Fox in the North Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Fair play to Roy for trying to explain his reasons.
ScouseFox Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Hodgson made a bit of a mess of his response to the Ox question. Something like "he played very well up against players such as Pirlo and Ambrossini when he was thrown in at the deep end against Milan", despite Pirlo being a Juve player and Ambrosini not playing...
Manwell Pablo Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Yeah! If we had a league that had a minimal amount of foriegn players in it like lets say World and European Champions Spain We'd be fi........ Oh Hold on a minute.
Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Yeah! If we had a league that had a minimal amount of foriegn players in it like lets say World and European Champions Spain We'd be fi........ Oh Hold on a minute. Ok then Or a club that has a youth deveopment program like La Masia. You can't seriously think the foreign invasion to the Premiership (and the lack of our players seeming to want to play elsewhere) hasn't made a significent contribution on the overall quality of our squads over the last few years.....? (and its about 30% in Spain as well, rather than exceeding 50% here).
Manwell Pablo Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Ok then Or a club that has a youth deveopment program like La Masia. You can't seriously think the foreign invasion to the Premiership (and the lack of our players seeming to want to play elsewhere) hasn't made a significent contribution on the overall quality of our squads over the last few years.....? No I completley disagree with you, this foreign players ruin our devlopment a load of spin sh1t fed to you by the media. Since the big money came to the Premier League in 1992 we've performed better in European comps and it has made sure the best English players are playing against the best players in the world week in week out both in domestic and European competition and the ones that aren't good enough end up in the Championship. This lead up to our national side being (on paper) stronger than it has been for decades in 2002-2010, including the 1990 team that over performed in Italy. Unfortuantly it was mismanged and pressurised by over expectation and Ultimatley under performed however still reached three major quarter finals. This is a blip which happens to every country where up and coming players are too young and the old guard are too old to still perform, not that they ever have fully fufilled their potential whilst playing for England. Typical English mentality is to blame something, in this care foriegners, who are getting blamed for everything wrong with English football on this board at the minute and I am getting a bit sick of it.
Ozwin Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 0 assists 0 goals Stuart Downing. I could play for England.
Guest shearfox Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 0 assists 0 goals Stuart Downing. I could play for England. Johnson and Lennon are both ahead of him IMO. Poor decision? we will see....
Tom17LCFC Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Not really bothered bar the inclusions of Downing and Carroll, seriously?? He'd have done a better job picking Lloyd Dyer & David Nugent. Rubbish. One plus point is the inclusion of Chamberlain. Think he could shine when given the chance. Also, what does Richards have to do to get into the team? Seems like every England manager hates him.
Guest MattP Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 No I completley disagree with you, this foreign players ruin our devlopment a load of spin sh1t fed to you by the media. Since the big money came to the Premier League in 1992 we've performed better in European comps and it has made sure the best English players are playing against the best players in the world week in week out both in domestic and European competition and the ones that aren't good enough end up in the Championship. This lead up to our national side being (on paper) stronger than it has been for decades in 2002-2010, including the 1990 team that over performed in Italy. Unfortuantly it was mismanged and pressurised by over expectation and Ultimatley under performed however still reached three major quarter finals. This is a blip which happens to every country where up and coming players are too young and the old guard are too old to still perform, not that they ever have fully fufilled their potential whilst playing for England. Typical English mentality is to blame something, in this care foriegners, who are getting blamed for everything wrong with English football on this board at the minute and I am getting a bit sick of it. Completely disagree. I'm of the firm belief the bigger the pool of talent you have to pick form the better you will be, the more you play the better you get. Why on earth would you rather pick from 250 players of which 150 are bit part players than 400 who are playing every week. Give the cream the chance to rise to the top, you never know what you might discover. Something is wrong when players like Adam Johnston arent even in their club's squad a lot of the time and I really don't see how that can be described as a positive for English football development. I'm not blaming "foriegners" either, I'd rather you didnt label the argument as that as it makes it sound like some sort of xenophobic shite dreamt up by the Sun etc They have a right to play here just as our players have a right to go and play in Spain, France Italy etc and they take part of the blame for not doing so instead choosing to sit on there arse earning a fortune. One of the reasons I've always thought Brazil and Argentina have had so much success if the amount of players they shift out, every 3-4 years Boca, Velez, Sao Paulo, Santos and River etc have another pool of 18-21 year old players coming into a side to start to play together getting regular football before being shipped off to Europe. It's a recipe for success. We all know we need a massive overhaul in England right down to the bald headed guy telling ten year olds to "get the ball up there"on a Sunday morning but we could start with a better attitude towards our own players at the top.
Manwell Pablo Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 This is the point, the cream will always rise to the top, it's the quality of that cream you want to worry about and if the standard of the league is high ala the Premiership the national team will be better where as if the league is poor, the team wont be so good. I'd understand your argument if it had got to the stage where English Managers were having to look at the Championship to make up a good percentage of the squad however that is nowhere near the case, and decent prem players are still missing out. You can disagree all you want you still haven't argued the point that the change in the Premier League has bought about the best English side (I say again on paper) in decades. Adam JOHNSON I would say is good enough and should be in the squad thats an oversight by Hodgson, and if he needs to develop he should of gone somewhere, plenty of Prem teams would take him. If the Premier League is the best league in the world you do not need 250 players playing it, most of which not very well, 150, 100 or even 50, if you have 23 English players performing and playing in the best league in the world then you have your national side. Obviously this is an exaggeration to underline my point you'd obviously need a bit of selection. Gerrard Lampard Terry Cole Rooney Scholes Joe Cole Michael Owen Gary Neville made it through the midst of the foreign talent and it was the standard of our league that made that happen. Brazil have been poor at the last two world cups and have just out performed us and likewise Argentina have not fared much better. The French were disgraceful at the last World Cup, and they have the one of the highest percentages of home grown players playing in their league in Europe. Do you think they are scratching their heads trying to work out what is wrong with their leagues and infrastructure just because they've underperformed for 10 years? The Dutch on the flip side have a very high percentage of foreigners playing in their league and think it comes close to ours and most Spanish starting line ups and littered with above mentioned South Americans whilst a lot of the home grown talent sits on the bench. Yet their currently the two best sides in the world
Kitchandro Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Woy's dropped 3 major clangers for me: Carroll instead of Crouch. Crouch has a good England record and has had a decent season with Stoke. Carroll to date, has had one good half-season with Newcastle in the Premiership. He's had a very poor season and I don't know what he can do that Crouch can't do better. Terry instead of Ferdinand/anyone. I can't understand why you would want someone who has pissed off so many people. IMO Capello was so weak for not sending him home when he undermined him, Gerrard (the captain) and the whole squad at the last world cup by calling his own press-conference and saying how he thought Capello was fvcking things up. And saying Cole was the only player who could open up the defence and all this shit. That's aside from the racism thing, which is bound not to sit right with some of the players (and lets not hide behind the innocent until proven guilty bull, we've all seen the video evidence). Other than that, he's had a very poor season and hasn't played well for England in years, much like his Chelsea teammates Cashley and Lampard. And lastly, Downing instead of Johnson/Lennon. It's inexplicable to take a player who's not only been average at best in the Premier League, but someone who's got not one goal or an assist all season. Ok, Lennon hasn't had the most impressive of seasons, and Johnson hasn't played an awful lot, but christ their records are still better than his, and they are quite obviously much better players, playing in much better teams. The only excuse is if they were both injured (and I'm not aware that they rare) and even if they were, I'd still probably be able to think of better than Downing. It's one of the worst England squads for some time, and still we see the same old tried and tested failures. On the upside, I'm pleased to see Oxlade-Chamberlain and Defoe in, I'd also like to see Wlacott played up front because his finishing is far better than his crossing/decision making, and I'm not exactly inspired by Carroll, Rooney (missing 2 games and unconvincing mentality/form at previous major tournaments) and Welbeck (hasn't particularly impressed me this season).
Kitchandro Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Yes taking the best Centre Half in the country by a mile, what a silly decision What a silly opinion of him you have
Kitchandro Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Disappointed there is no Benson and Hedges this time. I can't believe he left Smallsy out.
Tom17LCFC Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 And lastly, Downing instead of Johnson/Lennon. It's inexplicable to take a player who's not only been average at best in the Premier League, but someone who's got not one goal or an assist all season. Ok, Lennon hasn't had the most impressive of seasons, and Johnson hasn't played an awful lot, but christ their records are still better than his, and they are quite obviously much better players, playing in much better teams. The only excuse is if they were both injured (and I'm not aware that they rare) and even if they were, I'd still probably be able to think of better than Downing. Me and my mate have been discussing this choice the most. I just can't see what logic Hodgson has in picking Downing. You've pointed out the obvious choices like Lennon and Johnson, who like you point out are better players playing in better teams. But what about Scott Sinclair as well. Fantastic season at a decent side, with goals and assists to his name. The more I think about it, the worse I feel. I'm just clinging to the hope that Downing won't get past Young & Walcott/Chamberlain, and will be only be used as back-up.
Kitchandro Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Me and my mate have been discussing this choice the most. I just can't see what logic Hodgson has in picking Downing. You've pointed out the obvious choices like Lennon and Johnson, who like you point out are better players playing in better teams. But what about Scott Sinclair as well. Fantastic season at a decent side, with goals and assists to his name. The more I think about it, the worse I feel. I'm just clinging to the hope that Downing won't get past Young & Walcott/Chamberlain, and will be only be used as back-up. Good point about Sinclair, forgot about him, and his teammate Dyer as well, wouldn't have complained at all if either of them were included.
Christoph Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Shocked to see Downing picked and no Richards? What does that guy have to do to play for England?! I fear he'll never play for us if Walker gets the limelight. And Caroll over Holt or Crouch?! I was really hoping for a nice fresh England team after the constant garabage we get each tournament but this just feels exactly the same as what Capello would have picked. I'm sensing a whole lot of hoofing 4-4-2.
RonnieTodger Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Did anyone see the picture of him holding an England flag? It's been taken down from everywhere so I think it's real. It said "Woy, do I look bovered?" or something like that.
Finnegan Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Forget Carroll and forget Crouch, why should either be picked ahead of Grant Holt? Serious question - what does Carroll have that Holt doesn't, besides a ridiculous transfer fee? Both scored well in the Championship, both had a good first season in the Prem but Holt is currently on form and scoring for fun in a reasonably average side.
ScouseFox Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Forget Carroll and forget Crouch, why should either be picked ahead of Grant Holt? Serious question - what does Carroll have that Holt doesn't, besides a ridiculous transfer fee? Both scored well in the Championship, both had a good first season in the Prem but Holt is currently on form and scoring for fun in a reasonably average side. Hallelujah, someone who's talking sense. Holt should be going, I'm not bothered if he was playing in the 50th tier of English football 8 years ago. This season he's scored more goals than anyone apart from Rooney, got a fair amount of assists, has captained an, as you say, pretty weak team to Premier League safety, has led from the front. He's also got a better record against the top 8 teams in the league than any other English striker (including Rooney), so that ends the "you really think Holt would scare Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc" argument.
Fox92 Posted 16 May 2012 Posted 16 May 2012 Rio Ferdinand is average. I've never watched a game and thought 'wow he is fantastic'. Not fussed he isn't going, I don't even liked him.
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