Scottish Independence Poll

[Sir Fynwy]

would Scotland even get the oil? surely at the moment it legally belongs to the UK not Scotland. Yes it's in Scottish waters but I can't see that argument holding up, this is oil we're talking about, Governments fight wars over this stuff! I'd imagine is the UK didn't want to give up the oil there wouldn't be much that Scotland could do about it since if my thinking is correct it never belonged to them in the first place. I think the SNP have overestimated their position on the bargaining table.

There are international laws about territorial waters and ownership of oil fields etc., they would keep the oil fields.

[separator]

would Scotland even get the oil? surely at the moment it legally belongs to the UK not Scotland. Yes it's in Scottish waters but I can't see that argument holding up, this is oil we're talking about, Governments fight wars over this stuff! I'd imagine is the UK didn't want to give up the oil there wouldn't be much that Scotland could do about it since if my thinking is correct it never belonged to them in the first place. I think the SNP have overestimated their position on the bargaining table. 

Scotland may get the oil but they have very little refining capability. I believe there's only the Grangemouth refinery in Scotland. You can't stick crude oil in your tank. There's 5 or 6 refineries in England / Wales. Lots of oil companies get breaks from the UK government for trying to extract heavy oil from the north sea to try and extend its life... will these continue after devolution?

[Nalis]

Can't wait. All my mrs' family will become immigrants in my country. Ha Ha. Be off with you, nasty Scottish mother in law.

Probably the best reason so far

[Sir Fynwy]

Scotland may get the oil but they have very little refining capability. I believe there's only the Grangemouth refinery in Scotland. You can't stick crude oil in your tank. There's 5 or 6 refineries in England / Wales. Lots of oil companies get breaks from the UK government for trying to extract heavy oil from the north sea to try and extend its life... will these continue after devolution?

Grangemouth was on the verge of closing because it is uneconomic recently, as you say, they may have oil but no way to process the stuff.

[separator]

Grangemouth was on the verge of closing because it is uneconomic recently, as you say, they may have oil but no way to process the stuff.

The future of the north sea is heavy oil. All of the 'easy'  free flowing oil has pretty much been extracted. Heavy oil, which is plentiful, but difficult to extract requires huge investment. You need to heat the oil below ground to thin it, and get it out. Takes significant investment, currently being encouraged by the UK government. You have to say that this will drop away if devolution goes ahead. 

[Tielemans63]

Before deciding every Scotsman should be reminded of this:

 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

'Do you wish Scotland to remain in the UK' would have been better.

 

But they would still have to say yes or no in reply to that question ?

[purpleronnie]

Financial analysts in London issued a stark warning that Scotland would plunge into a “deep recession” with a sharp rise in unemployment if the yes vote prevails.

 

[ADK]

Has there ever been an instance where independence has led to disaster?

[Guest MattP]

Has there ever been an instance where independence has led to disaster?

 

North Korea hasn't been great.

[ADK]

North Korea hasn't been great.

 

Depends who you ask.

[Guest MattP]

Depends who you ask.

 

Very true, although this picture says a lot.

 

[leicsmac]

North Korea hasn't been great.

 

Wouldn't class them as independent - they've been in the pockets of the Ruskies and Chinese for as long as they've existed, as much as they preach self-reliance.

 

That said, the South would have a certain amount of trouble without American military aid too.

 

 

Depends who you ask.

 

Yup. 

[Vacamion]

For those of you sick of the UK news being full of this, imagine how we feel up here. 

 

We have had 3 years of this navel gazing.

 

Imagine the good that could have been done if everyone's energies had not been sucked into combatting the fairy stories of the ESSENNPEE.

 

Sad.

[leicsmac]

Very true, although this picture says a lot.

 

 

Still depends on who you ask. If you're one of those who has one of those pinpricks of light to yourself, you're probably very happy.

 

Or you're in a gulag and you've just been caught in a searchlight and are about to be shot. One of the two, anyway.

[johnny the fox]

The uk parties are getting desperate, in full panic mode. offering their daughters to the jocks to stay within the uk..  pathetic. To bring in a "big gun" like gordon fookin brown to save the day proves it..he couldn't turn an election to save his life.. we are all dooomed !      gordon "ive put an end to boom and bust" ..brown.....fook me.

[Guest MattP]

Still depends on who you ask. If you're one of those who has one of those pinpricks of light to yourself, you're probably very happy.

 

Or you're in a gulag and you've just been caught in a searchlight and are about to be shot. One of the two, anyway.

 

Yes I realise that, I was just giving an overall reflection of the two nations.

[leicsmac]

Yes I realise that, I was just giving an overall reflection of the two nations.

 

I know, I was just being a facetious bastard. Been a good weekend. 

 

Back on topic, I still don't think the Yes campaign are going to pull this off, despite the horriffic mismanagement of the No campaign.

[ADK]

I'm still not sure if I would celebrate a yes or not. Keep flip flopping on the idea. Part me thinks it's a shame that we're a recent world superpower that's rapidly disintegrating, on the other hand we won't get anywhere without change.

[Guest MattP]

I know, I was just being a facetious bastard. Been a good weekend. 

 

Back on topic, I still don't think the Yes campaign are going to pull this off, despite the horriffic mismanagement of the No campaign.

 

Given Alistair Darling is the chair and Richard Baker is deputy is it really surprising the no campaign has been a monumental fcuk up?

 

Be interesting to see what external forces they blame this on if it goes tits up.

[Guest]

Given Alistair Darling is the chair and Richard Baker is deputy is it really surprising the no campaign has been a monumental fcuk up?

 

Be interesting to see what external forces they blame this on if it goes tits up.

 

Cameron's plan is to cut Scoland off. There are no conservative voters there.

[Guest MattP]

Cameron's plan is to cut Scoland off. There are no conservative voters there.

 

I wish I'd noticed that before my throwing my weight behind the 'Yes' campaign.

 

It completely passed me by.

[Alf Bentley]

 

Back on topic, I still don't think the Yes campaign are going to pull this off, despite the horrific mismanagement of the No campaign.

 

I don't know.... Apparently, Cameron, Miliband & Clegg are all going up to Scotland together tomorrow, and Farage will be leading a UKIP rally for the Union in Glasgow. All that should give the "Yes" campaign a big boost! 

 

To be fair to Farage, he's probably doing it deliberately to encourage a "Yes" vote, which would allow UKIP south of the border to formally become the English (or English & Anglo-Welsh) party that it essentially is. What the other 3 clowns think they're going to achieve other than handing more votes to Salmond, I don't know.

 

I hate what I've seen of the "No" campaign: scare tactics, Westminster sneering & doom and gloom, no positive vision at all....but maybe those fear tactics will work when people actually enter the polling booth and are faced with a ballot paper?

I know that if I were an undecided voter, all that negativity would make me more likely to vote "Yes"..... "You say we can't do it and we'll fvck it all up?! Well, fvck you, we can do it and we will!" would be my response.

 

I hope they do vote "No", though. Quite apart from potential Anglo-Scottish tensions if there's a "Yes" vote, the rump UK could become as politically polarised as the USA. We all know that there are a lot of right-wingers in England who, deep down, see "English" as a synonym for "Thatcherite" and do not accept people with left-wing sympathies as valid English/UK citizens (aware I'm ignoring Wales & N. Ireland, there, but they'll have little influence next to a country of 50m or whatever).

[Vacamion]

Cameron's plan is to cut Scoland off. There are no conservative voters there.

 

No.  Incorrect.  There are plenty.

 

The last UK general election, in Scottish constituencies, the Conservatives got 412,855 (compare that with SNP: 491,386)

 

It's just that the first past the post system gave labour so many Westminster seats.

[Guest MattP]

I don't know.... Apparently, Cameron, Miliband & Clegg are all going up to Scotland together tomorrow, and Farage will be leading a UKIP rally for the Union in Glasgow. All that should give the "Yes" campaign a big boost! 

 

To be fair to Farage, he's probably doing it deliberately to encourage a "Yes" vote, which would allow UKIP south of the border to formally become the English (or English & Anglo-Welsh) party that it essentially is. What the other 3 clowns think they're going to achieve other than handing more votes to Salmond, I don't know.

 

I hate what I've seen of the "No" campaign: scare tactics, Westminster sneering & doom and gloom, no positive vision at all....but maybe those fear tactics will work when people actually enter the polling booth and are faced with a ballot paper?

I know that if I were an undecided voter, all that negativity would make me more likely to vote "Yes"..... "You say we can't do it and we'll fvck it all up?! Well, fvck you, we can do it and we will!" would be my response.

 

I hope they do vote "No", though. Quite apart from potential Anglo-Scottish tensions if there's a "Yes" vote, the rump UK could become as politically polarised as the USA. We all know that there are a lot of right-wingers in England who, deep down, see "English" as a synonym for "Thatcherite" and do not accept people with left-wing sympathies as valid English/UK citizens (aware I'm ignoring Wales & N. Ireland, there, but they'll have little influence next to a country of 50m or whatever)

 

I thought it was a bit immature for the 'better together' campaign to decide to refuse to let UKIP join it, school playground tactics and given that UKIP got 10.5% of the vote in Scotland it's very possible that segment of society could even be the deciding factor given how close the vote is now.

 

Scare tactics and smear, let's be honest It's all I've come to expect from the Westminster elite these days whether it's campaigning against UKIP, the SNP, the Scots, the Greens etc etc. It seems to be pretty much all they have, I just hope they use the same tactics when it comes to the EU referendum as well.

 

Shall we annex Dumfries, Clydedales and Tweedale if they vote Yes? I think it's the right thing to do given the circumstances, these people have never wanted to live under and Labour/SNP government and given the importance the SNP has put on that factor being part of the Yes vote they surely give them the right to allow it to join England?