Scottish Independence Poll

[Webbo]

I said there is plenty more discussion going on, I think it is unlikely but people are discussing it

People discuss lots of things, that doesn't mean it's based on fact.

[Sir Fynwy]

People discuss lots of things, that doesn't mean it's based on fact.

If the government of the day haven't considered this as even an outside possibility they really aren't doing a decent job of preparing for the worst.

[Guest MattP]

Does Owen Jones seriously also think delaying the election by a year (which on the surface seems sensible) woupd actually bring such things about?

Don't think he realises just how apathetic the people of this country are. They can't be arsed to do anything when the politicians sell off the nation's pensions or sovereignty. They sat back and took it when Brown stole our age.

[Webbo]

If the government of the day haven't considered this as even an outside possibility they really aren't doing a decent job of preparing for the worst.

So are you saying that the tories ought to delay the election and you'd be happy with that?

[ADK]

Owen Jones is a pretty poor advert for the left. Extremely cringe worthy. I actually think Rincewind has more credibility.

[Sir Fynwy]

So are you saying that the tories ought to delay the election and you'd be happy with that?

No I'm saying that they should have reviewed whether it was an option, I don't believe it is but I'd expect the government to have better legal advice on the situation.

[ADK]

Surely anything is an option if the right people agree to it?

[Webbo]

Surely anything is an option if the right people agree to it?

It's not an option at all. The date of the election was set as part of the coalition agreement, any attempt to change it would need an act of parliament which virtually no MP would vote for. Any party that attempted it would, rightly, suffer at the subsequent election. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

[notnow john]

The person asserting this was correct. English are about10% of the population up here. We are by a street their biggest 'ethnic minority'.

There are parts of the Nortern remote bits where you are more likely to hear an English accent than a Scottish one.

It comes from people selling a shed in Kent and buying a large estate up here.

We ARE taking 'their' jobs. On a massive scale we are heavily represented in local government, the arts, management etc.

Far more than the couple of percent of Jocks in England.

There are 800,000 Scottish born citizens living In England and

400,000 English born citizens living in Scotland.

[Alf Bentley]

It's not an option at all. The date of the election was set as part of the coalition agreement, any attempt to change it would need an act of parliament which virtually no MP would vote for. Any party that attempted it would, rightly, suffer at the subsequent election. It's a ludicrous suggestion.

 

Likewise, I really can't see the election date being postponed. A sitting government (of any persuasion) arbitrarily extending its own term of office?! That would be an outrage, which would probably rebound on Cameron - and I'm sure he has no intention of doing it, anyway. Whatever our faults, we're a mature democracy, for God's sake, not Bongo-Bongoland ( © UKIP) or FIFA! What sort of precedent would that set...a nice one for any future would-be dictators!

 

It's not just the coalition's legislation on fixed 5-year parliaments, though that is significant and would need to be repealed/amended (can't see there being a Commons majority for that). We've had MAXIMUM 5-year parliaments for more than a century (excluding World Wars) - and MAXIMUM 7-year parliaments for another 200 years before that. We'd be putting the democratic clock back 300 years!

 

Mind you, my assumption was that if the Scots left, there'd immediately be another election in what remains of the UK...but that itself would presumably require an amendment to the coalition's Fixed-Term Parliaments Act. In theory, I suppose the parliament elected in 2015 could serve a 5-year term, but without the Scots MPs once Scotland became independent. But then there's a fair chance that the government might have to change (e.g. if one party lost or gained an overall majority when the Scots left, or a new coalition had to be negotiated due to the balance between the parties).

 

Then there's the prospective independence date. Nothing is set in stone. It's only Salmond who has suggested March 2016, but that would have to be negotiated with the rest of the UK - and could presumably only happen once major issues had been negotiated (division of national debt, division of army, location of nuclear weapons, establishment of border controls, Scottish membership (?) of EU & NATO. division of North Sea oil...). I can't imagine that the "rump UK" would seek to delay the independence date any longer than necessary, as the uncertainty would be bad for the economy & legislative process...but they wouldn't be able to be over-generous to the Scots, either. I imagine they'd be tough, complex negotiations that would last longer than to March 2016....itself a problem for parliament as there'd be little time to legislate for anything other than the Scottish separation!

 

So, we'd probably have a 1-2 year government (of God knows what political persuasion, very possibly a coalition) doing little other than legislate for, and negotiate over the details of Scottish independence, while desperately trying to keep the economy from being seriously derailed by all the political uncertainty. Then, depending on the 2015 election result, we'd either have another general election in 2016/2017 or possibly a change of government without an election for another 3-4 years, depending on the balance of parliamentary forces after the Scots left..... If the government formed in 2015 could no longer command a majority, the Queen could just call on whoever was now in a position to do so.

 

So. based on current polling, we could have a Miliband/Cable coalition government from 2015, switching to a Boris/Farage coalition government from 2017, maybe without a new election. 

 

Hopefully the Scots will vote "No" or we could be in for some massive chaos on both sides of the border....

[Buce]

The latest poll shows the 'No' campaign 8 points ahead.

Edit: 6 points.

[Voll Blau]

Owen Jones is a pretty poor advert for the left. Extremely cringe worthy. I actually think Rincewind has more credibility.

 

Agree. People like him who go around proclaiming how much of a socialist they are all the time and blaming the Tories for everything without actually offering any real solution themselves do more harm than good for any of us whose sympathies lie left of centre.

 

Just perpetuates the idea that all the left are interested in doing is taking the intellectualist high ground and living in a fantasy world where they believe a mass revolt of one of the most tolerant and apathetic peoples on earth could take place at any minute.

[bovril]

Bloody hate Owen Jones and people who share his articles on facebook.

[Sir Fynwy]

Bloody hate Owen Jones and people who share his articles on facebook.

Jones does spend most of his time telling people what he thinks is wrong with everything whilst failing to give decent alternatives but he is now the established left go to rent a quote

[yorkie1999]

The latest poll shows the 'No' campaign 8 points ahead.

Edit: 6 points.

Probably because they conducted it at a post office pension queue instead of Glasgow uni wetherspoons at 2 pints for a pound happy hour

[Vacamion]

There are 800,000 Scottish born citizens living In England and

400,000 English born citizens living in Scotland.

What's your point?

400,000 out of 5 million is a massive 'ethnic minority'.

800,000 (and I''ve read elsewhere it is less than that) out of 55m is a different proposition.

I stand by my original assertion. There are vast swathes of Scotland where there are loads of English who exert quite an influence on life up here.

[PAPA LAZAROU]

What's your point?

400,000 out of 5 million is a massive 'ethnic minority'.

800,000 (and I''ve read elsewhere it is less than that) out of 55m is a different proposition.

I stand by my original assertion. There are vast swathes of Scotland where there are loads of English who exert quite an influence on life up here.

 

Can't quite work out how this has become a " ethnic " debate. On any government forms there is no mention of Scottish or English when they ask your ethnicity just " White British" So as far as I can ascertain there is no difference between us and the Scottish when it comes ethnic background on a legal point. As part of Great Britain I have every right to go and live in any part of that kingdom as do the Scots the welsh and the N. Irish . Only racists like Salmon and his party keep mentioning the the name " English " which gives away his true feelings . 

 

As for your figures of how many Scots live in England it does not take into account the hundreds of thousands of second and third generation Scottish born in England or as some people call them the " plastic Jocks ". The Rod Stewarts of this world , born in London but supporting Celtic and Scotland in every way. There can't be a street or a pub in England that does not have a jock in it all be it " plastic " For the most part no one in England has a problem with that we just accept that it is their heritage and quite rightly they want to keep hold of that.

 

Salmon and the way he and his other English hating consorts have run  this campaign, has  stirred up a lot of negativity from the English towards the Jocks which prior to this election was just the usual English / Jock banter . If they win this vote and want to be treated as foreigners then they should prepare them selves to be treated exactly like that.   

[The Doctor]

There are 800,000 Scottish born citizens living In England and

400,000 English born citizens living in Scotland.

And given the population of the two countries, there's a greater representation of English people in Scotland than scots in England

[PAPA LAZAROU]

And given the population of the two countries, there's a greater representation of English people in Scotland than scots in England

 

And your source for that information is ? and even if true they have every right to be . and would you clarify what you mean by " representation " ? Also I note you completely ignore my post about people born in England who live in England yet claim Scottish  descent , there are millions of them in England.

[Alf Bentley]

Easy to see why Spain, and to a lesser extent France, Belgium and other countries, might make it difficult for an independent Scotland to join the EU....

 

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/1m-catalans-set-for-secession-march-30579399.html

[Rincewind]

Had an email off 'David Cameron' asking me for support in a no vote.

 

1 I do not live in Scotland

2 The email was not from the man himself despite having his mug on my screen and a signiture at the bottom. It was from bulletin mail hich I assume is the publicity office.

[Guest MattP]

Easy to see why Spain, and to a lesser extent France, Belgium and other countries, might make it difficult for an independent Scotland to join the EU....

 

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/1m-catalans-set-for-secession-march-30579399.html

 

I was having a wonder to myself about this the other day, it could open up all sorts of debate about independence, support I believe in the Catalan region already runs at well above 50%.

 

Still, as I have always done and always will, I firmly believe in peoples right to self determination.

 

Had an email off 'David Cameron' asking me for support in a no vote.

 

1 I do not live in Scotland

2 The email was not from the man himself despite having his mug on my screen and a signiture at the bottom. It was from bulletin mail hich I assume is the publicity office.

 

You mean he didn't take the time to actually e-mail you himself? Fcuking Tory bastard. What's he doing with himself?

[Rincewind]

I was having a wonder to myself about this the other day, it could open up all sorts of debate about independence, support I believe in the Catalan region already runs at well above 50%.

 

Still, as I have always done and always will, I firmly believe in peoples right to self determination.

 

 

You mean he didn't take the time to actually e-mail you himself? Fcuking Tory bastard. What's he doing with himself?

I have a good answer for that matt but I think it is too obvious to post.

[Buce]

I have a good answer for that matt but I think it is too obvious to post.

[notnow john]

What's your point?

400,000 out of 5 million is a massive 'ethnic minority'.

800,000 (and I''ve read elsewhere it is less than that) out of 55m is a different proposition.

I stand by my original assertion. There are vast swathes of Scotland where there are loads of English who exert quite an influence on life up here.

It's not a point it's a statistic!