Animal rights

[Manwell Pablo]

Switching to a diet free of meat, dairy, and eggs saves more carbon emissions than driving a Prius. How much more? 50% more!

 

And you drive a Prius do you So you're a vegan with a balding toothless cat who drives a Prius, there's a sitcom in here somewhere. 

 

Firstly this is obviously made up Oz, you can't come out with such an exact statistic, for a starter it would depend on how much you drive it, and how much meat you eat.

 

Second of all if we aren't using animals "for our pleasure" we'd be using more chemical fertilizer to fertilizer these endless crops you want to plant, as we have no animal fertilizer, and compost isn't going to cut it on a global scale is it ?  And we all know what chemical fertilizer causes don't we? Global warming so you've gone full circle (again, for a change). 

[ozleicester]

And you drive a Prius do you So you're a vegan with a balding toothless cat who drives a Prius, there's a sitcom in here somewhere. 

 

Firstly this is obviously made up Oz, you can't come out with such an exact statistic, for a starter it would depend on how much you drive it, and how much meat you eat.

 

Second of all if we aren't using animals "for our pleasure" we'd be using more chemical fertilizer to fertilizer these endless crops you want to plant, as we have no animal fertilizer, and compost isn't going to cut it on a global scale is it ?  And we all know what chemical fertilizer causes don't we? Global warming so you've gone full circle (again, for a change). 

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

The Prius 50% is of course an average and does not apply to everyone, for example average meat intake in Australia is 111kg per year.... or in the UK is (only) 82kgs per year (careful, with such a small meat intake you could all be turning gay). These figures are of course not exact on an individual level but a reasonable basis for discussion, the Prius statement is similar.

 

• There is research that shows, Pound for pound, beef production generates greenhouse gases that contribute more than 13 times as much to global warming as do the gases emitted from producing chicken. For potatoes, the multiplier is 57. You can see more info here http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger

• Globally the meat industry generates nearly 1/5 of greenhouse gases (GHGs), more than transport .
• In the EU livestock production is responsible for 15% of GHGs and in the UK it's responsible for about 8.5%. But this figure doesn’t take into account emissions resulting from land-use change (primarily forests cleared to grow animal feed or farm livestock).
• WWF’s How Low Can We Goreport showed that emissions from the food sector as a whole rose from 20% to 30% when taking into account land-use change.
• On average, 40% of global grain production is used in livestock feed, although in richer countries the proportion of grain used for animal feed is around 70%
• Water used for livestock production is projected to increase 50% by 2025. It currently accounts for 15% of all irrigated water.
• Producing 1kg of beef requires 15 times as much land as producing 1kg of cereals, and 70 times as much land as 1kg of vegetables

just as an easy to understand guide... here is a picture...

[Manwell Pablo]

Thanks for your interest.

 

The Prius 50% is of course an average and does not apply to everyone, for example average meat intake in Australia is 111kg per year.... or in the UK is (only) 82kgs per year (careful, with such a small meat intake you could all be turning gay). These figures are of course not exact on an individual level but a reasonable basis for discussion, the Prius statement is similar.

 

• There is research that shows, Pound for pound, beef production generates greenhouse gases that contribute more than 13 times as much to global warming as do the gases emitted from producing chicken. For potatoes, the multiplier is 57. You can see more info here http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger

• Globally the meat industry generates nearly 1/5 of greenhouse gases (GHGs), more than transport .
• In the EU livestock production is responsible for 15% of GHGs and in the UK it's responsible for about 8.5%. But this figure doesn’t take into account emissions resulting from land-use change (primarily forests cleared to grow animal feed or farm livestock).
• WWF’s How Low Can We Goreport showed that emissions from the food sector as a whole rose from 20% to 30% when taking into account land-use change.
• On average, 40% of global grain production is used in livestock feed, although in richer countries the proportion of grain used for animal feed is around 70%
• Water used for livestock production is projected to increase 50% by 2025. It currently accounts for 15% of all irrigated water.
• Producing 1kg of beef requires 15 times as much land as producing 1kg of cereals, and 70 times as much land as 1kg of vegetables

just as an easy to understand guide... here is a picture...

 

 

Oz, Animals don't vanish if there is no meat industry you silly boy, they still eat grain and shit Co2, and left to breed by themselves no one can predict how large their numbers will be in comparison to what they are controlled by us, I know your whole argument is based around there being less of them due to us not breeding them, but how much less? How do we enforce this? Cows live for 20 years naturally compared to the 3-5 they do under human control, so even if we don't breed them there will still be plenty of them, no one can say for certain there wont be more in the very long run, in fact it would make sense there would be in this country for example, we're their only natural predators, if nothing eats a prey animal it's numbers will increase until there is not enough food source to support the population.

 

Your argument is garbage, the meat industry might "in theory" might generate 1/5 of all green house gases if your stupid enough to look at it black and white, but in the end, unless you totally cull all farm animals, in the world, they are still going to contribute a decent amount of that 1/5 at the very least, still going to eat a load of grain (unless you suggest starving them?) whether we eat them or not! So therefore no, when you actually engage your brain and think about it, the meat industry is not more damaging than the transport one!

 

And as I say, we're still using more chemical fertilizer, on more crops (we need more than grain to replace meat I'm afraid!)

 

Thanks for the diagram though!

[Rincewind]

If it wasn't for meat farmers would not let farm animals breed like --- farm animals. They sometimes do it artificially anyway so that needle won't be needed. Nor the vet so much so he'll be on short hours.

[Rincewind]

Short enough to be copy pasted but needs crediting writer.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-carnivore-so-would-you-eat-a-testtube-burger-8735103.html

[Jimothy]

[Rincewind]

Another viewpoint on the same subject from a vegetarian.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-vegetarian-so-would-you-eat-a-testtube-burger-8735102.html

 

TBH I'm not sure even the veggie above says they don't understand people who say they don't like meat as its so tasty (from what they remember)

I had some quorn mince the other day but it was in a rice chilli type dish so it had herbs pasta and other flavorings in.

Yesterday I had a gammon steak. I liked both. If the lab version tasted as good and was around the same price I'd have no problem but I am not going to pay £2-3 for a couple of Mc Cartney sausages when I can get a pound of real ones for half the price. Of course there are many types of veggie meals. I like pasta but would I want to live on it?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Animal rights? YES. Stuff the "Human Rights Act", and the  "Political Correctness" trash. The only people who accept them are brain washed idiots.

 

Decency and balanced views, are becoming outcast.  Thank God!  I retain beliefs that I cherish, There are so many others who are the same, and for that I am eternally grateful.

 

Left wing garbage has a great deal to answer for.

[purpleronnie]

Animal rights? YES. Stuff the "Human Rights Act", and the  "Political Correctness" trash. The only people who accept them are brain washed idiots.

 

Decency and balanced views, are becoming outcast.  Thank God!  I retain beliefs that I cherish, There are so many others who are the same, and for that I am eternally grateful.

 

Left wing garbage has a great deal to answer for.

[Rincewind]

I hope others beside those on the left believe in Human rights.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I hope others beside those on the left believe in Human rights.

Sorry Ken, but I have no respect for it, as it has gone from the sublime to the ridiculous.

[Rincewind]

You may be right. Started going downhill when slavery was abolished. And woever thought women were capable of thinking enough to vote.

[Manwell Pablo]

Where has Oz gone anyway,   clearly the embarrassment of his last post has warn off yet

[Rincewind]

Where has Oz gone anyway,   clearly the embarrassment of his last post has warn off yet

 

 

Been eaten by a kangaroo.

[ozleicester]

Dig in folks

 

 

"A damning report by the United Nations shows that today livestock raised for meat uses more than 80% of Earth’s agricultural land and 27% of Earth’s potable water supply. It produces 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions and the massive quantities of manure produced heavily pollute water. Deforestation and degradation of wildlife habitats happens largely in part to create feed crops, and factory farming conditions are breeding grounds for dangerous disease."

 

 

http://theconversation.com/meat-grown-in-labs-is-the-next-logical-step-for-food-production-16092

[ozleicester]

 

Where has Oz gone anyway,   clearly the embarrassment of his last post has warn off yet

 

 

Been eaten by a kangaroo.

 

 Just enjoying life, sorry if my absence caused you concern

[OzFox]

Dig in folks

 

 

"A damning report by the United Nations shows that today livestock raised for meat uses more than 80% of Earth’s agricultural land and 27% of Earth’s potable water supply. It produces 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions and the massive quantities of manure produced heavily pollute water. Deforestation and degradation of wildlife habitats happens largely in part to create feed crops, and factory farming conditions are breeding grounds for dangerous disease."

 

 

http://theconversation.com/meat-grown-in-labs-is-the-next-logical-step-for-food-production-16092

 

The UN. Pffft. What would they know?

 

And what's going to happen to all the pigs and cows if we don't eat them?

 

Blah blah blah...  

[theessexfox]

Dig in folks

 

 

"A damning report by the United Nations shows that today livestock raised for meat uses more than 80% of Earth’s agricultural land and 27% of Earth’s potable water supply. It produces 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions and the massive quantities of manure produced heavily pollute water. Deforestation and degradation of wildlife habitats happens largely in part to create feed crops, and factory farming conditions are breeding grounds for dangerous disease."

 

 

http://theconversation.com/meat-grown-in-labs-is-the-next-logical-step-for-food-production-16092

And this problem would be solved how, if we stopped killing animals for meat?

[Rincewind]

Cows and pigs would be difficult to house train and kept as pets. By eating them we are being kind to them by keeping heir species going.

[OzFox]

And this problem would be solved how, if we stopped killing animals for meat?

 

He linked to an article about growing meat in the lab

 

Cows and pigs would be difficult to house train and kept as pets. By eating them we are being kind to them by keeping heir species going.

 

How jolly noble of us, allowing species to survive and all that. It's what makes us great

[theessexfox]

He linked to an article about growing meat in the lab

 

 

I'm talking about the bit I highlighted, the waste of the animals...

[Darkon84]

Dig in folks

 

 

"A damning report by the United Nations shows that today livestock raised for meat uses more than 80% of Earth’s agricultural land and 27% of Earth’s potable water supply. It produces 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions and the massive quantities of manure produced heavily pollute water. Deforestation and degradation of wildlife habitats happens largely in part to create feed crops, and factory farming conditions are breeding grounds for dangerous disease."

 

 

http://theconversation.com/meat-grown-in-labs-is-the-next-logical-step-for-food-production-16092

 

I wouldn't take the 80% figure at such face value. A huge percentage of that is also used for cropland. You are aware that farming isn't black and white aren't you, it's not just meat or no meat? If you go through the PDF and take even just a fleeting look at the maps, you will see a huge overlap in land uses, so it could easily be said that perhaps 70-80% of Earths agricultural land is also used for crops etc.

 

What about the natural fertilizer industry too, which will uses a huge percentage of the manure from the livestock being bred. I'm assuming you would prefer to use natural fertilizers on your crops, rather than all the man made chemicals and pesticides, which will then seep in to the natural waterways and lead to pollution and degredation of those. Shall we say that 60% of Earths agricultural land is used for the natural fertilizer industry to support crops?

 

Let's not forget leather, wool etc, used in clothing and things of that nature. X% of the Earth's agricultural land is used for clothing and so on and so on.

 

All of a sudden the initial shock percentage doesn't seem as bad as it did at first.

 

As for the potable drinking water supply, that's horseshit for a start, there is no way they have even considered taking in to account the newer underground water supplies discovered under areas such as North Africa. 

 

 

EDIT: I wasn't even searching for this, but it seems pretty relevant... http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2013/aug/05/neonicotinoids-ddt-pesticides-nature

[Houdini Logic]

Dig in folks

 

 

"A damning report by the United Nations shows that today livestock raised for meat uses more than 80% of Earth’s agricultural land and 27% of Earth’s potable water supply. It produces 18% of global greenhouse gas emissions and the massive quantities of manure produced heavily pollute water. Deforestation and degradation of wildlife habitats happens largely in part to create feed crops, and factory farming conditions are breeding grounds for dangerous disease."

 

 

 

...and the reason they use so much land is from years of campaigning for better rights by protesters

[OzFox]

I'm talking about the bit I highlighted, the waste of the animals...

 

 

.

EDIT: I wasn't even searching for this, but it seems pretty relevant... http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2013/aug/05/neonicotinoids-ddt-pesticides-nature

 

Interesting read that, and slightly worrying. Amazing how someone can pour a bit of pesticide down a sink and wipe out 15km of river

 

Over here they've just discovered that one of the weedkillers they've been using contains dioxin, one of the worst toxins known to man. And they've been merrily spraying it on crops, lawns, verges, sports pitches etc for years

[purpleronnie]

The cow's are safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23576143