it's been around for ages. If we had never heard of alcohol and it came out tomrrow it would be banned by the end of the weekend.

 

The argument for legalising cannabis has to be better than "something else is worse" though - I'm still on the fence on it, hard one for me as I believe in personal freedom but as I've said before I've seen what the drug has done to one of my friends.

I've seen what it can to do friends of mine (and to be completely frank myself) but that's exactly why we need a different approach. Legalise and then invest in education and treatment so people know precisely what they are doing to their bodies and their minds.

 

The global war on and prohibition of drugs will go down as the one of the most catastrophic failures of our time. Fortunately there is every sense that momentum continues to build towards a more pragmatic and sensible approach.

[lifted*fox]

The argument is better than that Matt and I've written about it plenty over the last few posts.

 

Current drug laws and the 'war on drugs' are considered a failure. For the most part they don't stop people who want to try / partake in drugs from doing so - what they do is make it more dangerous. 

 

Take the current spate of 'ecstasy' related deaths / injuries in the news - well actually, it wasn't ecstasy (MDMA) but actually Spice being sold as MDMA. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/30/potentially-lethal-form-of-spice-being-mistaken-for-mdma-police-warn

 

So, let's get testing tables in clubs / city centres. For those who choose to take MDMA - let's give them somewhere to go and get the substance tested before ingesting it. Somewhere immune from policing but somewhere they can check the quality and contents of the powder / crystals they have purchased. MDMA as a drug is actually VERY safe - if it's clean, actually MDMA and ingested in a safe amount. It's the laws that prevent people from buying it safely and in known quantities that is killing people.

 

Not to mention the fact that buying it from 'street-dealers' is always a risk as they're looking to maximise profit on the g's they sell. So sure, why not put Spice in the baggy instead of MDMA. Make some more money, but kill people at the same time? Also, buying from dealers generally tends to fund / cause other unsavoury criminal activity as well - thus taking up more police time. 

 

Make it so that people can purchase MDMA safely and these incidents stop happening. The Netherlands is a good example for this - they have testing tables in clubs and it has reduced incidents significantly. 

 

People need better education on drug use - it's never going away so it's time to try new techniques. If scientists, doctors and police are advising that cannabis should be unclassified then I'm inclined to agree with them as they're professionals on the subject.

 

If government employees are against it then it's because they're worried it'll have a detrimental effect on funding / money supplied to them by big pharma / alcohol companies that are in their pockets.  

 

Again - I absolutely recommend looking into reports coming out of places like Colorado where they're using tax money from cannabis to build schools / fund hospitals and educate on drugs and help people who have fallen foul of hard drug addiction.

 

Our entire society is currently losing out because of our failure to address the way we treat drugs and drug addiction in this country.

[lifted*fox]

Also, note that when I call for legalisation of cannabis I'm not looking to necessarily replicate the Amsterdam / dutch model where all of a sudden people can just wonder into a coffee-shop and get lit.

 

Not that I particularly see any harm in that as Amsterdam functions just fine as it is and I'd love to be able to wonder into my local coffee-shop and have a nice choice of strains to pick from. 

 

But I do realise we have a different type of 'people' in the UK who would potentially abuse such a laid-back approach.

 

I do think we would be in a good position to open up proper dispensaries where people could apply for member cards allowing them to purchase quantities for personal consumption. I also think we're in a good position to allow people to grow up to 3/4 plants in their own home for personal consumption. 

 

Legalisation wouldn't suddenly mean a huge number of people start taking up smoking weed. A few people who've refrained because of their 'respect for the law' might hop on board but I still firmly believe that 90% of people who currently want to smoke weed do so with no regard for the current law any way.

 

 

Edited 30 June 2017 by daz*dsb

[AKCJ]

I don't care either way with this argument but I can't be arsed having to smell it when someone is smoking it.

 

It ****ing stinks.

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I don't care either way with this argument but I can't be arsed having to smell it when someone is smoking it.

 

It ****ing stinks.

 

It's odd how people differ, isn't it?

 

I think it's possibly my favourite smell.