Lesta Legend Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Just curious. When did King ever play as a holding midfield player? When we played the diamond, I don't remember him playing at the base of the diamond. He does get back to make vital clearances at times, but as a regular centre midfielder. That's because your right, he is a standard / attacking midfielder; king a holding midfielder :: hilarious Kings confidence had clearly been knocked for 6 the last season and a half.... if we got koren, clearly would be better for our team but detrimental on a player like king Gally is a squad player, Marshall will definitely keep it that way
MGLCFC Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Some people need to realise you don't have to be some skinhead beast making tackle after tackle to be a holding midfielder. King's way of defending is far more technical and mental. What do you mean Dan - I thought the idea of all good holding midfielders was their ability to put their foot in. Makalele, Derry, Essien, Vierra, Hargreaves, Parker are all decent tackles and get stuck in. It's this side of King's game that is lacking.
MGLCFC Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Hi MGLCFC and okiefox. I do not know how long you have been watching City, but Kings best season for us was the 2010-11 playoff season when he played the holding role as I described in my post. Under Sousa he barely got a game and under Sven he was played well forward. This tactic may have got him a few extra goals (though personally I don't think so) but it also highlighted the weakest parts of his game, ie his lack of creativity and his inability to chase back and effectively hustle the opposition when we lost possession. King is a player who does all his best work in and around the penalty box, ours and theirs. He contributes little defensively in the middle third but deployed correctly, just in front of the back 4, is a huge asset. His attacking play is totally one dimensional but deadly, he makes a run, arrives late and scores goals. Playing him further forward simply shows up his faults and deprives the team of creativity. I've been watching Leicester for over 40 years - King may well do his best work from box to box, but he is not a defensive midfielder - defensive midfielders are happy to sit just in front of the back 4, don't seek glory in scoring goals (Makalele, Hargreaves, Parker, Essien etc), but do an effective job tackling. If you are suggesting this is what King does I would have to disagree. Box to box player, I'd agree.
Lesta Legend Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Box to box player, I'd agree. Exactly Makes more sense, going forward and scoring a shed load of goals would suggest half the time he would be out of position (if holding) - an organized well drilled manager like Pearson would never be that risky defensively... Oakley played the holding part imo.... the position itself is an area we have struggled with since savage
dibbdroid Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 As this thread is about Robert Koren, try to find a video of his goal at Hull and see who whould have closed him down. You will find it was Andy King. Unfortunately he has been off his game for some time going back to post Christmas 2011, whether this is down to fitness, confidence or lack of development we will find out this season.
marbelladave Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 That's because your right, he is a standard / attacking midfielder; king a holding midfielder : : hilarious Kings confidence had clearly been knocked for 6 the last season and a half.... if we got koren, clearly would be better for our team but detrimental on a player like king Where to begin..... A 'standard / attacking midfield player', who does not play in his forwards around the box, does not pull wide and hit them with pinpoint crosses, does not attack the back 4 with the ball at his feet and is not very good tracking back and 'putting his foot in' when we lose possession. If that is your definition of a 'standard / attacking midfield player' then I guess it is true. It is not mine! What do you mean Dan - I thought the idea of all good holding midfielders was their ability to put their foot in. Makalele, Derry, Essien, Vierra, Hargreaves, Parker are all decent tackles and get stuck in. It's this side of King's game that is lacking. There are different ways to play the holding role, ask Deschamps, Xavi, Alonso and the rest. Even among your examples there are different types of player, Makalele does not play anything like Vierra for examples. If you are saying that King is not a midfield 'enforcer', then I would agree...... I've been watching Leicester for over 40 years - King may well do his best work from box to box, but he is not a defensive midfielder - defensive midfielders are happy to sit just in front of the back 4, don't seek glory in scoring goals (Makalele, Hargreaves, Parker, Essien etc), but do an effective job tackling. If you are suggesting this is what King does I would have to disagree. Box to box player, I'd agree. Exactly Makes more sense, going forward and scoring a shed load of goals would suggest half the time he would be out of position (if holding) - an organized well drilled manager like Pearson would never be that risky defensively... Oakley played the holding part imo.... the position itself is an area we have struggled with since savage Sorry MG if I suggested you had not seen much of City, no offence meant..... But again I have to point out that King can hardly be a box to box player when he contributes next to nothing in the middle third. To be fair he does provide 'continuity' by moving the ball on quickly when in possession but he does not get 'stuck in' defensively. This lack of presence has been all the more noticeable in the last couple of seasons when he has been played further forward (mostly by Sven). Under NFP (the first time), when we lost possession King fell back quickly and became an extra defender in front of our back 4, others did the midfield hustling, some better than others. He made a handfull (maybe a couple of handfulls) of forward runs each game and scored a few goals, that did not make him an attacking midfielder. In fact it was only under the 'well drilled manager' that King played in his proper role, both Sven and Sousa (when he gave him a game) played him out of position in more forward roles. It is my view that this constant refusal to play King in his best decision was the main cause (along with his achilles problem) of his failure to develop over the last couple of seasons. And by the way, in the playoff season, when he played, Oakley played on the right, once it became clear that our formation was not working.
marty78 Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Nice post Dave and I agree. A defensive midfielder is not necessarily a tough tackling anchorman and I think King positions himself and reads the game well enough to sit deep. He can still get in the box on occasion, especially at times we are controlling a game but struggling to break someone down. Him sitting deep may also help recycle possession when we run into dead ends by providing deep support.
MGLCFC Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 But all the players I mentioned are good tacklers and good at breaking the play up - IMO I don't believe King is a good tackler or good at breaking play up. Yes he gets back, but a holding midfielder rarely gets up the field making well timed runs into the box, like King likes to do. King seems to spend more time looking to go forward, rather than looking to defend. I don't think you see holding mids play this kind of role, I may be wrong - other examples would be De Jong and Barry who rarely adventure into the opposition box.
marbelladave Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 As this thread is about Robert Koren, try to find a video of his goal at Hull and see who whould have closed him down. You will find it was Andy King. Unfortunately he has been off his game for some time going back to post Christmas 2011, whether this is down to fitness, confidence or lack of development we will find out this season. In the buildup to that goal it was Wellens who was marking Koren and then let himself get pulled towards the ball leaving Koren in acres of space, King tried to close him down but his first time strike was excellent. Had he taken a touch King would have been on him..... Excellent strike by Koren, a lesser player might have taken that touch...... Good player, wouldn't mind him at City but can't see it myself. Don't really think he is NFP's type.
marbelladave Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 But all the players I mentioned are good tacklers and good at breaking the play up - IMO I don't believe King is a good tackler or good at breaking play up. Yes he gets back, but a holding midfielder rarely gets up the field making well timed runs into the box, like King likes to do. King seems to spend more time looking to go forward, rather than looking to defend. I don't think you see holding mids play this kind of role, I may be wrong - other examples would be De Jong and Barry who rarely adventure into the opposition box. King is an excellent tackler but usually only commits himself in and around our box and usually stays on his feet so as not to give away a freekick / penalty. He doesn't break up play in midfield, that is not his game, Oakley did that in league one and Wellens, less effectively, in the playoff season. A holding midfield player can be many things, just take the two you mention, very different players, De Jong is the enforcer and Barry covers, does the tidying up and moves the ball on, very much like King, defensively at least. In the last two seasons King has been played in more forward roles, so yes he has been looking to get forward more than defend and our team performances have been much the poorer for it. Right, enough about King. Let's discuss Wellens... Anytime, your place or mine?......
MGLCFC Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 As I think Pearson signed him for Hull, that would suggest Koren is Pearson's type of player, doesn't it?
MGLCFC Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 King is an excellent tackler I respect your opinion and view, but IMO I just don't see King as an excellent tackler. He has good positional sense and gets his body in the right place, but I would never consider him a good tackler.
wattolcfc Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 This thread getting out of control is Wellens' fault.
marbelladave Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 As I think Pearson signed him for Hull, that would suggest Koren is Pearson's type of player, doesn't it? Didn't know that, thanks for not taking the piss..... I was just going the current trend of NFP signing young, hungry and relatively cheap players, maybe not his type now....... I respect your opinion and view, but IMO I just don't see King as an excellent tackler. He has good positional sense and gets his body in the right place, but I would never consider him a good tackler. I was being pretty specific and referring only to his tackling in and around our box. He stays on his feet and 'nicks' the ball away without much fuss or show, he rarely goes to ground and makes little or no contact with the opposing player. Very good, very 'modern' defending but a lot of people (not you in this case) love to see 'big tackles' and a lot of chasing about and they love the enforcer mentality which is simply not King's game.
marbelladave Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 This thread getting out of control is Wellens' fault. Of course it is, goes without saying....... Nice punctuation BTW...... I'm seriously thinking of becoming the "Grammar Nazi" for next season as the 'Captain' seems to have given it up.....
wattolcfc Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Of course it is, goes without saying....... Nice punctuation BTW...... I'm seriously thinking of becoming the "Grammar Nazi" for next season as the 'Captain' seems to have given it up..... I know, not bad for someone who attended public school!
Burmesefox Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 King Is the most overrated player we have had in recent times. He is an ok chpipnsho player but nothing more. I seriously believe he would improve his game by moving on; he needs a fresh start for his own sake.
Corky Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 King Is the most overrated player we have had in recent times. He is an ok chpipnsho player but nothing more. I seriously believe he would improve his game by moving on; he needs a fresh start for his own sake.
Jimmy Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 Wellens plays better without King in the team the team plays better without Wellens in it ...
Mark_w Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 the team plays better without Wellens in it ... Wellens/Danns was our best combination in CM last year so I don't really know where you get that from.
Jimmy Posted 30 July 2012 Posted 30 July 2012 our best form came when Danns & Drinkwater were together, but continue to believe Wellens is a creative genius if you wish
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