Animal rights

[Mark_w]

Read this thread through (over the course of a week), very interesting stuff...

Although in principle I agree with a lot of what ozleicester is saying, I will continue to eat meat. It tastes amazing, and I fail to see the difference that myself alone could make. If there was a guarantee that by stopping eating meat, any less animals would be mistreated, then perhaps I would turn veggie (although a tasty alternative would preferably be on the cards!) However, I am all for the stopping of maltreating animals before they are killed, and am against hunting and bull-fighting.

I really think it should come down to whether you're fine with animals suffering or not. If you think animals shouldn't suffer then you shouldn't be supporting the cause of their suffering whether it's going to make a difference to the problem or not. If you're fine with animals suffering, like plenty on here are, then go ahead and eat meat and don't get too upset when people criticize you for it. But I really don't think you should be condemning the suffering of animals and at the same time financing it.

Maybe you just don't mind animals being murdered all that much, you wouldn't be alone, but don't hide behind lame excuses like 'I can't make a difference' or 'nothing else tastes nice' because it's either not true or not relevant to your decision. The decision to eat meat should not be about whether or not you're making a difference, it should be about whether or not you're okay with animals being killed. Once you've decided whether or not you're fine with animals being killed, you can start to think about what you can do to make a difference, but it shouldn't be the reason for you doing something.

[ozleicester]

The thing is, by me giving up meat, will any less animals be killed?

You will make a difference to that one.

Like any business, "animal producers" (what a grotesque phrase) are trying to make maximum profit for minimum outlay, so they take into account what they sold the previous year and plans for growth etc and number of people being born, dieing and going veg... and they adjust their "production" to suit... it might be 1 chicken.. it might be 5 cows...... it might be next year..or next decade, but yes, you choosing not to eat animals will make a difference.

http://syzygyastro.hubpages.com/hub/Animals-an-Average-Person-Eat-in-a-Lifetime

[theessexfox]

You will make a difference to that one.

Like any business, "animal producers" (what a grotesque phrase) are trying to make maximum profit for minimum outlay, so they take into account what they sold the previous year and plans for growth etc and number of people being born, dieing and going veg... and they adjust their "production" to suit... it might be 1 chicken.. it might be 5 cows...... it might be next year..or next decade, but yes, you choosing not to eat animals will make a difference.

http://syzygyastro.h...t-in-a-Lifetime

I don't believe that they change their amounts to kill based on one person's choice... what Mark said is right, it shouldn't really be about whether I can make a difference by choosing not to eat it, but by me opting out of meat, I think the same amount would be killed.

[ozleicester]

I don't believe that they change their amounts to kill based on one person's choice... what Mark said is right, it shouldn't really be about whether I can make a difference by choosing not to eat it, but by me opting out of meat, I think the same amount would be killed.

No worries - your entitled to your opinion.

Do you think that car makers just randomly make x number of cars?... i think they work out carefully how many they think consumers will buy, the same applies to the production of animals.

Either way - a animal doesnt have to die for your dinner.

[theessexfox]

No worries - your entitled to your opinion.

Do you think that car makers just randomly make x number of cars?... i think they work out carefully how many they think consumers will buy, the same applies to the production of animals.

Either way - a animal doesnt have to die for your dinner.

True, however I think it will be done in thousands rather than dozens.

I guess I can see your principles, and you argue them well, however avoiding cruelty to animals isn't the biggest day-to-day worry I have these days (perhaps one day!) and therefore I eat meat. I respect what you're doing

[MooseBreath]

I tell you what, for every one person who provides evidence that they have become vegetarian as a result of this thread, i'll up my meat intake to make up the balance. That way we won't have to bother the meat producers and they can concentrate on what they do both - killing animals and then carving their dead bodies into juicy, succulent steaks.

[Tempwan Yierban]

We're designed to eat meat.

I'm not going to do myself short or nutrients etc just so I can feel like I'm making a difference (which I won't be)

Of all the high horses to climb on to, they are many more worthy than this, but I like it down here on the ground thanks.

[Mark_w]

We're designed to eat meat.

[Tempwan Yierban]

Great. What's the source? Who designed this table? I might make one with 5 fields each containing one word (albeit in this order to make it easy for you) of this sentence.

HUMANS. EVOLVED. TO. EAT. MATE.

I stupidly previously used the word designed. Clearly we evolved.

Besides if you don't want to eat meat, great, have fun not eating meat. Just shut up about it.

[Mark_w]

Besides if you don't want to eat meat, great, have fun not eating meat. Just shut up about it.

Why should I shut up about it? I think it's wrong.

Feel free to ignore it, but if someone thinks that something is wrong then they've got every right to say so, if you think humans eating meat is fine then I don't see why you can't just ignore it.

[Webbo]

Great. What's the source? Who designed this table? I might make one with 5 fields each containing one word (albeit in this order to make it easy for you) of this sentence.

HUMANS. EVOLVED. TO. EAT. MATE.

I stupidly previously used the word designed. Clearly we evolved.

Besides if you don't want to eat meat, great, have fun not eating meat. Just shut up about it.

We've got to eat our mates?

[21st Century Fox]

We've got to eat our mates?

It said extra pleasure but I found this chewing gum to be very rubbery and not pleasant tasting at all.

[The Doctor]

Great. What's the source? Who designed this table? I might make one with 5 fields each containing one word (albeit in this order to make it easy for you) of this sentence.

HUMANS. EVOLVED. TO. EAT. MATE.

I stupidly previously used the word designed. Clearly we evolved.

Besides if you don't want to eat meat, great, have fun not eating meat. Just shut up about it.

We don't tend to eat our mates chap - I'm not sure what you do in Albania, but cannibalism just isn't cool here.

But, I might just poke one massive hole in what the other chap said - Herbivores can't digest and get nutrients from meat because they aren't supposed to eat it, we can digest meat and get nutrients from it hence, not ****ing herbivores. We are omnivores, no argument.

[Mark_w]

We don't tend to eat our mates chap - I'm not sure what you do in Albania, but cannibalism just isn't cool here.

But, I might just poke one massive hole in what the other chap said - Herbivores can't digest and get nutrients from meat because they aren't supposed to eat it, we can digest meat and get nutrients from it hence, not ****ing herbivores. We are omnivores, no argument.

Fair enough, I've never really looked into it all that much since I don't really care, I just saw it on another forum the other day. It's the whole unnecessarily killing animals thing I really have a problem with.

[The Doctor]

Fair enough, I've never really looked into it all that much since I don't really care, I just saw it on another forum the other day. It's the whole killing animals thing I really have a problem with.

Why? Humans are a bit rubbish as a species - intelligent but feeble, only reason we've survived so long is that we're really fucking good at killing anything that moves.

[Mark_w]

Why? Humans are a bit rubbish as a species - intelligent but feeble, only reason we've survived so long is that we're really ****ing good at killing anything that moves.

We can quite comfortably survive without killing anything that moves in this day and age. I honestly don't think that when we don't need to do it, it's right to take the life of another animal, I don't think the fact that we can kill animals and that humans have done in the past is a good enough reason for someone to think that they have a right to cause suffering to another creature or to end an animals life.

[Guest MattP]

We can quite comfortably survive without killing anything that moves in this day and age. I honestly don't think that when we don't need to do it, it's right to take the life of another animal, I don't think the fact that we can kill animals and that humans have done in the past is a good enough reason for someone to think that they have a right to cause suffering to another creature or to end an animals life.

I think we get that, it's been said 1,000 times in the thread.

Fact is the vast majority don't want to. Meat tastes good, far nicer than anything else and I choose to eat it.

[Mark_w]

I think we get that, it's been said 1,000 times in the thread.

Fact is the vast majority don't want to. Meat tastes good, far nicer than anything else and I choose to eat it.

I think we get that, it's been said (by you) 1,000 times in this thread. Generally accompanied by a picture of an animal carcass, I'm well aware of the fact that you like to eat dead animals.

[Guest MattP]

I think we get that, it's been said (by you) 1,000 times in this thread. Generally accompanied by a picture of an animal carcass, I'm well aware of the fact that you like to eat dead animals.

And alive. Once tried Octapus that was still wriggling.

[purpleronnie]

I think we get that, it's been said 1,000 times in the thread.

Fact is the vast majority don't want to. Meat tastes good, far nicer than anything else and I choose to eat it.

Not sure why but I picture you sitting on a huge throne by an open fire ripping apart a cartoon sized leg of meat with your manly incisors and washing it down with a jug of blood.

[Guest MattP]

Not sure why but I picture you sitting on a huge throne by an open fire ripping apart a cartoon sized leg of meat with your manly incisors and washing it down with a jug of blood.

If I could get away with it I would.

Got a story from Auckland actually, we were putting on a huge BBQ for a few of the people we met over in Sri Lanka and ended up meeting these Americans whilst going out on the piss beforehand so we invited them back .

They were moaning we cooked the meat far too rare so I just pulled out a lamb fillet straight from the packet and started eating it, face on the two of them was priceless as I'm drunkenly tearing apart this rare piece of meat with my teeth and trying to tell them how nice it is.

[Guest MattP]

I'm in a drunken state here but this can't be far away from the cartoon size piece of meat you are imagining.

[purpleronnie]

If I could get away with it I would.

Got a story from Auckland actually, we were putting on a huge BBQ for a few of the people we met over in Sri Lanka and ended up meeting these Americans whilst going out on the piss beforehand so we invited them back .

They were moaning we cooked the meat far too rare so I just pulled out a lamb fillet straight from the packet and started eating it, face on the two of them was priceless as I'm drunkenly tearing apart this rare piece of meat with my teeth and trying to tell them how nice it is.

ha, not sure if this is weird or not but my grandad used to eat raw bacon all the time, he was a beast of a man and a bit of a legend down the pit too , known for his strength, never seem to do him harm but no doubt spending all day down the mines burnt all that off.

I'm in a drunken state here but this can't be far away from the cartoon size piece of meat you are imagining.

[OzFox]

[ozleicester]

If I could get away with it I would.

Got a story from Auckland actually, we were putting on a huge BBQ for a few of the people we met over in Sri Lanka and ended up meeting these Americans whilst going out on the piss beforehand so we invited them back .

They were moaning we cooked the meat far too rare so I just pulled out a lamb fillet straight from the packet and started eating it, face on the two of them was priceless as I'm drunkenly tearing apart this rare piece of meat with my teeth and trying to tell them how nice it is.

wow... really?... awwwwesommmme.

We're designed to eat meat.

I'm not going to do myself short or nutrients etc just so I can feel like I'm making a difference (which I won't be)

Of all the high horses to climb on to, they are many more worthy than this, but I like it down here on the ground thanks.

Designed or created or evolved is irrelevant. there is no need to be short of nutrients.

• Vegetarian foods are a major source of nutrition for most people in the world.
  
• Vegetarians have lower rates of heart disease and some forms of cancer than non-vegetarians.
  
• 
  According to the ADA, vegetarians are at lower risk for developing:
  
  • Heart disease
    
  • Colorectal, ovarian, and breast cancers
    
  • Diabetes
    
  • Obesity
    
  • Hypertension (high blood pressure)
    

http://brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/nutrition_&_eating_concerns/being_a_vegetarian.php

If you think im on a high horse, you have misinterpreted what ive said, and that is my fault, so i apologise.

My simple statement throughout is that, IN MY OPINION (and thats all it is), it is wrong for animals to die for our pleasure.